The Xand wrote...
Bioware always seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't. I think people just need to let them tell their own story, rather than going nuts when a story isn't told as they'd expected it to.
_________AresKeith wrote...
The Xand wrote...
Bioware always seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't. I think people just need to let them tell their own story, rather than going nuts when a story isn't told as they'd expected it to.
Then maybe you and others should Bioware keep The Maker ambiguous like THEY want instead of wanting him to be evil and try to fight him
zMataxa wrote...
The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
zMataxa wrote...
____________Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
The Maker fits just fine into the World of Dragon Age. But the nature of the gods of the setting are not the central theme of Dragon Age. The story is not about them. It's about their worshipers.
Not so far. But it could be setting up for it.
ME series - that Bioware studio in general is not afraid to tackle the biggest questions.
At the very least, it sure got people talking.
I think people forget - that at the end of the day - they're just looking for stimulation.
And the best kind is sometimes in line with Nietsche's expression "what deson't kill you makes you stronger".
That's how I see the ME3 ending and possibly how this whole Maker theme could play out.
That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but that deosn't mean you should actively find things that kill you and try to get more of them.
Mass effect had a terrible ending, arguably one of the most rushed and incoherent since AI, but without the foced warm and fuzzies so you're just left with wondering what the creators were smoking when they came up with this.
I really don't want dragon age to become the next big dissapointment in gaming.
____________
I don't want that disappointment either.
I honestly can't see that happening.
It would only possibly be a disappointement to some fans - depending how much they evolve the story behind the various factions. Some people consider it more than a game.
It affirms there whole view of life and how it should be.
The double-edged sword of Bioware games.
zMataxa wrote...
_________
Not necessarily EVIL.
Just with flaws like most things in the universe.
The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
"Some fans" so you mean an overwhealming number of them?
If bioware could write a WTF ending really well, that left people feeling confused in a good way, there wouldn't have been such a negative backlash. As it stands, bioware's method for WTF-ery is for the main character to stand akwardly in place while another character exposites to them, with minimal input from the player and no right to actually question anything in the game all about picking what you say to people.
And that's just the delivery, which is done in shot reverse shot conversation of exposition, character walks here, protag character follows, stop, pan, shot reverse shot again conversation again. Not to mention I feel the way they'd deliver ther message is,
Maker: Hello
Protag: Who are you?
Maker: I'm the maker.
Protag: The maker? A. No way. B. Can't be. C. Don't believe it.
Maker: Yes, I am the maker.
Protag: What is it you do.
Maker: Well, I do this, and that, and some of this, and some of that. Allow me to explain it to you in vague, yet horribly blade dialouge in a monotone, just to show how I little I actually care.
Protag: Wha? No Way! A. Tell me about the darkspawn, B. Tell me about the chantry. C. Tell me about andraste.
Maker: I have no time to answer, but let me answer you anyway with half an answer.
The Xand wrote...
The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
"Some fans" so you mean an overwhealming number of them?
If bioware could write a WTF ending really well, that left people feeling confused in a good way, there wouldn't have been such a negative backlash. As it stands, bioware's method for WTF-ery is for the main character to stand akwardly in place while another character exposites to them, with minimal input from the player and no right to actually question anything in the game all about picking what you say to people.
And that's just the delivery, which is done in shot reverse shot conversation of exposition, character walks here, protag character follows, stop, pan, shot reverse shot again conversation again. Not to mention I feel the way they'd deliver ther message is,
Maker: Hello
Protag: Who are you?
Maker: I'm the maker.
Protag: The maker? A. No way. B. Can't be. C. Don't believe it.
Maker: Yes, I am the maker.
Protag: What is it you do.
Maker: Well, I do this, and that, and some of this, and some of that. Allow me to explain it to you in vague, yet horribly blade dialouge in a monotone, just to show how I little I actually care.
Protag: Wha? No Way! A. Tell me about the darkspawn, B. Tell me about the chantry. C. Tell me about andraste.
Maker: I have no time to answer, but let me answer you anyway with half an answer.
More answers than you'd get from real world gods anyway. Satisfied/10.
I've literally had this opinion since the beginning of this threadzMataxa wrote...
_________AresKeith wrote...
The Xand wrote...
Bioware always seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't. I think people just need to let them tell their own story, rather than going nuts when a story isn't told as they'd expected it to.
Then maybe you and others should Bioware keep The Maker ambiguous like THEY want instead of wanting him to be evil and try to fight him
Not necessarily EVIL.
Just with flaws like most things in the universe.
Modifié par mx_keep13, 03 novembre 2013 - 10:14 .
Volus Warlord wrote...
Maria Caliban wrote...
How are demons/spirits not people?The Xand wrote...
Maria Caliban wrote...
Because personhood is required for things like having responsibility, morality, or personal goals.
You could have a Maker that was only a mindless automaton, but that suggests a person created them, which just moves the Maker back a space. You could also have a creative force of nature that acts with no understanding of its actions, but in that case, why have a god at all?
It's possible that the gods are just more powerful, different types of demons/spirits with a level of sentience equalling or even surpassing the races of Thedas. Both the elven religion and the Chantry state that they're all holed up in the Black City anyway so that would explain their absence. Except of course Flemeth, who is an ideal candidate for Fen'Harel given that she acts exactly like your average trickster god.
In any case I think his point was that it might not be what you think. A demon perhaps.
Incorrect # of chromosones and/or non-romancable
mx_keep13 wrote...
I'vezMataxa wrote...
_________AresKeith wrote...
The Xand wrote...
Bioware
always seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't. I think
people just need to let them tell their own story, rather than going
nuts when a story isn't told as they'd expected it to.
Then
maybe you and others should Bioware keep The Maker ambiguous like THEY
want instead of wanting him to be evil and try to fight him
Not necessarily EVIL.
Just with flaws like most things in the universe.
literally had this opinion since the beginning of this thread but NO
he has to be good or evil,only Xand an I have read preacher come on
Modifié par The Xand, 03 novembre 2013 - 09:41 .
mx_keep13 wrote...
Well the maker is pretty flawed and has emotions considering he abadonded humanity twice out of grief and jealousy
Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 03 novembre 2013 - 10:05 .
The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
When was the first time? And why should I care about preacher?
_____________The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
"Some fans" so you mean an overwhealming number of them?
If bioware could write a WTF ending really well, that left people feeling confused in a good way, there wouldn't have been such a negative backlash. As it stands, bioware's method for WTF-ery is for the main character to stand akwardly in place while another character exposites to them, with minimal input from the player and no right to actually question anything in the game all about picking what you say to people.
And that's just the delivery, which is done in shot reverse shot conversation of exposition, character walks here, protag character follows, stop, pan, shot reverse shot again conversation again. Not to mention I feel the way they'd deliver ther message is,
Maker: Hello
Protag: Who are you?
Maker: I'm the maker.
Protag: The maker? A. No way. B. Can't be. C. Don't believe it.
Maker: Yes, I am the maker.
Protag: What is it you do.
Maker: Well, I do this, and that, and some of this, and some of that. Allow me to explain it to you in vague, yet horribly blade dialouge in a monotone, just to show how I little I actually care.
Protag: Wha? No Way! A. Tell me about the darkspawn, B. Tell me about the chantry. C. Tell me about andraste.
Maker: I have no time to answer, but let me answer you anyway with half an answer.
Modifié par zMataxa, 03 novembre 2013 - 10:13 .
the first time was when humanity turned to the old gods for blood magicThe Flying Grey Warden wrote...
When was the first time? And why should I care about preacher?
mx_keep13 wrote...
I've literally had this opinion since the beginning of this thread but NO he has to be good or evil,only Xand an I have read preacher come onzMataxa wrote...
_________AresKeith wrote...
The Xand wrote...
Bioware always seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't. I think people just need to let them tell their own story, rather than going nuts when a story isn't told as they'd expected it to.
Then maybe you and others should Bioware keep The Maker ambiguous like THEY want instead of wanting him to be evil and try to fight him
Not necessarily EVIL.
Just with flaws like most things in the universe.
zMataxa wrote...
PS. I'm still choking on the number of mages that turned "Unbalanced". (And yeah that's putting it mildly.)
disregard that that was a rantzMataxa wrote...
mx_keep13 wrote...
I've literally had this opinion since the beginning of this thread but NO he has to be good or evil,only Xand an I have read preacher come onzMataxa wrote...
_________AresKeith wrote...
The Xand wrote...
Bioware always seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't. I think people just need to let them tell their own story, rather than going nuts when a story isn't told as they'd expected it to.
Then maybe you and others should Bioware keep The Maker ambiguous like THEY want instead of wanting him to be evil and try to fight him
Not necessarily EVIL.
Just with flaws like most things in the universe.
Could you elaborate?
I don't get the last bit.
_______The Xand wrote...
zMataxa wrote...
PS. I'm still choking on the number of mages that turned "Unbalanced". (And yeah that's putting it mildly.)
I think Warhammer 40k trained me to sort of expect mages to invariably go fubar at some point.
I think a qunari inquisitor would have a problem with that quirkzMataxa wrote...
_______The Xand wrote...
zMataxa wrote...
PS. I'm still choking on the number of mages that turned "Unbalanced". (And yeah that's putting it mildly.)
I think Warhammer 40k trained me to sort of expect mages to invariably go fubar at some point.
That's unfortunate.
True. Even Wynne who is mentally balanced has a handicap (the spirit).
A Request to Bioware: make a mage who by virtue of their personality and likes - is a healthier role model, and their own personality keeps them in check. But maybe keep them on the sideline of the story, so their normalcy doesn't get too much in the way of drama.
Her/his only quirks - are likes roast nugs and likes to drink brandy from Quanari horns because of the aesthetic.
___________mx_keep13 wrote...
I think a qunari inquisitor would have a problem with that quirk
Modifié par zMataxa, 03 novembre 2013 - 10:44 .
Boiny Bunny wrote...
I'd rather not see the Maker as an antagonist. Mainly because I just find plots where the PC manages to somehow kill a god at the end of the game (in particular, the Maker is the god of all gods, the ultimate omnipotent being in the DA universe, if he/she/it even exists) to be utterly ridiculous.
I can only presume that if the Maker does indeed exist, and wanted to do something nasty, like say destroy all of Thedas, he/she/it could blink and it would be so. No need to tear the veil or let demons invade, etc.
Modifié par The Xand, 04 novembre 2013 - 12:08 .
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Indeed.ATiBotka wrote...
The Maker doesn't exist.
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