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What Would You have Changed About Your Favorite Character(s)?


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#301
dreamgazer

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iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Not exactly.  The Normandy was its own character starting in ME1.


Too bad that one died horribly and pointlessly at the start of ME2, eh? ;)


And it was "reconstructed", just like a certain Commander we know.


I've got a DLC that says otherwise.  Dog tags everywhere. smashed galaxy map and everything.


Shall we really delve into how much of Shepard was salvageable due to atmospheric reentry, what "parts" might have been left behind and how much of the commander is new?

#302
Mr.House

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dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Not exactly.  The Normandy was its own character starting in ME1.


Too bad that one died horribly and pointlessly at the start of ME2, eh? ;)


And it was "reconstructed", just like a certain Commander we know.


I've got a DLC that says otherwise.  Dog tags everywhere. smashed galaxy map and everything.


Shall we really delve into how much of Shepard was salvageable due to atmospheric reentry, what "parts" might have been left behind and how much of the commander is new?

Let's not forget Shepards helmet was also on the planet.

#303
AresKeith

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Robosexual wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Nice rebuttal, that totally showed the error in my argument. I don't think it's humanly possible break through your stellar counter-argument, man how silly I feel.


Maybe you shouldn't have used a strawman 


It's sarcasm. His post boiled down to "I read your post and I have an opinion on it, but importantly I have no defense against it, so I'll say something about your ego to hopefully distract from that".


Except it's not because your post was a massive strawman

#304
DeinonSlayer

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dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Not exactly.  The Normandy was its own character starting in ME1.


Too bad that one died horribly and pointlessly at the start of ME2, eh? ;)


And it was "reconstructed", just like a certain Commander we know.


I've got a DLC that says otherwise.  Dog tags everywhere. smashed galaxy map and everything.


Shall we really delve into how much of Shepard was salvageable due to atmospheric reentry, what "parts" might have been left behind and how much of the commander is new?

Oh God... please not another "science" debate with David.

I hold to the theory that Shepard was recovered from orbit. It's the only thing that makes sense.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 novembre 2013 - 02:54 .


#305
Mr.House

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But the start of ME2 says otherwise.

#306
MassivelyEffective0730

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Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Guys, Jacob obviously deserves to take the room from Liara. Use your heads here.


I'd rather let Jacob have the Armory back.

Don't know what the alliance techs were thinking putting it at the single most vulnerable point of intrusion on the ship, away from where the crew can easily access it in the event of an emergency.

I don't know what Cerberus was thinking about putting the armoy in a place where peopel who have to leave for a mission have to take a detour. It works both ways.


Seemed to make perfect sense to me (And U.S. Navy doctrine): Keep the armory close to where the crew is and keep it in a secure area of the ship that's hard to access. And grab your gear, walk 4 steps to the elevator, ride down to the shuttle bay, and bam, on your way. Instead, the armory is, as I said, in the most easily accessible point of intrusion, as well as out of the way of most of the crew in event of a ship-wide disaster or boarding. 

Say that to Grunt and Tali, who have to take a massive detour so they can leave. It's stupid. Then again, the Normandy design in ME2/3 is stupid to begin with. *sigh* I miss the old Normandy which felt like a combat ship.


Having been on many warrships in my life, the SR-2 in ME2 was the most realistic IMO. Granted, none of them had a standard that was to be met.

You're compairing our warships to a space warships that should not have that many windows or feel like a luxtury yacht.


The windows have ablative armor that covers them, and the room is depressurized. If the armor is that close to being penetrated, the ship is already in deep **** by that point already. That point is defeated. 

Plus it seems the Cerberus SR-2 is much more modular than the SR-1. Much more room on the structure for add-ons and upgrades. That's certainly a plus.

And if it's far from a luxury yacht. I think it's rather nice. There is really no reason for a warship to be so spartan. It has very nice accomadations, and the crew is working at their optimum efficiency. Adding comfort there can only increase morale. And, as can never be understated, morale is a valuable commodity. And it bites as hard as it purrs. She's very fast, very efficient, and very powerful.

#307
Mr.House

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If that's true, then why is there a bar in said room? Logic=gone.

ME2 can't even follow it's own created lore, it's sad.

#308
DeinonSlayer

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

You're compairing our warships to a space warships that should not have that many windows or feel like a luxtury yacht.


The windows have ablative armor that covers them, and the room is depressurized. If the armor is that close to being penetrated, the ship is already in deep **** by that point already. That point is defeated. 

Plus it seems the Cerberus SR-2 is much more modular than the SR-1. Much more room on the structure for add-ons and upgrades. That's certainly a plus.

And if it's far from a luxury yacht. I think it's rather nice. There is really no reason for a warship to be so spartan. It has very nice accomadations, and the crew is working at their optimum efficiency. Adding comfort there can only increase morale. And, as can never be understated, morale is a valuable commodity. And it bites as hard as it purrs. She's very fast, very efficient, and very powerful.

Another important point, being modular. That much less air you'll lose if a single compartment is depressurized.

Of course, take a hit to CIC and you're screwed.

I'd think a warship in space would be more akin to a submarine than anything else. Space would be at something of a premium. Hence no "grand staircases" running half the length of the upper deck.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 novembre 2013 - 02:58 .


#309
lex0r11

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@MassivelyEffective0730

I didn't read everything from 10 pages back, I was linked here by a friend and the argument I'm referring to is probably over anyway but here it goes:

From fellow military, just ignore them. All they probably do is reflect fictional concepts onto our world. And I'd be surprised to learn one of these guys actually had real life experiences to allow them to make these conceited assumptions (I would like to be proven wrong).

Pretending to know 100% or demand from others to know what they would do in a life-threatening situation is utter horse crap.

I can only wish I will do the right thing. Wish or hope is all I can do.

You never know until it happens.

#310
Clayless

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Br3ad wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Nice rebuttal, that totally showed the error in my argument. I don't think it's humanly possible break through your stellar counter-argument, man how silly I feel.

1. An enemy on the run is not a threat to the soldier so how is it related to protecting the soldier's life.


The same way shooting farmers is. It's like you forgot about your post.

2. Morals have nothing to do with fending for one's life.


Or commiting war crimes it seems.

3. Torturing little girls was not even implied in the scenario given.


Pretty sure saying morality shouldn't even be factored, and criticising someone who criticises war crimes, implies that perfectly.

Stop trying to comment just to comment. Actually read. Then, when you have actually read the information given, processed it, and finally understood it, then make a comment that has nothing to do with the situation. Until then, just sit back and say nothing if it is going to be almost entirely irrelevant and only antagonistic. You throwing insults only shows that you really had no idea what you were talking about.


You can be insulted by a sarcastic observation to your pointless post if you wanted, but describing it as "throwing insults"? That's reaching a bit, and just looks like you're trying to distract from the actual argument as quickly as possible by playing a victim.

Modifié par Robosexual, 06 novembre 2013 - 02:59 .


#311
Mr.House

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Said farmers where scouts. So yes, said farmers ARE a risk.

#312
MassivelyEffective0730

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Mr.House wrote...

If that's true, then why is there a bar in said room? Logic=gone.

ME2 can't even follow it's own created lore, it's sad.


Because it's meant to be an observation and recreation deck?

What's wrong with that? 

Luxury does not come first on the Normandy. However, it has accomations for it in the event of downtime and morale and crew consideration. That make plenty of sense to me.

#313
Br3admax

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Robosexual wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Nice rebuttal, that totally showed the error in my argument. I don't think it's humanly possible break through your stellar counter-argument, man how silly I feel.

1. An enemy on the run is not a threat to the soldier so how is it related to protecting the soldier's life.


The same way shooting farmers is. It's like you forgot about your post.

People died, so how was that not a threat? A farmer in your face telling you what they will do is not an enemy on the run.

2. Morals have nothing to do with fending for one's life.


Or commiting war crimes it seems.

How many war crimes do you actually know? The given situation is not a war crime.

3. Torturing little girls was not even implied in the scenario given.


Pretty sure saying morality shouldn't even be factored, and criticising someone who criticises war crimes, implies that perfectly.

Not even a proper response to what was given. 

Stop trying to comment just to comment. Actually read. Then, when you have actually read the information given, processed it, and finally understood it, then make a comment that has nothing to do with the situation. Until then, just sit back and say nothing if it is going to be almost entirely irrelevant and only antagonistic. You throwing insults only shows that you really had no idea what you were talking about.


You can be insulted by a sarcastic observation to your pointless post if you wanted, but describing it as "throwing insults"? That's reaching a bit, and just looks like you're trying to distract from the actual argument as quickly as possible by playing a victim.

The only thing that is insulted here is your credibility, which was already null to begin with. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 06 novembre 2013 - 03:03 .


#314
Mr.House

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If that's true, then why is there a bar in said room? Logic=gone.

ME2 can't even follow it's own created lore, it's sad.


Because it's meant to be an observation and recreation deck?

What's wrong with that? 

Luxury does not come first on the Normandy. However, it has accomations for it in the event of downtime and morale and crew consideration. That make plenty of sense to me.

"The windows have ablative armor that covers them, and the room is depressurized."

Why would oyu put a bar in a place that has to be depressurized when combat is entered. It's rule of cool trumping logic. You can like the new Normandy all you want, but don't say it's logical. It's not even close. There is many questionable deisgns along with being too big for a frigate.

#315
Guest_JujuSamedi_*

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Changing characters wouldn't fix the game though.

#316
MassivelyEffective0730

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lex0r11 wrote...

@MassivelyEffective0730

I didn't read everything from 10 pages back, I was linked here by a friend and the argument I'm referring to is probably over anyway but here it goes:

From fellow military, just ignore them. All they probably do is reflect fictional concepts onto our world. And I'd be surprised to learn one of these guys actually had real life experiences to allow them to make these conceited assumptions (I would like to be proven wrong).

Pretending to know 100% or demand from others to know what they would do in a life-threatening situation is utter horse crap.

I can only wish I will do the right thing. Wish or hope is all I can do.

You never know until it happens.


Hey thanks man! <3

Don't wish. Just fall back on your training and keep your rifle, or pig, or what have you covering your battle's blind spot. Your battle will be watching yours. Just trust them, and they'll trust you, and you'll have a much better chance at going home without wicked scars to show to the family.

#317
dreamgazer

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lex0r11 wrote...

@MassivelyEffective0730

I didn't read everything from 10 pages back, I was linked here by a friend and the argument I'm referring to is probably over anyway but here it goes:

From fellow military, just ignore them. All they probably do is reflect fictional concepts onto our world. And I'd be surprised to learn one of these guys actually had real life experiences to allow them to make these conceited assumptions (I would like to be proven wrong).

Pretending to know 100% or demand from others to know what they would do in a life-threatening situation is utter horse crap.

I can only wish I will do the right thing. Wish or hope is all I can do.

You never know until it happens.


(thumbs up)

#318
GreyLycanTrope

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Mr.House wrote...

"The windows have ablative armor that covers them, and the room is depressurized."

Why would oyu put a bar in a place that has to be depressurized when combat is entered. It's rule of cool trumping logic. You can like the new Normandy all you want, but don't say it's logical. It's not even close. There is many questionable deisgns along with being too big for a frigate.

I doubt anyone would actually stay in the rec room when battle stations were called, honestly, it's really not illogical at all.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 06 novembre 2013 - 03:13 .


#319
Clayless

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Br3ad wrote...

People died, so how was that not a threat? A farmer in your face telling you what they will do is not an enemy on the run.


What? Re-read what you quoted, no where does it say a famer in their face telling them what they will do. Actually defend your argument, don't try making things up and hoping that everyone forgets how to view previous pages.

How many war crimes do you actually know? The given situation is not a war crime.


To be clear, willfully shooting civilians is not a warcrime?

Not even a proper response to what was given.


Again, actually try to defend your argument please.

The only thing that is insulted here is your credibility, which was already null to begin with.


Only thing? So I wasn't actually "throwing insults" then I take it, and your previous post was a lie?

Modifié par Robosexual, 06 novembre 2013 - 03:15 .


#320
MassivelyEffective0730

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Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If that's true, then why is there a bar in said room? Logic=gone.

ME2 can't even follow it's own created lore, it's sad.


Because it's meant to be an observation and recreation deck?

What's wrong with that? 

Luxury does not come first on the Normandy. However, it has accomations for it in the event of downtime and morale and crew consideration. That make plenty of sense to me.

"The windows have ablative armor that covers them, and the room is depressurized."

Why would oyu put a bar in a place that has to be depressurized when combat is entered.


Because no one is going to be in the bar when combat is engaged. Why would you think people would be in the bar during combat? And depressurized means that the air is vacuumed out. It's not exposed to space. It's a nonvital area of the ship, and the crew are at battle stations. I'm not seeing where you're going with this.

It's rule of cool trumping logic.


Did you know the Nimitz-class Supercarrier has a movie theater, six gyms (As in work-out gyms), a barbershop, and a 7-Eleven?

A bar really isn't all that much.

You can like the new Normandy all you want, but don't say it's logical. It's not even close.


By my experience with Naval Warships, it's quite practical, if rather heavy on the luxury. But, seeing as it isn't technically military, that's not a bad thing. There's nothing I can see that's a huge issue with it. Can you tell me what a theoretical warship in the future will look like?

I honestly think you're determined to dislike it since it's in ME2.

There is many questionable deisgns along with being too big for a frigate.


I don't think I'm going to take your idea's on warship design seriously.

I agree with it being too large for a Frigate. Or not, since Frigates don't actually have a definitive size by naval flagging standards. That's mostly a registration thing. Maybe it's a heavy frigate. Maybe it's a light cruiser. Maybe, it's a destroyer? The concept doesn't exist in the ME-universe, but the Normandy falls somewhere between frigate and cruiser. A fast, stealth reconnaissance vessel seems to be the best designation for it.

#321
Mr.House

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Greylycantrope wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

"The windows have ablative armor that covers them, and the room is depressurized."

Why would oyu put a bar in a place that has to be depressurized when combat is entered. It's rule of cool trumping logic. You can like the new Normandy all you want, but don't say it's logical. It's not even close. There is many questionable deisgns along with being too big for a frigate.

I doubt anyone would actually stay in the rec room when battle stations were called, honestly, it's really not illogical at all.

What happens if there was a crew membert here?  See? The fact that the player can think that and in fact can question many other design choices along with it's size is not logical at all. There should not even be a bar in the first place, if yo uwant booze go on shoreleave. Adding pointless rooms that just maket he hsip biiger, heaiver and have too many rooms along with that very bright light makes me just facepalm.

Also don't get me started on the CIC, though the CIC design issue has been present since ME so that's not a Sr2 issue.

#322
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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I honestly think you're determined to dislike it since it's in ME2.


He's very commited, I'll give him that.

#323
David7204

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It's not our fault that you're incompetent, House. Or BioWare's.

You're completely wrong by the way. Since the ship is designed around it's weapons and needs a certain mass, it's going to be a certain size anyway. Hence dreadnoughts getting private cabins for crewman that would be 'wasteful' on smaller ships.

#324
DuskWanderer

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 Here's what I'd change about either the characters, or the plots in relation to said characters. 

Kaidan - He's always been more mild-mannered, calmer, and prone to rational decision making, and I would have that show in ME2 and ME3. Refuse to go with Shepard, but not be so judgmental and pissy about it. Give me a few scenes where we can really have the point hammered home that the Cerberus in ME2 was a front TIM put out for Shepard to see (if anyone thinks this is an invalid point, it's brought up on Priority: Cerberus Headquarters). Make the distrust of Shepard less about "working with Cerberus" and more "Did TIM do anything to you, is he listening in on our conversations or anything, I wouldn't put that past him. I worry for the war effort." Sensible, rational reasons. 

I'd also give him a side-mission that lets us explore his character a bit. He has conversations with the Normandy folks (a few more with Tali and Garrus wouldn't hurt, though), but it felt inadequate compared to what everyone else got.

Ashley - I don't mind her letting her hair down, or her jacket on the Normandy, but let her pin her hair back up for a mission, it's just practical, you don't want your hair flying everywhere in a war zone. Give her conversations with the cast about different things. Ashley is spiritual, let her talk with Liara about siari, or Garrus about the spirits. To counterbalance Kaidan talking with Adams, let's have Ashley chat up Dr. Chakwas or Dr. Michel. 

I'm okay with Ashley being more hot-headed about Cerberus since it fits her character, but give her an additional reason, something a bit less crazy.

Both Ashley and Kaidan -
If they're siding with me unconditionally, they should not talk about possibly regretting their decision, nor should Ash mention Cerberus (Kaidan's "you have a gun on Udina" line is fine). They should say something like "I get what's going on, Shepard" and then move to shoot Udina. 


Liara -
I'd cut her from the Normandy squad. Seriously, nothing in her entire story justifies her being on that ship. Her ME1 plot relevance is limited to picking out Ilos, her ME2 relevance is nonexistent, and her ME3 importance is mainly being the Shadow Broker, in which she does nothing at all but receive a few messages (and I have Traynor and EDI doing that already. In ME1, I should be able to ignore her. In ME3, once I pick her up on Mars and bring her to the Citadel, she should go to the Crucible, help with it's design. She should give me missions specific to Prothean tech or the Crucible instead of Hackett. 

And drop the Shadow Broker aspect. It has zero plotline relevance and only serves to try and make her look good. She's a Prothean scientist, that's all. This would also cut down on her lines, and I'm cool with that. Liara was shoveled onto us as a best friend/lover, and I didn't buy it. I didn't get why I was hugging her, or why she was inviting herself up to my cabin. 

Wrex -
Wrex is a terrible leader, and made all of the horrible, yet utterly fascinating, moral complexity about the genophage go away. Make his story actually have a more realistic bent to it: He doesn't understand what a krogan population boom means. He might think he does, but he doesn't. Make the hardline clans cause a war after the Reaper invasion, and Wrex has to deal with it. Make a Wrex/No Eve world just as bad as one with Wreav, since that's what would realistically happen: He just can't control that many people, and he thinks that the krogan taking giant chunks of the galaxy is fine anyway, as long as they ask first. Give me a chance to call out Wrex on being such a crappy leader. I either had to betray him or give him a pass, and that aggravated me. Bottom line, treat Wrex as what he is: A well-meaning guy who can't comprehend the full meaning of his choices because he is so jaded about the cure. 

Kirrahe -
Let me put this awesome salarian on my squad

Jacob -
Give me a reason to root for him. Maybe Brynn could have been a former flame he already knew before ME2, and I inspire him to go back to her, and he then becomes a better father

Jack -
Let me get inside her head without needing to get inside her pants. The conversations were likable, but you can do that without romance. 

Legion - Let someone on the Citadel DLC at let mention Legion. 

EDI - I don't mind her growth arc. I didn't care for the sexbot body, though. She can do that without being a sexbot. Her platonic relationship with Joker was just fine. 


Now, as for plot instances...

On Virmire, they had a dummied out version of saving Ashley and Kaidan both, I'd restore it. It fits with the theme of the game: If you want to succeed, you better damn well do everything right and put in some major risk. Or, let me pick the person setting the bomb. I'd just as quickly give the role to Liara. 

I'd cut the Lair of the Shadow Broker, or at least cut Liara out of it. Shepard literally had no reason to go along with that mission. He could have handed it off, then went to go recruit Samara or someone. There was no need for him to be there. 

I'd add a series of Spectre missions in the third game, that lets us see inside other Spectres. The only ones we got to see were corrupt amoral jerks and Jondum Bau, who had all of one scene. You can put Ashley/Kaidan on those missions too, let us see inside their character head, how they feel about Spectrehood. 

During the third game, I saw an overabundance of krogan and asari, the right amount of quarian and drell, some (but not very much of) turian and salarians, and almost nothing at all with the batarians, volus, elcor, and vorcha. There needed to be more balance. 

#325
Mr.House

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If that's true, then why is there a bar in said room? Logic=gone.

ME2 can't even follow it's own created lore, it's sad.


Because it's meant to be an observation and recreation deck?

What's wrong with that? 

Luxury does not come first on the Normandy. However, it has accomations for it in the event of downtime and morale and crew consideration. That make plenty of sense to me.

"The windows have ablative armor that covers them, and the room is depressurized."

Why would oyu put a bar in a place that has to be depressurized when combat is entered.


Because no one is going to be in the bar when combat is engaged. Why would you think people would be in the bar during combat? And depressurized means that the air is vacuumed out. It's not exposed to space. It's a nonvital area of the ship, and the crew are at battle stations. I'm not seeing where you're going with this.

It's rule of cool trumping logic.


Did you know the Nimitz-class Supercarrier has a movie theater, six gyms (As in work-out gyms), a barbershop, and a 7-Eleven?

A bar really isn't all that much.

You can like the new Normandy all you want, but don't say it's logical. It's not even close.


By my experience with Naval Warships, it's quite practical, if rather heavy on the luxury. But, seeing as it isn't technically military, that's not a bad thing. There's nothing I can see that's a huge issue with it. Can you tell me what a theoretical warship in the future will look like?

I honestly think you're determined to dislike it since it's in ME2.

There is many questionable deisgns along with being too big for a frigate.


I don't think I'm going to take your idea's on warship design seriously.

I agree with it being too large for a Frigate. Or not, since Frigates don't actually have a definitive size by naval flagging standards. That's mostly a registration thing. Maybe it's a heavy frigate. Maybe it's a light cruiser. Maybe, it's a destroyer? The concept doesn't exist in the ME-universe, but the Normandy falls somewhere between frigate and cruiser. A fast, stealth reconnaissance vessel seems to be the best designation for it.

Stop compairing a ship in space to real life ships that are not in space. They can not be compared. Compare space warships to other sci-fi that have done a better job, and yes even by ME standards, SR2 is too big for a frigate, it's stated in game(not that it follows the lore since it ouight does what EDi says it can't do in both games)

The SR1 was fine, it simply had a stupid CIC which even the Alliance thinks it's stupid.