so my question: is it ok to add custom content through .erf and not .hak - and why people are mostly spreading haks along with their modules? I'm mostly worried about time when i will need to publish it.
HAK or ERF?
Débuté par
Wizard on Haste
, nov. 04 2013 11:00
#1
Posté 04 novembre 2013 - 11:00
Wizard on Haste
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I have added some content from the vault, such as custom monsters like beholders and driders through the .erf and not .hak, so now my module directory contains all these files used by the custom mobs.
so my question: is it ok to add custom content through .erf and not .hak - and why people are mostly spreading haks along with their modules? I'm mostly worried about time when i will need to publish it.
so my question: is it ok to add custom content through .erf and not .hak - and why people are mostly spreading haks along with their modules? I'm mostly worried about time when i will need to publish it.
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#2
Posté 04 novembre 2013 - 11:03
kamal_
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Short answer: The hak is needed by players to have the resources available for them. .erf is for you as a builder.
#3
Posté 05 novembre 2013 - 12:30
luna_hawke
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HAKs contain the model files and what not.
They have to go into a HAK file or your /override folder.
Essentially they cannot go into an ERF file.
ERF has content to import into your module.
Lets look at the bouncyrock beholder as an example.
http://nwvault.ign.c...s.Detail&id=142
bounce_beholder_hak.rar has both a HAK file and a MODULE file.
The hak file is needed. That has the beholder model files.
Again the model files must either be a HAK or be lose files in /overide
They also included a module that has the beholder blueprint.
Alternatively they could have also put this in an ERF and let you import it into one of your modules.
I think I'm not explaining ERF very well, but hopefully that helps a bit.
They have to go into a HAK file or your /override folder.
Essentially they cannot go into an ERF file.
ERF has content to import into your module.
Lets look at the bouncyrock beholder as an example.
http://nwvault.ign.c...s.Detail&id=142
bounce_beholder_hak.rar has both a HAK file and a MODULE file.
The hak file is needed. That has the beholder model files.
Again the model files must either be a HAK or be lose files in /overide
They also included a module that has the beholder blueprint.
Alternatively they could have also put this in an ERF and let you import it into one of your modules.
I think I'm not explaining ERF very well, but hopefully that helps a bit.
#4
Posté 05 novembre 2013 - 01:09
andysks
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In my simple mind it goes like that. The erf is importing blueprints, but blueprints alone will show on your list but not as models. For that you need the hak, where the models are. That's why a player only needs the hak, so that he sees the models in game. He doesn't need the blueprints in the toolset 
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#5
Posté 05 novembre 2013 - 01:47
Tchos
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Alternatively, if you create a campaign, then you can just extract the contents of both the ERF and the HAK into your campaign folder, and not have to worry about either of them.
#6
Posté 05 novembre 2013 - 02:52
ColorsFade
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Tchos wrote...
Alternatively, if you create a campaign, then you can just extract the contents of both the ERF and the HAK into your campaign folder, and not have to worry about either of them.
Tchos answer FTW.
I've been wondering about this for a while, and just haven't taken the time to dissect it. Andy, Tchos, thanks.
Now I know what I'll be doing.
#7
Posté 05 novembre 2013 - 03:37
andysks
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Yea, that's pretty cool. Tchos told me this a while ago, and since then my modules are almost hak free, since I have everything I need in my campaign folder.
#8
Posté 05 novembre 2013 - 03:46
Tchos
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Just one caveat: Don't do it if it's an area prefab ERF. Aside from that, no problem. Areas are the only thing that an ERF might contain that you don't want in the campaign folder.
#9
Posté 05 novembre 2013 - 04:37
-Semper-
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Tchos wrote...
Alternatively, if you create a campaign, then you can just extract the contents of both the ERF and the HAK into your campaign folder, and not have to worry about either of them.
which doubles and triples all the files. if you're using the vanilla haks from the vault without merging content yourself it's better to place them within the hak folder. the majority of the players left have this stuff already and don't need those files again
#10
Posté 05 novembre 2013 - 07:01
Tchos
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You mean it doubles/triples if the player already has those files installed from some other module? It doesn't duplicate anything in my module. The files exist only in the campaign folder, and nowhere else. I don't use the haks, and I don't store the blueprints in the module folder.
(Note: Despite the huge amount of custom content I'm using in my module, it only amounts to a 145MB download at last build, with no additional materials required to already have or to download separately.)
(Note: Despite the huge amount of custom content I'm using in my module, it only amounts to a 145MB download at last build, with no additional materials required to already have or to download separately.)
Modifié par Tchos, 05 novembre 2013 - 07:10 .
#11
Posté 05 novembre 2013 - 09:45
ColorsFade
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Yeah, I get what Semper is saying. If someone already has a hak downloaded and installed for another mod, you having it in your campaign folder is a doubling of data. This stuff can chew up HD space fast.
I just had to delete a whole bunch of unused modules off my machine because I was running low on space myself.
I think if it's a common hak that is used a lot by other folks it's probably okay to leave as hak.
But my preference would be campaign folder.
I just had to delete a whole bunch of unused modules off my machine because I was running low on space myself.
I think if it's a common hak that is used a lot by other folks it's probably okay to leave as hak.
But my preference would be campaign folder.
#12
Posté 05 novembre 2013 - 11:50
Tchos
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Yes, I just don't think anyone should assume that a player already has some particular custom content installed. Keeping all that custom content on your hard drive permanently eats up the space, as well. It's most certainly a matter of preference. It may be more suited to those who play on PWs, which tend to install certain common haks, and people tend to leave them there since they play on those PWs for a long time. I play single-player modules, not PWs. I don't keep a lot of haks installed on my computer (no matter how common they are) just in case a module I might play in the future will use it. I like keeping my folders cleaned out of anything that I'm not currently using.
With that view in mind, when I install a module, I prefer all of its resources to be in one place, named such that I can identify what it belongs to, and not have to go to different directories or web sites to find haks that I wouldn't otherwise be using.
I want to easily uninstall it once I've finished playing it. It's easy when it's all self-contained, but if I want to uninstall one module and not another, then I have to figure out whether module A uses the same hak as module B, or else leave everything in there just in case until I'm done playing all of them, which I don't like to do.
With that view in mind, when I install a module, I prefer all of its resources to be in one place, named such that I can identify what it belongs to, and not have to go to different directories or web sites to find haks that I wouldn't otherwise be using.
I want to easily uninstall it once I've finished playing it. It's easy when it's all self-contained, but if I want to uninstall one module and not another, then I have to figure out whether module A uses the same hak as module B, or else leave everything in there just in case until I'm done playing all of them, which I don't like to do.
#13
Posté 07 novembre 2013 - 03:35
Wizard on Haste
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Okay here's more detailed course of my actions.
I started with adding some areas from vault with erf actually, then i found some cool creatures and decided to add them.
First i added driders as a hak - they worked properly, but when i tried to add others, their models didn't show, i tried to add the content by importing erf and they still didn't show... i didn't know yet, that i have to combine 2da, which was an issue there
So i kinda blended all the custom content with my modules content in my project directory. Meaning that i don't have any haks now, as i got all the creature models loaded from module directory. Will that later be a problem with delivering the module? I hope those files get transfered when someone tries to download the module itself (along with the 2da)?
I started with adding some areas from vault with erf actually, then i found some cool creatures and decided to add them.
First i added driders as a hak - they worked properly, but when i tried to add others, their models didn't show, i tried to add the content by importing erf and they still didn't show... i didn't know yet, that i have to combine 2da, which was an issue there
So i kinda blended all the custom content with my modules content in my project directory. Meaning that i don't have any haks now, as i got all the creature models loaded from module directory. Will that later be a problem with delivering the module? I hope those files get transfered when someone tries to download the module itself (along with the 2da)?
#14
Posté 07 novembre 2013 - 03:45
Wizard on Haste
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luna_hawke wrote...
HAKs contain the model files and what not.
They have to go into a HAK file or your /override folder.
Essentially they cannot go into an ERF file.
ERF has content to import into your module.
Lets look at the bouncyrock beholder as an example.
http://nwvault.ign.c...s.Detail&id=142
bounce_beholder_hak.rar has both a HAK file and a MODULE file.
The hak file is needed. That has the beholder model files.
Again the model files must either be a HAK or be lose files in /overide
They also included a module that has the beholder blueprint.
Alternatively they could have also put this in an ERF and let you import it into one of your modules.
I think I'm not explaining ERF very well, but hopefully that helps a bit.
my problem was multiple haks, which all contain thier own 2da - meaning only one module can be active at a time, i then tried to combine the custom content in one and stumbled upon nwn2packer - with it i made a combined...erf (!) and blended it with module files, now i feel i should have made a combined hak instead...and it will be a problem to root out all the custom content files from project directory. I hope however they will be downloaded with the module itself...as you can't really choose what files are coming in from download it goes as a full package, right?
#15
Posté 07 novembre 2013 - 06:09
Tchos
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Okay, first, you say you made a combined ERF. Those are only for builders, not for players. An ERF is just a storage container whose contents can be imported into the toolset for the builder's use. You don't distribute them to players.
You say you extracted all the models into the module folder. That does work (that's how I have the test modules set up for my various placeable projects), but I seem to recall it occasionally not working, and I'm not sure why. Usually, you put the models and textures into either the campaign folder or a hak.
You're correct that having multiple haks with the same 2DA can cause incompatibilities. One way of dealing with it is to merge all the content into one package and combine all of the info from the 2DAs. Another way is to arrange the hak load order so that you have a hak containing a combined 2DA that takes precedence over the rest of them.
Whatever you package up and upload, that's what a player will download. Not sure what you mean about rooting out the custom content from the project directory. If it's necessary for your module to work, then you should want the player to have it.
You say you extracted all the models into the module folder. That does work (that's how I have the test modules set up for my various placeable projects), but I seem to recall it occasionally not working, and I'm not sure why. Usually, you put the models and textures into either the campaign folder or a hak.
You're correct that having multiple haks with the same 2DA can cause incompatibilities. One way of dealing with it is to merge all the content into one package and combine all of the info from the 2DAs. Another way is to arrange the hak load order so that you have a hak containing a combined 2DA that takes precedence over the rest of them.
Whatever you package up and upload, that's what a player will download. Not sure what you mean about rooting out the custom content from the project directory. If it's necessary for your module to work, then you should want the player to have it.
