455 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't want the Maker to be an antagonist.

I want him to not be real.

I want it to stay ambigous. For him to provably not be real would be my second choice. Bonus points if the Chantry higher-ups knew this all along.

So Final Fantasy X?

Or reality? 

Nah, most real world religions aren't worshiping something that wants to kill them all, and end the world, and is actively doing so. They usually worship nothing, and a whole lot of it, with most of their deity being something that isn't on the empirical or material plane at all, so outside of freaky imagination becoming real powers, it's doubtful the thing they worship will actually come and hurt/kill people.

Following the maker being an antagonist, it would be an exact rip off of what final fantasy X did with sin.

And it would just be "prothean 2.0" or "forerunner 2.0" where this thing we thought was great and ended up being a corner stone in all our civilizations and progress is not made by something evil, but something that actively wants to kill everything alive.

Yay originality. <_< Wonder if evil maker will take the form of a child and make us pick between red, blue, and green lyrium veins.

To be fair, the idea was old long before Square Enix or Bioware ever got their hands on it.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't want the Maker to be an antagonist.

I want him to not be real.

I want it to stay ambigous. For him to provably not be real would be my second choice. Bonus points if the Chantry higher-ups knew this all along.

So Final Fantasy X?

Or reality? 

Nah, most real world religions aren't worshiping something that wants to kill them all, and end the world, and is actively doing so. They usually worship nothing, and a whole lot of it, with most of their deity being something that isn't on the empirical or material plane at all, so outside of freaky imagination becoming real powers, it's doubtful the thing they worship will actually come and hurt/kill people.

Following the maker being an antagonist, it would be an exact rip off of what final fantasy X did with sin.

And it would just be "prothean 2.0" or "forerunner 2.0" where this thing we thought was great and ended up being a corner stone in all our civilizations and progress is not made by something evil, but something that actively wants to kill everything alive.

Yay originality. <_< Wonder if evil maker will take the form of a child and make us pick between red, blue, and green lyrium veins.

To be fair, the idea was old long before Square Enix or Bioware ever got their hands on it.

Yes it has.

[Fredward]

Well, assuming he does exist (and I don't think he does, and if he does he'll bear very little resemblance to Chantry dogma) I imagine it'll be for the usual reasons. He stands oppressive/expansionist regime adjacent, he chucked the Old Gods into the earth presumably because he doesn't like to share and then he created a scourge that caused the deaths of thousands (millions?) in a suitably deity-esque temper tantrum because who cares if ten generations from now some random farmer's family is being butchered in front of his eyes as long as the punishment was suitably awe inspiring at the time?

Whether he exists or not I don't think he'll play much of a role. Unless he's Flemeth ofc.

[Plaintiff]

Indiana Jones is itself an homage to pulp fiction that predates it significantly.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't want the Maker to be an antagonist.

I want him to not be real.

I want it to stay ambigous. For him to provably not be real would be my second choice. Bonus points if the Chantry higher-ups knew this all along.

So Final Fantasy X?

Or reality? 

Nah, most real world religions aren't worshiping something that wants to kill them all, and end the world, and is actively doing so. They usually worship nothing, and a whole lot of it, with most of their deity being something that isn't on the empirical or material plane at all, so outside of freaky imagination becoming real powers, it's doubtful the thing they worship will actually come and hurt/kill people.

That's what I wanted, though. I wanted them to be worshipping a whole lot of nothing, or better yet something we can't prove is there but which they take as read exists. Final Fantasy X's plot has some things in common with what I'm hoping to (continue to) see, but it's not entirely the same thing.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 04 novembre 2013 - 05:44 .

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't want the Maker to be an antagonist.

I want him to not be real.

I want it to stay ambigous. For him to provably not be real would be my second choice. Bonus points if the Chantry higher-ups knew this all along.

So Final Fantasy X?

Or reality? 

Nah, most real world religions aren't worshiping something that wants to kill them all, and end the world, and is actively doing so. They usually worship nothing, and a whole lot of it, with most of their deity being something that isn't on the empirical or material plane at all, so outside of freaky imagination becoming real powers, it's doubtful the thing they worship will actually come and hurt/kill people.

That's what I wanted, though. I wanted them to be worshipping a whole lot of nothing, or better yet something we can't prove is there but which they take as read exists. Final Fantasy X's plot has some things in common with what I'm hoping to (continue to) see, but it's not entirely the same thing.

Having it continue to be ambiguous, with no evidence to prove the maker actually exist, but nothing to outright disprove it either, is the course I would like to see most. The problem with final fantasy X is they took this idea, and took it a step further into "let's make the religion of spira the bad guys, therefore, people will fall for the twist and be blown away"

Instead, it just blew. And blew hard.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Plaintiff wrote...

Indiana Jones is itself an homage to pulp fiction that predates it significantly.

True, but while old pulp fiction movies and adventure serials I feel are underapreciated, along with levity in general. I feel making deities thought of as good into bad guys is bland at this point, and rarely ever done well. They don't ever just make them uncaring, or distant, they have to take it a step further and make them full on evil bad guys we need to stop. It's bland, it's a twist as overused as obvious heel-face turn character, and there is literally no one I've seen who've actually put some form of interesting twist on it that didn't just feel like re-hashed stolen crap from another series.

[TEWR]

Instead, it just blew. And blew hard.

Nah.

[Plaintiff]

Uncovering harsh and disturbing truths about the society in which the story is set is pretty much a staple of the entire Final Fantasy franchise, and JRPGs in general.

It would've been impossible to leave the nature of Spira's religion ambiguous, and that was clearly never the intention, because the entire point of the narrative is to understand why Sin keeps returning, so that the cycle of death can be ended permanently.

Anything else would've been supremely unsatisfying. "Let's just stay the course and never question anything, and then Yuna can die her tragic death, Sin will come back as per usual, and nothing will actually be solved."

Modifié par Plaintiff, 04 novembre 2013 - 05:52 .

[The Flying Grey Warden]

For final fantasy X, perhaps that is the case. After all, it's entire game is relatively focused on the mystery of sin, since it's the main thing we see first in the whole game when it attacks zanarkand(I hope I'm remembering the name right. It's been almost a decade since I played that game.).

But dragon age is not final fantasy X, the focus of the story hasn't been on questioning the maker's existence, and the chantry's belief in the maker is not nearly as absolute and overwhelmingly prevalent as the religion of spira's is. We see much more diversity in those who believe in the maker, from those who are skeptical, to outright disbelievers, to those who don't know or have an option on it, to those who believe, to those who believe way too much.

It's a entirely different situation, presentation, and circumstance then spira's, and so it shouldn't go down the same route of boring plot twist.

[Plaintiff]

I agree. I don't want Dragon Age to be Final Fantasy anymore than I want it to be Assassin's Creed or The Witcher or The Elder Scrolls or anything else.

Dragon Age should be Dragon Age.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

On that, we can agree.

...this is a weird moment.

[HiroVoid]

But what about when Dragon Age evolves into Dragon Quest?

[Nefla]

People also wanted to romance their sister in DA2, people are weird.

[Ravensword]

Nefla wrote...

People also wanted to romance their sister in DA2, people are weird.

It was Hawke's sister, actually.

[Fredward]

Nefla wrote...
People also wanted to romance their sister in DA2, people are weird.

The weirdest thing there was that Bethany has the personality of a plank with a smiley face drawn on it. Ah well. No accounting for taste.

[Nefla]

Ravensword wrote...

Nefla wrote...

People also wanted to romance their sister in DA2, people are weird.

It was Hawke's sister, actually.

You play as Hawke.

[Ravensword]

Nefla wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Nefla wrote...

People also wanted to romance their sister in DA2, people are weird.

It was Hawke's sister, actually.

You play as Hawke.

So? I never identified w/ my Hawke.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Ravensword wrote...

Nefla wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Nefla wrote...

People also wanted to romance their sister in DA2, people are weird.

It was Hawke's sister, actually.

You play as Hawke.

So? I never identified w/ my Hawke.

You just want to watch him do the deed with his sister?


Anyway, the most important thing for me, is that I really want that maker to turn out to be a strong independant black woman, I'm so sick of seeing bearded white men as god. Or maybe a chinese chap

[TurretSyndrome]

Response to topic: Don't see the reason why we shouldn't. It would definitely end the franchise with a bang, if done right.

The way I see it right now, it's Chantry: 1, Mages: 0, since it's proven that the Magisters of old did enter the Black City and got corrupted. I'd like to see something happen to the Chantry now, a hint revealed, like the Maker himself is corrupted, and that it was never a Golden City.

And to people hating on non-believers, enough! People believe what they want to believe, you are in no position to decide what's right or assume that all Atheists have psychological problems. Stay on topic or stay out of it.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

What about a strong, independent Patrick Stewart dressed up like tyler perry do?

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

What about a strong, independent Patrick Stewart dressed up like tyler perry do?

Only if his power is to make characters naked.

Plaintiff wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't want the Maker to be an antagonist.

I want him to not be real.

I want it to stay ambigous. For him to provably not be real would be my second choice. Bonus points if the Chantry higher-ups knew this all along.

So Final Fantasy X?

Or reality? 

Nah, most real world religions aren't worshiping something that wants to kill them all, and end the world, and is actively doing so. They usually worship nothing, and a whole lot of it, with most of their deity being something that isn't on the empirical or material plane at all, so outside of freaky imagination becoming real powers, it's doubtful the thing they worship will actually come and hurt/kill people.

Following the maker being an antagonist, it would be an exact rip off of what final fantasy X did with sin.

And it would just be "prothean 2.0" or "forerunner 2.0" where this thing we thought was great and ended up being a corner stone in all our civilizations and progress is not made by something evil, but something that actively wants to kill everything alive.

Yay originality. <_< Wonder if evil maker will take the form of a child and make us pick between red, blue, and green lyrium veins.

To be fair, the idea was old long before Square Enix or Bioware ever got their hands on it.

I haven't finished Skyrim, is Alduin basically the same thing?

[Ravensword]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Nefla wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Nefla wrote...

People also wanted to romance their sister in DA2, people are weird.

It was Hawke's sister, actually.

You play as Hawke.

So? I never identified w/ my Hawke.

You just want to watch him do the deed with his sister?


Anyway, the most important thing for me, is that I really want that maker to turn out to be a strong independant black woman, I'm so sick of seeing bearded white men as god. Or maybe a chinese chap

Like a massive NASCAR pile up. That's pretty much why people watch NASCAR.

You forgot cisgendered.

[iOnlySignIn]

Because the boss fight(s) would be great

[Ananka]

 I don't think I've seen any posts before this thread that mentioned wanting the Maker as antagonist. Sure, the boss fight would be great, but I'm not interested in fighting gods. I don't think the PC should stand a chance against gods.
BW should stick to darkspawn, monsters, demons, abominations and Flemeth as bosses, imo.