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[Afro_Explosion]

 Why does the maker have to serve as an antagonist. Do people want  the zealous and fairly hypocritical chantry to go down a peg, and go to kill a god kratos style.I dont think the maker should be an enemy in inquisition I think of him as a flawed all powerful diety thats capable of both good and evil. Share your thoughts on whether you think he's benevolent,  evil or just incompetent and whether you wish to enact some godly justice.

Apologies for my earlier lack of clarification and punctuation

Modifié par mx_keep13, 04 novembre 2013 - 03:11 .

[The Xand]

Because as things stand the Maker is too pure for Dragon Age.

[Maria Caliban]

I assume that the handful of people who I've seen express this sentiment consider battles against gods suitably epic and interesting. I'm not sure it's appropriate for DA, but I'm inclined to agree with them. After all, DA:O couldn't make due with us killing a dragon or the leader of the Darkspawn horde - they needed a twisted dragon looking creature with the soul of a god.

[Si-Shen]

All we know of the Maker is that he is supposed to be a "out of touch" god and as commented, pure and to be honest a bit too perfect. Maybe people just want to see something that shows it is flawed and not so perfect. Honestly I don't expect much in the game though.

[Killdren88]

Si-Shen wrote...

All we know of the Maker is that he is supposed to be a "out of touch" god and as commented, pure and to be honest a bit too perfect. Maybe people just want to see something that shows it is flawed and not so perfect. Honestly I don't expect much in the game though.

I'm gonna wager that eventaully we are gonna have to get him to be in touch again. Slapping sense into him so he can fix all the crap in the world. Then again..If Andraste is having trouble with that I doubt will make much of a difference.

Modifié par Killdren88, 03 novembre 2013 - 03:41 .

[Reznore57]

I don't want the Maker as a antagonist.
I really don't think he exists as the Chantry understands it.
I don't think the Chantry is wrong , there is a higher thing that is the origin of all...It's called Magic.
The Chantry just gave it a bit of personality , but I doubt there's an agenda here.
There is just powerful magic users who shaped the world.
But magic is , or the use of it , is chaotic , it can destroy and it can create.
So finding a balance is necessary , no doubt many have tried , and have earned the "God" title , and many have failed.

[CroGamer002]

Who's to say Makers has to be a person, anyway?

[Volus Warlord]

The people that want the maker as an antagonist are a bunch of misfits that project their personal issues on Dragon Age.

[The Xand]

Volus Warlord wrote...

The people that want the maker as an antagonist are a bunch of misfits that project their personal issues on Dragon Age.

Or people who are dissatisfied at how jarring and out of place the Maker is in the Dragon Age world.

It's obviously some kind of primeval demon.

Modifié par The Xand, 03 novembre 2013 - 03:58 .

[Maria Caliban]

Mesina2 wrote...

Who's to say Makers has to be a person, anyway?

Because personhood is required for things like having responsibility, morality, or personal goals.

You could have a Maker that was only a mindless automaton, but that suggests a person created them, which just moves the Maker back a space. You could also have a creative force of nature that acts with no understanding of its actions, but in that case, why have a god at all?

All and all, I'd say that the Maker has to be a person if it is a god.

Killdren88 wrote...

I'm gonna wager that eventaully we are gonna have to get him to be in touch again. Slapping sense into him so he can fix all the crap in the world. Then again..If Andraste is having trouble with that I doubt will make much of a difference.

That would mean confirming the existence of the Maker, which isn't going to happen.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 03 novembre 2013 - 04:02 .

[DarkDragon777]

Who says the Maker is even real?

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Xand wrote...

Because as things stand the Maker is too pure for Dragon Age.

lol pure well if you talk about pure dic*** then sure damn he didn't do single good thing for thedas only sending blight and having crush on hot girl which she left later to burn.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 03 novembre 2013 - 04:01 .

[Maria Caliban]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Who says the Maker is even real?

No one. But if we're talking about the Maker being an antagonist, we assume he's real for the purpose of the discussion.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 03 novembre 2013 - 04:03 .

[Volus Warlord]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Who says the Maker is even real?

An antagonist that is in the PC's imigination would suit many players very well.

[The Xand]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Because personhood is required for things like having responsibility, morality, or personal goals.

You could have a Maker that was only a mindless automaton, but that suggests a person created them, which just moves the Maker back a space. You could also have a creative force of nature that acts with no understanding of its actions, but in that case, why have a god at all?

It's possible that the gods are just more powerful, different types of demons/spirits with a level of sentience equalling or even surpassing the races of Thedas. Both the elven religion and the Chantry state that they're all holed up in the Black City anyway so that would explain their absence. Except of course Flemeth, who is an ideal candidate for Fen'Harel given that she acts exactly like your average trickster god.

In any case I think his point was that it might not be what you think. A demon perhaps.

Killdren88 wrote...

That would mean confirming the existence of the Maker, which isn't going to happen.

Unless you had an imposter Maker.

Modifié par The Xand, 03 novembre 2013 - 04:06 .

[Maria Caliban]

The Xand wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Because personhood is required for things like having responsibility, morality, or personal goals.

You could have a Maker that was only a mindless automaton, but that suggests a person created them, which just moves the Maker back a space. You could also have a creative force of nature that acts with no understanding of its actions, but in that case, why have a god at all?

It's possible that the gods are just more powerful, different types of demons/spirits with a level of sentience equalling or even surpassing the races of Thedas. Both the elven religion and the Chantry state that they're all holed up in the Black City anyway so that would explain their absence. Except of course Flemeth, who is an ideal candidate for Fen'Harel given that she acts exactly like your average trickster god.

In any case I think his point was that it might not be what you think. A demon perhaps.

How are demons/spirits not people?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 03 novembre 2013 - 04:09 .

[Volus Warlord]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Xand wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Because personhood is required for things like having responsibility, morality, or personal goals.

You could have a Maker that was only a mindless automaton, but that suggests a person created them, which just moves the Maker back a space. You could also have a creative force of nature that acts with no understanding of its actions, but in that case, why have a god at all?

It's possible that the gods are just more powerful, different types of demons/spirits with a level of sentience equalling or even surpassing the races of Thedas. Both the elven religion and the Chantry state that they're all holed up in the Black City anyway so that would explain their absence. Except of course Flemeth, who is an ideal candidate for Fen'Harel given that she acts exactly like your average trickster god.

In any case I think his point was that it might not be what you think. A demon perhaps.

How are demons/spirits not people?

Incorrect # of chromosones and/or non-romancable

[Red Panda]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Xand wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Because personhood is required for things like having responsibility, morality, or personal goals.

You could have a Maker that was only a mindless automaton, but that suggests a person created them, which just moves the Maker back a space. You could also have a creative force of nature that acts with no understanding of its actions, but in that case, why have a god at all?

It's possible that the gods are just more powerful, different types of demons/spirits with a level of sentience equalling or even surpassing the races of Thedas. Both the elven religion and the Chantry state that they're all holed up in the Black City anyway so that would explain their absence. Except of course Flemeth, who is an ideal candidate for Fen'Harel given that she acts exactly like your average trickster god.

In any case I think his point was that it might not be what you think. A demon perhaps.

How are demons/spirits not people?

Incorrect # of chromosones and/or non-romancable

I disagree. Demons/spirits are complete bastards, just like the whole of all Dragon age NPCs.

There's no difference other than the locale.



Were we to take the romanceable part to effect, none but a few party members would be people. The PC wouldn't be a person since you can't romance yourself.

[Volus Warlord]

OperatingWookie wrote...

I disagree. Demons/spirits are complete bastards, just like the whole of all Dragon age NPCs.

There's no difference other than the locale.



Were we to take the romanceable part to effect, none but a few party members would be people.

The locale is difference enough. And you're ignoring half the argument.

The PC wouldn't be a person since you can't romance yourself.

Nonsense. 

[Vulpe]

The Xand wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

The people that want the maker as an antagonist are a bunch of misfits that project their personal issues on Dragon Age.

Or people who are dissatisfied at how jarring and out of place the Maker is in the Dragon Age world.

It's obviously some kind of primeval demon.

@The Xand - I wouldn't go around and preach a theory as an absolute truth. We know so little about the Maker,Fade,Veil, spirits etc. Remember that the world's lore is out of our hands and that any assumption and theory that the BSN community creates it's just a theory until someone who is actively responsible with the story and lore development, like Mr. Gaider and the rest of the writing team, presents us with some new official information that might approve/demolish it or at least give us hints regarding the real nature of a certain element in the role. 
Try to mantain a grain of doupt and uncertainty regarding the lore related speculations. It will be better for everyone on the long run .

@Volus Warlord

You don't have to be a "misfit with personal issues" to think that the Maker might be more than it seems. We have a lot of fantasy settings where the gods are malevolent or indifferent towards the world they "live" in. Now , if the Maker would make a good antagonist ? Is he not an actual god and/or is he evil ? Maybe, maybe not. One thing is for certain - it would be a shame and quite boring to not add more on his concept.They don't have to bring forth mind blowing things, they can easily develop and add to it without having to give up on the mistery, on the contrary - it will help enrich it.

[Vulpe]

double post

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 03 novembre 2013 - 04:25 .

[Red Panda]

Volus Warlord wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

I disagree. Demons/spirits are complete bastards, just like the whole of all Dragon age NPCs.

There's no difference other than the locale.



Were we to take the romanceable part to effect, none but a few party members would be people.

The locale is difference enough. And you're ignoring half the argument.

The PC wouldn't be a person since you can't romance yourself.

Nonsense. 

Denizens of the fade have all the mental faculties a human has and more.

Why are you hating on them?

[nightscrawl]

I should think the reason was obvious: people want to fight God, or a god.

I think the idea is absurd. The whole point of having the Maker (God) in your fictional universe is to serve as the same function as God in our real world: to be the foundation of a belief system that has had an influence on society for centuries. Whether for good or ill, the Maker is a plot device that has far reaching and long lasting effects, much farther than the simple one-shot of being the antagonist for a single game.





And... in before lockdown.

[Han Shot First]

If any gods are revealed to be real, the player shouldn't have the option of fighting and destroying them. I have zero interest in a Mary Sue player character who is more powerful than the gods. If there are entities that actually created the world and everything in it, those same entities should be capable of destroying the player character with a single thought.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 03 novembre 2013 - 04:50 .