283 réponses à ce sujet

[The Twilight God]

The Xand wrote...

I can see why people would draw some parallels between the Maker and the real world Abrahamic god, but I want this made clear; the two are *not* one and the same and should not be treated as such. The two have very different identities.

On the one hand, if the Christians are to be believed you have a forgiving all benevolent entity that has a greater plan for all of us and a vested interest in humanity. On the other, you have an utterly indifferent god that has turned it's back on humanity completely, and if the Chantry is to be believed feels humans should collectively earn it's trust again and even punished humans with the Blights.

The Maker didn't even bother creating a proper afterlife for humans, since there is no heaven or hell in the DA universe, the best they offer is letting people "stand by the Maker's side", which we're not even sure where that is. The Black City? Yeah that's a cheery paradise.

Then there's the power levels of those respective gods. The Christians have progressively increased the power of theirs as a response to science pushing back the boundaries of the unknown until the modern Christian god is omnipotent and invisible, but the Chantry hasn't specified just how powerful it is or what it's limitations are. For all we know it's most powerful ability is churning out primeval creation matter like a Burger King.

That said we shouldn't feel that Bioware have to treat the Maker with the same degree of sanctity and apologism as the Christian god. Maybe infuse a little more personality into it. Even the Christian god had it's exciting Old Testament years, full of smiting and wrathful intervention.

The Maker isn't quite like the Biblical god. I don't recall the Maker endorsing genocides, slavery and racial
superiority. Who exactly says the Maker is Yahweh? I have never heard of such a comparison.

[DKJaigen]

Its hilarious they want the maker to return to create a paradise for them but he failed to do so twice before. Dates a married woman and inflicts disproportionate retribution for a few a few guys entering his home. seriously why the hell does the chantry want such a god back.

[Silfren]

Siegdrifa wrote...

Pyce wrote...

The Maker in DA is disinterested in his creation and God in the Bible sends his only begotten Son to die for the world. Saying that the Maker in DA is more benevolent, seems outstandingly shortsighted to me.

As i said before, the difference between a fictionnal religion and a real religion is that fictionnal religion can change / add direction more easly to serve the plot than Bible, Coran or Torah, unless someone find some older different version (like the Aramean genese version that would prove the biblic genese to be a copy)

Also the first number of the beast was 616, spelling Nero. It was changed to 666 which is Neron the Aramaic alphanumeric of his name.

As i said also before, The Apocalypse was written 30 years after the death of Néron, which means it is very doubtfull to write a text about the end of time in the future for a guy that died 30 or 35 year ago.
Also, the 616 is certainely a copy mistake (as there is here and there with old hand written books) as you also find versions with 665.
Also, some people judge it to fit really well with the 777 and 111 (111 is the number of popes from Malachie prophecy), and 777 - 111 = 666  making 616 and 665 to look totaly out of place.

Actually the earliest known version of the Book of Revelations that mentions the number of the Beast, Papyrus 115, uses the number 616, not 666, suggesting that 616 was indeed the original number.  It is absolutely false to say that it is "certainly" a copy mistake. 

Rather than declaring that the Apocalypse of John was written 30 years after the death of Nero, it would be more accurate--and honest--to say that there are two proposed dates for when it was written: the traditional one of 95 C.E., or an earlier date of about 68 C.E., and that these two dates are the ones most often accepted.  Most scholars attest to the later date of 95. 

Finally, in regards to whether the Apocalypse was written about Nero or was intended as a future event: the earliest interpretations of this book were that it was indeed a futuristic end-time scenario, but this has hardly been the only interpretation to which the book as been subjected over the centuries, and there is no way to really say conclusively which interpretation the original author intended.  However, it's likely that the writer did indeed use Nero's reign as his inspiration for writing it, so interpreting it in that light is quite valid. 

Modifié par Silfren, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:33 .

[Ieldra]

DKJaigen wrote...
Its hilarious they want the maker to return to create a paradise for them but he failed to do so twice before. Dates a married woman and inflicts disproportionate retribution for a few a few guys entering his home. seriously why the hell does the chantry want such a god back.

Andrasteanism clearly takes inspiritation from some real-world religions and their gods in this. I find the attitude of the ancient polytheistic religions much more to my liking. Their gods were real all-too-human bastards, but at least their followers didn't pretend they were anything else, and giving them their due was seen at least as much as prudence as as moral obligation. Personally, my DA characters will always tend to see gods as nothing more but powerful beings with no intrinsic moral authority.

[The Xand]

The Twilight God wrote...

The Xand wrote...

I can see why people would draw some parallels between the Maker and the real world Abrahamic god, but I want this made clear; the two are *not* one and the same and should not be treated as such. The two have very different identities.

On the one hand, if the Christians are to be believed you have a forgiving all benevolent entity that has a greater plan for all of us and a vested interest in humanity. On the other, you have an utterly indifferent god that has turned it's back on humanity completely, and if the Chantry is to be believed feels humans should collectively earn it's trust again and even punished humans with the Blights.

The Maker didn't even bother creating a proper afterlife for humans, since there is no heaven or hell in the DA universe, the best they offer is letting people "stand by the Maker's side", which we're not even sure where that is. The Black City? Yeah that's a cheery paradise.

Then there's the power levels of those respective gods. The Christians have progressively increased the power of theirs as a response to science pushing back the boundaries of the unknown until the modern Christian god is omnipotent and invisible, but the Chantry hasn't specified just how powerful it is or what it's limitations are. For all we know it's most powerful ability is churning out primeval creation matter like a Burger King.

That said we shouldn't feel that Bioware have to treat the Maker with the same degree of sanctity and apologism as the Christian god. Maybe infuse a little more personality into it. Even the Christian god had it's exciting Old Testament years, full of smiting and wrathful intervention.

The Maker isn't quite like the Biblical god. I don't recall the Maker endorsing genocides, slavery and racial
superiority. Who exactly says the Maker is Yahweh? I have never heard of such a comparison.

Yawheh is the Jewish god, and the Maker is intended to be far more evocative of the Christian god than that of Islam or Judaism, with the Chantry being (roughly) analogous to the Catholic Church.

Given that the Chantry are the representatives of the Maker on Thedas their actions are on his behalf, so it reflects poorly on the Maker itself when they divine marched against the Dalish and brutally crushed and oppressed them.

[The Twilight God]

The Xand wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

The Xand wrote...

I can see why people would draw some parallels between the Maker and the real world Abrahamic god, but I want this made clear; the two are *not* one and the same and should not be treated as such. The two have very different identities.

On the one hand, if the Christians are to be believed you have a forgiving all benevolent entity that has a greater plan for all of us and a vested interest in humanity. On the other, you have an utterly indifferent god that has turned it's back on humanity completely, and if the Chantry is to be believed feels humans should collectively earn it's trust again and even punished humans with the Blights.

The Maker didn't even bother creating a proper afterlife for humans, since there is no heaven or hell in the DA universe, the best they offer is letting people "stand by the Maker's side", which we're not even sure where that is. The Black City? Yeah that's a cheery paradise.

Then there's the power levels of those respective gods. The Christians have progressively increased the power of theirs as a response to science pushing back the boundaries of the unknown until the modern Christian god is omnipotent and invisible, but the Chantry hasn't specified just how powerful it is or what it's limitations are. For all we know it's most powerful ability is churning out primeval creation matter like a Burger King.

That said we shouldn't feel that Bioware have to treat the Maker with the same degree of sanctity and apologism as the Christian god. Maybe infuse a little more personality into it. Even the Christian god had it's exciting Old Testament years, full of smiting and wrathful intervention.

The Maker isn't quite like the Biblical god. I don't recall the Maker endorsing genocides, slavery and racial
superiority. Who exactly says the Maker is Yahweh? I have never heard of such a comparison.

Yawheh is the Jewish god, and the Maker is intended to be far more evocative of the Christian god than that of Islam or Judaism, with the Chantry being (roughly) analogous to the Catholic Church.

Given that the Chantry are the representatives of the Maker on Thedas their actions are on his behalf, so it reflects poorly on the Maker itself when they divine marched against the Dalish and brutally crushed and oppressed them.

The God of the Bible and Qur'an, Yahweh, is the Christian, Jewish and Islamic god. What qualities they attribute to said deity fluctuate based on what they consider genuine revelation and corrupted revelation. Dragon Age, and the Chantry by association, is based on western culture and therefore what we may take from it is a likeness to Catholicism based on art design, but in regard to the 3 Abrahamic religions a palette swap is the only real difference. 

It's not a reflection of the deity or it's tenants what the supposed followers do. It would be like saying Yahweh supports fornication despite the fact that it is said that fornicators cannot inherent the kingdom of heaven. Like real life, must "religious" people are hypocrites and ignore the tenants of the deity they claim to profess. It simply becomes a tool of control and that is how the Chantry uses it.

[Estelindis]

The Twilight God wrote...

Like real life, most "religious" people are hypocrites

Do we need any more evidence that this thread needs to be closed?

[Hellion Rex]

Estelindis wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Like real life, most "religious" people are hypocrites

Do we need any more evidence that this thread needs to be closed?

Let's just call it a day and ask a mod to end it already.

[BioWareMod02]

 Enough is enough.