455 réponses à ce sujet

[The Xand]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

The Maker doesn't exist.

Indeed.

I've often wondered if maybe the Black City was man-made. Or at least created by one of the sentient races. What if the Tevinters were too late to the party and chucked out?

[Br3admax]

The Xand wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I'd rather not see the Maker as an antagonist. Mainly because I just find plots where the PC manages to somehow kill a god at the end of the game (in particular, the Maker is the god of all gods, the ultimate omnipotent being in the DA universe, if he/she/it even exists) to be utterly ridiculous.

I can only presume that if the Maker does indeed exist, and wanted to do something nasty, like say destroy all of Thedas, he/she/it could blink and it would be so. No need to tear the veil or let demons invade, etc.

That's only if you believe what the Chantry tells you, which is what they've been told by the Maker itself.

The Maker doesn't talk to anyone. Figments of the imagination aren't really there.

I keep telling my friends how awesome I am, and they in turn (presumably) tell others how awesome I am. That doesn't necessarily make it true.

Yeah...um...just...wow, yeah...

[The Xand]

Br3ad wrote...

The Xand wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I'd rather not see the Maker as an antagonist. Mainly because I just find plots where the PC manages to somehow kill a god at the end of the game (in particular, the Maker is the god of all gods, the ultimate omnipotent being in the DA universe, if he/she/it even exists) to be utterly ridiculous.

I can only presume that if the Maker does indeed exist, and wanted to do something nasty, like say destroy all of Thedas, he/she/it could blink and it would be so. No need to tear the veil or let demons invade, etc.

That's only if you believe what the Chantry tells you, which is what they've been told by the Maker itself.

The Maker doesn't talk to anyone. Figments of the imagination aren't really there.

I keep telling my friends how awesome I am, and they in turn (presumably) tell others how awesome I am. That doesn't necessarily make it true.

Yeah...um...just...wow, yeah...

Tell me it's true.

[Afro_Explosion]

The Xand wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

The Xand wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I'd rather not see the Maker as an antagonist. Mainly because I just find plots where the PC manages to somehow kill a god at the end of the game (in particular, the Maker is the god of all gods, the ultimate omnipotent being in the DA universe, if he/she/it even exists) to be utterly ridiculous.

I can only presume that if the Maker does indeed exist, and wanted to do something nasty, like say destroy all of Thedas, he/she/it could blink and it would be so. No need to tear the veil or let demons invade, etc.

That's only if you believe what the Chantry tells you, which is what they've been told by the Maker itself.

The Maker doesn't talk to anyone. Figments of the imagination aren't really there.

I keep telling my friends how awesome I am, and they in turn (presumably) tell others how awesome I am. That doesn't necessarily make it true.

Yeah...um...just...wow, yeah...

Tell me it's true.

What point was he trying to make

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

so we can go home and be happy atheist

[Afro_Explosion]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

so we can go home and be happy atheist

what if were not atheists

[RobRam10]

mx_keep13 wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

so we can go home and be happy atheist

what if were not atheists

But what if we are? Think of the posibilities!

[Afro_Explosion]

RobRam10 wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

so we can go home and be happy atheist

what if were not atheists

But what if we are? Think of the posibilities!

The only possibility is that that the cake isn't a lie

[Nightdragon8]

mx_keep13 wrote...

 Why does the maker have to serve as an antagonist do we want  the chantry to be wrong and go to kill a god kratos style dont think the maker should be an enemy in inquisition I think of him as a flawed all powerful diety thats not entirely good or evil and has a personality disorder 

why does anything have to serve as an antagonist... it should be just that one game that has no story and is just a vitrual showroom. why do we need darkspawn why do we need. X, Y, Z. ..

the real question should be "why not" its fiction.

[Boiny Bunny]

The Xand wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I'd rather not see the Maker as an antagonist. Mainly because I just find plots where the PC manages to somehow kill a god at the end of the game (in particular, the Maker is the god of all gods, the ultimate omnipotent being in the DA universe, if he/she/it even exists) to be utterly ridiculous.

I can only presume that if the Maker does indeed exist, and wanted to do something nasty, like say destroy all of Thedas, he/she/it could blink and it would be so. No need to tear the veil or let demons invade, etc.

That's only if you believe what the Chantry tells you, which is what they've been told by the Maker itself.

I keep telling my friends how awesome I am, and they in turn (presumably) tell others how awesome I am. That doesn't necessarily make it true.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  This topic is assuming that the Maker which the Chantry refers to is in fact real.

If you want to discuss a hypothetical non-omnipotent being, who is posing as the Maker which the Chantry refers to, being the antagonist of DA:I, you'll need a new thread.

[The Xand]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  This topic is assuming that the Maker which the Chantry refers to is in fact real.

If you want to discuss a hypothetical non-omnipotent being, who is posing as the Maker which the Chantry refers to, being the antagonist of DA:I, you'll need a new thread.

The topic assumes nothing of the sort, and neither does the official lore.

[Plaintiff]

I don't want the Maker to be an antagonist.

I want him to not be real.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

I would prefer this can of worms remain as it should be, ambiguous and without chewing more holes into the plot then termines in a 2X4.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 04 novembre 2013 - 02:37 .

[The Xand]

I wish there was a poll to prove how much people agree with me.

[zMataxa]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  This topic is assuming that the Maker which the Chantry refers to is in fact real.

If you want to discuss a hypothetical non-omnipotent being, who is posing as the Maker which the Chantry refers to, being the antagonist of DA:I, you'll need a new thread.

__________

The OP asks 'why make the Maker an antagonist' and then goes on to state what he THINKS the Maker is.
He does NOT say - assuming that the Maker is beyond dispute a deity - why then do people want to make ther Maker an antagonist.

So discussing that the Maker may actually just be a Political Gambit etc. is in line with the OP's statement (intent I cannot say for sure - as Masterscribe pointed out the punctuation needed a bit work so perhaps the initial post was rushed).  Nevertheless, it's a great topic for those who wonder out loud about the Maker in Shades of Grey.

[zMataxa]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

I would prefer this can of worms remain as it should be, ambiguous and without chewing more holes into the plot then termines in a 2X4.

______________

It's certainly the safe course of action.
I would hope to see more fuel added to the speculation about the existence of the Maker.
Afterall, controversy often sells.

[Afro_Explosion]

zMataxa wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

I would prefer this can of worms remain as it should be, ambiguous and without chewing more holes into the plot then termines in a 2X4.

______________

It's certainly the safe course of action.
I would hope to see more fuel added to the speculation about the existence of the Maker.
Afterall, controversy often sells.

Screw safe burn the unbelievers 

[The Xand]

mx_keep13 wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

I would prefer this can of worms remain as it should be, ambiguous and without chewing more holes into the plot then termines in a 2X4.

______________

It's certainly the safe course of action.
I would hope to see more fuel added to the speculation about the existence of the Maker.
Afterall, controversy often sells.

Screw safe burn the unbelievers 

zMataxa wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

I
would prefer this can of worms remain as it should be, ambiguous and
without chewing more holes into the plot then termines in a 2X4.

______________

It's certainly the safe course of action.
I would hope to see more fuel added to the speculation about the existence of the Maker.
Afterall, controversy often sells.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

I just want to see them do something creative rather than play it safe with the usual grand unknowable uber benevolent being of modern Christianity. Their god was so much cooler when he was in full Old Testament mode. Much more flavoursome character. That's probably why atheist takes on theology in fantasy works tend to be much more interesting and creative.

[Volus Warlord]

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't want the Maker to be an antagonist.

I want him to not be real.

You cannot both hate and deny the Maker.

[TheBlackBaron]

Because people apparently need to use video games to work out their real life religious issues.

[Boiny Bunny]

zMataxa wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  This topic is assuming that the Maker which the Chantry refers to is in fact real.

If you want to discuss a hypothetical non-omnipotent being, who is posing as the Maker which the Chantry refers to, being the antagonist of DA:I, you'll need a new thread.

__________

The OP asks 'why make the Maker an antagonist' and then goes on to state what he THINKS the Maker is.
He does NOT say - assuming that the Maker is beyond dispute a deity - why then do people want to make ther Maker an antagonist.

So discussing that the Maker may actually just be a Political Gambit etc. is in line with the OP's statement (intent I cannot say for sure - as Masterscribe pointed out the punctuation needed a bit work so perhaps the initial post was rushed).  Nevertheless, it's a great topic for those who wonder out loud about the Maker in Shades of Grey.

Sorry if I'm causing confusion - my wording above could have been clearer perhaps.  Capitalisation is important here.

As far as I'm aware (though correct me if I'm wrong) 'The Maker' is an entity and phrase entirely defined by the Chantry.  As such, any and all references to 'The Maker' automatically fall under the Chantry's definition of 'The Maker'.  That said, in a broader context, the phrase 'the maker' (lower case) could be taken to mean 'the being who created Thedas (plus whatever lies beyond) and it's inhabitants', in which case it wouldn't have to meet the Chantry definition.  But, as I see it, if 'the maker' (lower case) is not 'The Maker', then 'The Maker' does not exist, and the Chantry are wrong - meaning it is impossible for 'The Maker' to be the antagonist.

The OP is expressing an opinion on 'The Maker's' personality - not whether or not 'He' exists.  It is entirely possible that 'The Maker' which the Chantry preach of is neither good or evil, or has a personality disorder (if such a thing could even be assessed).

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 04 novembre 2013 - 03:24 .

[The Xand]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Sorry if I'm causing confusion - my wording above could have been clearer perhaps.  Capitalisation is important here.

As far as I'm aware (though correct me if I'm wrong) 'The Maker' is an entity and phrase entirely defined by the Chantry.  As such, any and all references to 'The Maker' automatically fall under the Chantry's definition of 'The Maker'.  That said, in a broader context, the phrase 'the maker' (lower case) could be taken to mean 'the being who created Thedas (plus whatever lies beyond) and it's inhabitants', in which case it wouldn't have to meet the Chantry definition.  But, as I see it, if 'the maker' (lower case) is not 'The Maker', then 'The Maker' does not exist, and the Chantry are wrong - meaning it is impossible for 'The Maker' to be the antagonist.

The OP is expressing an opinion on 'The Maker's' personality - not whether or not 'he' exists.  It is entirely possible that 'The Maker' which the Chantry preach of is neither good or evil, or has a personality disorder (if such a thing could even be assessed).

Bull****tery of the highest order. The Maker as defined by the Chantry is entirely up for debate, and the limits of it's power and it's moral standing. You don't need to stay within the confines of the Chantry's very precise definitions of it, the mere fact they claim it exists by default opens it up to questioning and thorough analysis by anyone and everyone.

Modifié par The Xand, 04 novembre 2013 - 03:27 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't want the Maker to be an antagonist.

I want him to not be real.

I want it to stay ambigous. For him to provably not be real would be my second choice. Bonus points if the Chantry higher-ups knew this all along.

[HiroVoid]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't want the Maker to be an antagonist.

I want him to not be real.

I want it to stay ambigous. For him to provably not be real would be my second choice. Bonus points if the Chantry higher-ups knew this all along.

So Final Fantasy X?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

HiroVoid wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't want the Maker to be an antagonist.

I want him to not be real.

I want it to stay ambigous. For him to provably not be real would be my second choice. Bonus points if the Chantry higher-ups knew this all along.

So Final Fantasy X?

I didn't have that game in mind when writing that, but there are parallels to be drawn.