142 réponses à ce sujet

[Senya]

PMC65 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

Personally, I liked the Anora romance best in Dragon Age: Origins.

That was my favorite romance in the Dragon Age Series to date as well ... Male Warden and Queen Anora.

I liked the softening of her tone in Awakening.

And ti seemed a bit more... stable than the others. 

[The_11thDoctor]

Funny... the OP ask for a normal relationship without all the shenanigans, but that in itself is a normal relationship. There is always problems, dependencies, insecurities, issues, etc. If you experienced a relationship without anything happening for it and no problems, that describes the furthest thing from normal. Opposites attract and with opposites, something is bound to come up that the couple needs to work on in order to stay together. Having issues taken to the extreme or toned down are what makes the romances interesting even if sometimes they are a pain to deal with. Who wants a boring relationship in a piece of entertainment? If you really want that, you can find a corpse of a relationship in real life and walk thru the motions, but how is that fun for anyone? I guess there are people who want a average boring life out there somewhere, but most arent playing video games to experience it. games are entertainment/and or escapism for a reason. But we all are playing games for a reason. Maybe the OP wants a boring relationship to off balance a drama-filled relationship they're dealing with in RL? Who knows?

Happy gaming people.

[AutumnWitch]

Trista Hawke wrote...

OK, I need to clarify myself. If I see the word "boring" one more time, I may scream. Kidding. I enjoyed the relationships in DAO and DA2. But I felt that it became the expectation that my love interests would be severely f*cked up in some capacity or another. I'm not talking about being flawed, having a colorful array of quirks/idiosyncrasies, or simply being eccentric - I'm talking f*cked up. It was enjoyable, but also became the standard. Whether your LI was a murderer, a terrorist, an alcoholic, a nymphomaniac, anti-intimacy, delusional/compulsive liar, or more - it actually began to lose its edge because these over-exaggerated setbacks were commonplace.

What interests me the most about having a "normal" relationship option (e.g. having all the normal setbacks/arguments, coupled with emotional stability, logic, reason, problem solving, compromise, forgiveness, understanding, and a fairly balanced moral compass) is that it truly has not been attempted.

I'd like to see an unlikely "normal relationship" LI too. Say...Thedas' most stable/well adjusted Qunari. Just a random example.

I don't think this would be boring.

I think it would be different.

I agree but I would only add that everyone (no matter how normal) has baggage one way or another, Even the most "well adjusted normal" person you meet will have some issues. That being said, yes I think the issues they gave is (in DA2) for example were pretty extreme and exaggerated. I think though they wanted us to see past the problems and love the person for who they are as some type of test to our ability to see past the surface of people. I like you though would have liked an option for someone who was perhaps less "screwed up". I don't know what is was about DA2 but they were hell bent on making it hard for Hawke to find any happiness.

It was very frustrating because I think in their "quest" to be "dark" and "meaningful" they lost track of the fact that sometimes people to find love/happiness even in the most darkest and hopeless places. Sometimes even more so because when things do get bad people have an inherent need to look for hope.

I think in DA2 (in my case) when her (Hawke's) world was falling apart and it would have been so easy to just tell Merrill to hit the road because of all of her baggage the actual fact that Hawke had to work for it, she had to prove to Merrill that she really loved her, that she had to defend Merrill from all the other companions who thought she was bad news made the relationship even more meaningful. If Merrill had been "normal" I don't think Hawke would have loved her as much because she had to work so hard to make it happen and when it did, it was that much better.

Sorry to digress.

[Boiny Bunny]

In Exile wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...
In ME1 for example, I never felt that any of the 3 romances involved any element of 'love'. They were more like some semblance of an emotional connection formed in trying times, followed by a 'we're-probably-all-going-to-die-in-a-few-hours-so-lets-have-sex' scene. 

I thought DA:O's romances were handled more maturely with respect to the writing, though could be ruined by meta-gaming (giving the companion a ton of gifts at once thus accelerating the romance through most of it's entirety in one camp visit).

How is that not a normal relationship? To me, the idea that relationships have to involve love is weird. Sometimes, the fact that you're (i) really attracted to someone and (ii) you really hit it off personality wise is all that you really need. 

What you're saying is certainly true.  There is no set definition of a relationship, and you certainly don't need 'love' to qualify.  What I wrote there was more an observation of how I interpreted the ME1 romance - I know a number of people thought it was all about love and deep feelings - it's interesting the way different people perceive these things.

I guess the main point of my post though was that it is difficult to frame a 'normal' relationship (whatever that might mean) around extreme circumstances that the vast majority of players will never ever experience (e.g. ME1 racing against the clock to save the universe from complete destruction).  If Shepard and Liara had met as civilians, under non-wartime cicrumstances, perhaps they wouldn't have hit it off at all.  Who knows.  The fact that all of the characters are in extreme danger, and have a massive weight being placed on their collective shoulders puts them in a unique position where relationship bonds are able to be formed, where under normal circumstances they may not.

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 06 novembre 2013 - 05:11 .

[zMataxa]

AutumnWitch wrote...

I think in DA2 (in my case) when her (Hawke's) world was falling apart and it would have been so easy to just tell Merrill to hit the road because of all of her baggage the actual fact that Hawke had to work for it, she had to prove to Merrill that she really loved her, that she had to defend Merrill from all the other companions who thought she was bad news made the relationship even more meaningful. If Merrill had been "normal" I don't think Hawke would have loved her as much because she had to work so hard to make it happen and when it did, it was that much better.

Sorry to digress.

_____________
That's how I enjoyed the character Merril as well.
Actually that made the whole experience seem more normal - with the DA world explaining the other eccentricties.
So I think that "digression" is a great point in this thread.
But you did have to get past the initial impressions and HER eccentricities (which i found sweet and charming in this unique fantasy world).

[PMC65]

Trista Hawke wrote...

OK, I need to clarify myself. If I see the word "boring" one more time, I may scream. Kidding. I enjoyed the relationships in DAO and DA2. But I felt that it became the expectation that my love interests would be severely f*cked up in some capacity or another. I'm not talking about being flawed, having a colorful array of quirks/idiosyncrasies, or simply being eccentric - I'm talking f*cked up. It was enjoyable, but also became the standard. Whether your LI was a murderer, a terrorist, an alcoholic, a nymphomaniac, anti-intimacy, delusional/compulsive liar, or more - it actually began to lose its edge because these over-exaggerated setbacks were commonplace.

What interests me the most about having a "normal" relationship option (e.g. having all the normal setbacks/arguments, coupled with emotional stability, logic, reason, problem solving, compromise, forgiveness, understanding, and a fairly balanced moral compass) is that it truly has not been attempted.

I'd like to see an unlikely "normal relationship" LI too. Say...Thedas' most stable/well adjusted Qunari. Just a random example.

I don't think this would be boring.

I think it would be different.

I know what you mean ... my poor Female Hawke looked at her options and ended the game very single. Everyone might have luggage but these guys all came with full matching sets.

[TheBlackBaron]

Mesina2 wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

The Ashley romance in ME 1 felt normal to me.

But sadly, most people hated her.

This is the part where I'd snark about how many people playing Bioware games don't know what real relationships are like and thus think they're "boring". 

Sterotypes aside, Ash's romance was refreshingly straight forward and free (though not totally divorced from - which would have been just as bad) from her personal baggage in ME1. I like characters like Morrigan and Tali and Garrus, but more romances like hers would be nice. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 06 novembre 2013 - 07:42 .

[Ieldra]

@OP:
I think there needs to be a balance. Not too normal on one hand because that's boring, not too crazy on the other because it feels contrived. If all disputes you have with your LI are trivial then it's boring, and I really don't need to see *any* trivial domestic disputes in my stories to be honest. On the other hand, if your LI is a walking issue it's no fun either.

Having said that, I'm getting really tired of companions entering the story with personality issues which need to be resolved, or where the story suggests they need to be resolved but I don't agree they're issues at all because I like the companion as they are. I like Zevran's story in DAO in part because while he's got a problem to solve, it's not about him as a person but about more external problems like being hunted by the Crows, and I like Leliana's story because while she does enter the story with a personality-affecting problem, you have different options about how to resolve it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 novembre 2013 - 10:08 .

[Dermain]

aang001 wrote...
Opposites attract and with opposites, something is bound to come up that the couple needs to work on in order to stay together.

Just nitpicking here, but opposites do NOT attract opposites. At least not for a healthy relationship. People are generally attracted to people that are similar to themselves (similar activities, interests, past, mental health, etc), and it is rare for people who are opposites in some way to actuall have a long lasting relationship. Usually they end up having irreconciable differences (shocking since they are opposites) causing the relationship to fall apart. This may be why people are dissatified with the current relationsip choices in the previous games since there isn't a character they feel is somehow similar to themselves, but it's entirely possible that there are other explanations.

Carry on.

[LOLandStuff]

Just because Paula Abdul sings about it doesn't make it true.

[wright1978]

Personally i like that companions have their own issues and agendas. I don't want them reduced to bland doting appendages while I'm all for fun normal aspects(like moving in, in DA2) to be included.

[lady_v23]

no thanks. The relationship would not be equal in my eyes.

So I'm the Inquisitor! Leader of the old order, slayer of dragons, conqueror of all!! Oh? You bake pies for a living? awesome! Let's get married.

[fiveforchaos]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

The Ashley romance in ME 1 felt normal to me.

But sadly, most people hated her.

This is the part where I'd snark about how many people playing Bioware games don't know what real relationships are like and thus think they're "boring". 

Sterotypes aside, Ash's romance was refreshingly straight forward and free (though not totally divorced from - which would have been just as bad) from her personal baggage in ME1. I like characters like Morrigan and Tali and Garrus, but more romances like hers would be nice. 

I actually thought Garrus and Kaidan were also fairly reasonable, stable romances as well. I'd argue Tali too, but that relationship has the potential to go down very dark roads in ME3 if you don't play your cards right, plus there's the whole potentially killing her with sex thing. Garrus and Kaidan might have both come into the relationship with a bit of baggage, Garrus somewhat more than Kaidan once ME2 comes around, but as everyone's pointed out, we're not looking for perfect relationships, just ones that aren't quite as over the top as DA:II's. Both relationships involve a lot of open communication from both parties, and there's never really a lot of angst from either side, just some weariness and a lot of leaning on each other's shoulders, but hey the Galaxy's going to hell, what more could you expect?

[Flamingdropbear]

Suprised it took 4 pages for someone to mention Garrus as an example of a potentially stable character to romance, but if you want to look for stable people in a DA game, look at the non romancable characters, eg Varric, Availine and Wynne. All have issues, quirks and the such, but all are relatively stable and you can have a decent conversation with them, about something other than the mission, their quest and their "stick" (eg Anders' Mage rights, Sten and how we are all idiots)

[LOLandStuff]

Jacob was a normal guy with no issues whatsoever and we all know how that turned out. And I'm not speaking of ME3.

[Ianamus]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Jacob was a normal guy with no issues whatsoever and we all know how that turned out. And I'm not speaking of ME3.

His father turned a colony of people into mindless slaves and the women mindless sex slaves. I think he had father issues, at the very least. 

It's not about having no issues at all. It's about not bringing said issues into the relationship- or about coping with those issues in a way that isn't reliant upon the Inquisitor. 

Would a romance with Varric have been "boring"? or Aveline? I don't think so. You don't need somebody fighting against commitment, hating themselves and ending the relationship because they are angsting or struggling against the demon literally possesing them to make a compelling romance story. 

It's not saying that the romance option has no issues or that it's like marrying a baker in a village. You and the LI will presumably fight together- accepting that either of you could die any day. Struggling over the decisions you are making, having disagreements over the right thing to do, recklessly risking your life for each other. Ashley has a brilliant moment when you save her that she is angry at you for saving her over the higher ranking officer for "personal reasons". The romance iself may be stable but the issues that arise from it are addressed. 

I have a real fondness for characters who are strong both physically and mentally, and keep their issues self contained. because then, at extreme moments when death is right in front of them or the one they love and everything is lost you finally see them break, and the contrast between this and the normality before only makes those moments all the more impactful. 

Modifié par EJ107, 07 novembre 2013 - 03:45 .

[nos_astra]

Flamingdropbear wrote...
Suprised it took 4 pages for someone to mention Garrus as an example of a potentially stable character to romance, b...

I feel something about Garrus and the romance is off.

He's a guy without a job who doesn't really seem know what to do with his life.
You can't communicate directly with him because everything you and he say is being translated in real-time.
Human communication relies in facial expressions a lot ... which Garrus can neither do nor understand.
His bodily fluids could kill you and yours could kill him.
It's a relationship between superior and subordinate.
One partner has already died and returned from the dead.

Does this sound like a solid background for an issue-free, stable relationship?

[errant_knight]

I never played the mass effect series, so I can't comment on that, but I thought that the relationships in DA:O weren't too abnormal. Yes, 2 of them had very reasonable intimacy issues, but they could be overcome and the other two did not have any such issues. While I had many problems with DA2, and my Hawke found his companions remarkably unappealing in all respects (except for Varric, whom he had no interest in romancing ), for me, that dovetailed nicely with the fact that his life was a sad thing where every victory collapsed into failure of some kind. It worked that he was isolated, lonely and surrounded by people he didn't really trust (except Varric, lol). I may not be able to say that I liked the game, but it certainly provoked strong emotion. Wouldn't like to be surrounded by that many dysfunctional people again, but it worked for me, that time.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

I am amused by the idea that 'intimacy issues' are as much a dealbreaker as thievery or murder.

[TheKomandorShepard]

errant_knight wrote...

I never played the mass effect series, so I can't comment on that, but I thought that the relationships in DA:O weren't too abnormal.

Well we have crazy religious bard with good gril facade and bit*** behind it.
Crazy bi*** witch who just jump on occasions someone life worse. 
assassin who want just sleep with everything and don't give crap about what he is doing unless that are elves.
Alistair well i can guess that he is most sane LI in entire da.    

[PMC65]

errant_knight wrote...

I never played the mass effect series, so I can't comment on that, but I thought that the relationships in DA:O weren't too abnormal.

Dragon Age: Origins had a good mix for me and even my favorite romance (Queen Anora). If you wanted a little bit of dark bitter you had Morrigan and if you wanted a more medieval traditional there was the Queen. The diffferent type of choices encourage more than one Warden and I have enjoyed the way that even the endings vary from tragic to triumphant for your Warden. So many choices all around.

Dragon Age II didn't have that range and if you were looking for your Hawke to have someone a little more stable (like Aveline or even Varric) than you were SOL. I'm not saying those other relationships should be scrubbed, just others offered to level the field from rocky to hilly. So if possible, can we have variety from tragic, crazy, frisky ... and yes, even sane? Just asking, not demanding.

*I did enjoy Isabel with my rogue male Hawke but my female Mage Hawke was left single. She had no desire for a menage-a-trois relationship with Anders/Justice or a self-loathing, mage-hating Fenris. I can't even role-play a character that would want those kind of relationships ... .  

[Usergnome]

I would love this. Kaidan and Jacob from Mass Effect are awesome for romance. They're NORMAL, good guys.

Meanwhile, you can't have a single conversation with Anders that doesn't involve freeing the mages or Fenris hating mages. It got annoying, you'd think that when you romance them you become more important to them and they focus on you, but they don't change.

And if I'm not romancing Anders... god I hate him. Shut up already about your stupid mages I don't care!!

[Shadow Fox]

I can say that if DAI's romances are all like 2's count me out I'm simply not drawn to dangerous and unhealthy relationships.

[Shophet Palaiologos]

Sounds great but this is Dragon Age so I'm expecting the cast to be Dysfunction Junction.