1324 réponses à ce sujet

[Kataphrut94]

Garrus: Get him to take his Dragon Ball Z scouter off once in a while. Having a screen that close to your eye turned constantly on can't be good for it.

Thane: Cut the bit where he runs at Kai Leng while firing his gun. Thane, I love you, but that was a bit silly.

Legion: Include a dialogue option to call him out double-backing on the whole Reaper code thing, just so he can turn it back with the very simple 'No, we're logical machines not idiots, so we're not going to get blown up over principles thanks' argument. This is less a problem with him and more a problem with the people who bag him out and have no idea what they're talking about.

EDI: An optional skin for her robot body that makes her look like Aigis from Persona 3. Who could tell the difference?

Cortez: As much as I love having a proper gay male romance option, it felt like they played him very cautiously so as not to offend all the 'lol queer' teenage boys. I am not an insecure man, so I would have no problem if Cortez was just a little bit more...camp. Not a lot, don't lose any of the all-important character development, just give me the opportunity to take him to the theatre and have us call each other 'darling' like the queens we are.

[KaiserShep]

Kataphrut94 wrote...
Legion: Include a dialogue option to call him out double-backing on the whole Reaper code thing, just so he can turn it back with the very simple 'No, we're logical machines not idiots, so we're not going to get blown up over principles thanks' argument. This is less a problem with him and more a problem with the people who bag him out and have no idea what they're talking about.

Yeah, I think Legion kind of gets the short end of the stick in the Rannoch arc, because there's some pretty sound explanations for why he would want the reaper upgrades, regardless of any statements it may have made in ME2. If Legion said something along the lines of "With these upgrades, our intelligence will no longer be reduced as our numbers do in our conflict with the old machines, and we will be immune to any attempt from the creators to commandeer our platforms." There's no real counter you could make to this statement, other than, you know, wiping them out.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 06 novembre 2013 - 10:09 .

[NeonFlux117]

Garrus- Nothing really. But Garrus deserves his own custom sniper, that only he can carry. Why?? Cause he's the Dark Knight of Omega. That's why.

Legion- yeah. Make him like Legion from ME2. Not some derpy reaper "upgrade" machine. Dafuq Legion???? What about the dyson sphere?

Thane- Should have killed Kai Lame. But I guess. Cause stories and stuff.

Miri- Should have joined Shepard if she was romanced in ME2.

Grunt- I wanted a Grunt and Wrex mission. Imagine the epic Sh!t talking. Me, Grunt and Wrex. The 3 krogan battle-masters tearing sh!t up. Afterwards we go eat some raw salarian.

Ashley- Could she not be such a little B!tch in this game. I mean. Wow Ash. Wow. The writers really hated her character. Never was I so happy I ditched her for Miri. Ash should have been like she was in ME1. A tough, aggressive, opinionated yet cool and compassionate woman. Not Ash from ME3. Debbie downer, thinking shepard is an indoctrinated Cerberus sleeper agent, super B!tch.

Zaeed- Just more zaeed. ME3 needed more zaeed. Just MOAR!!!

Kasumi- Like Zaeed, ME3 needed more kasumi. She could have trolled liara for dayzzzzzzzz on the normandy. Epic troll is obviously epic. Her and Javik. The Troll Team.

TIM. What happened to the rogue, ultra smooth, awesome guy from ME2??? TIM in ME3 is a scrub and a little indoctrinated punk. Dafuq??? TIM and Cerberus should have had the option of letting Shepard join up and screw the alliance. But oh no. I guess plot coupons required his character in ME3 as is. Lame.

Speaking of Lame. What. The. Hell. Happened. To. Harbinger. Srsly, Harby needed more face time in ME3. Not. One. Line???? Are you serious? He talked major trash to shepard in ME2. ME3 needed more Harby. MOAR!!!

[AlexMBrennan]

'No, we're logical machines not idiots, so we're not going to get blown up over principles thanks' argument

There are two likely outcomes if the geth side with the Reapers by accepting their upgrades: 1) Reapers win, wipe out all organics and then wipe out the geth or make them into the next keepers or something like that 2) organics win and Reapers are killed in action.

When they had no realistic option of survival, they chose to both betray their principles and get as many quarians killed as possible... yeah, they really care about their creators.

[KaiserShep]

NeonFlux117 wrote...
Legion- yeah. Make him like Legion from ME2. Not some derpy reaper "upgrade" machine. Dafuq Legion???? What about the dyson sphere?

Are you talking about the same Dyson bubble that the quarians were on the brink of destroying completely before they were stopped? The reaper code upgrade's benefits for the geth are pretty much twofold, and from what I can tell, seem pretty necessary. For one, if each individual geth is a fully actualized intelligence rather than a simpler VI, their reduced numbers in warfare will no longer render them less intelligent/effective. Secondly, the upgrade also makes them immune to electronic attack from the quarians, which was actually successful before the reapers intervened. There's no reason to trust that the quarians won't exploit such a vulnerability in the future.

[NeonFlux117]

KaiserShep wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...
Legion- yeah. Make him like Legion from ME2. Not some derpy reaper "upgrade" machine. Dafuq Legion???? What about the dyson sphere?

Are you talking about the same Dyson bubble that the quarians were on the brink of destroying completely before they were stopped? The reaper code upgrade's benefits for the geth are pretty much twofold, and from what I can tell, seem pretty necessary. For one, if each individual geth is a fully actualized intelligence rather than a simpler VI, their reduced numbers in warfare will no longer render them less intelligent/effective. Secondly, the upgrade also makes them immune to electronic attack from the quarians, which was actually successful before the reapers intervened. There's no reason to trust that the quarians won't exploit such a vulnerability in the future.

Nah, destroy collector base then go talk to legion. Nuff said. 

Legion from ME2 would have a serious problem with Legion in ME3. 

[KaiserShep]

I've gone through that dialogue, and it doesn't matter. It takes place before the quarians wage war on the geth and destroyed their superstructure and implemented their new anti-geth weapon. Needless to say that principles are susceptible to abandonment when your only options are subjugation or extinction.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 06 novembre 2013 - 11:09 .

[Kataphrut94]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

'No, we're logical machines not idiots, so we're not going to get blown up over principles thanks' argument

There are two likely outcomes if the geth side with the Reapers by accepting their upgrades: 1) Reapers win, wipe out all organics and then wipe out the geth or make them into the next keepers or something like that 2) organics win and Reapers are killed in action.

When they had no realistic option of survival, they chose to both betray their principles and get as many quarians killed as possible... yeah, they really care about their creators.

See, I was mainly referring to the decision to upgrade to the Reaper code at the end of the Rannoch arc, where there is literally no reason for them not to do so apart from mindless principle. Yet people still bag them out for it. Why? It's beneficial, reliable, it would save them from the quarians and it would help them fight the Reapers. I thought Legion made it clear enough, but apparently not given the response I've seen.

The decision to accept them at the very beginning was probably a mistake, but then what else could they have done? It was either die now at the hands of the quarians or die later at the hands of the Reapers, and at least the latter option gives you more time to find a way out of it. You can't say it didn't work out for them; by prolonging the war, they bought enough time for Commander Shepard to swoop in and save the day.

[Obadiah]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

'No, we're logical machines not idiots, so we're not going to get blown up over principles thanks' argument

There are two likely outcomes if the geth side with the Reapers by accepting their upgrades: 1) Reapers win, wipe out all organics and then wipe out the geth or make them into the next keepers or something like that 2) organics win and Reapers are killed in action.

When they had no realistic option of survival, they chose to both betray their principles and get as many quarians killed as possible... yeah, they really care about their creators.

See, I was mainly referring to the decision to upgrade to the Reaper code at the end of the Rannoch arc, where there is literally no reason for them not to do so apart from mindless principle. Yet people still bag them out for it. Why? It's beneficial, reliable, it would save them from the quarians and it would help them fight the Reapers. I thought Legion made it clear enough, but apparently not given the response I've seen.

The decision to accept them at the very beginning was probably a mistake, but then what else could they have done? It was either die now at the hands of the quarians or die later at the hands of the Reapers, and at least the latter option gives you more time to find a way out of it. You can't say it didn't work out for them; by prolonging the war, they bought enough time for Commander Shepard to swoop in and save the day.

While playing ME2 just now and activating Legion, this is one of the first things it says, "We were studying the Old Machine's hardware to protect our future." I don't think the Geth are really averse to learning new tech from their enemies, they just don't think it is useful to be handed it in order to enact someone else's agenda.

Modifié par Obadiah, 06 novembre 2013 - 02:35 .

[Han Shot First]

[quote]Barquiel wrote...

Liara 

There really were so many missed opportunities regarding Liara's scenes in ME1...the dialogue after defeating Benezia on Noveria or meeting Shiala on Feros (the only daughter of her mentor standing next to Shepard in combat armour and they don't even acknowledge each other?). I love how the writers developed the character in LotSB and ME3. The old Liara was still there, but under other layers that had to be peeled away. The only things that bothered me about her in ME3 were the romance lock in dialogue (..."more than friends"), and I missed a Liara hug interrupt after Thessia.[/quote]

Good points about Benezia and Shiala. I think both of those are examples of how Bioware had not yet learned how to handle character interaction. Had the Benezia scene in particular occurred in Mass Effect 3, Liara's reaction to Benezia's death probably would have been a little bit more realistic and emotional. I think Bioware also realized it hadn't handled that scene as well as it should have, considering there are multiple references in Mass Effect 3 to Liara mourning Benezia off-screen.


[quote]
Barquiel wrote...

Morinth
She isn't exactly my favorite squadmate (I usually save Samara), but I thought that Morinth had huge potential to be a fantastic character...and all this potential was wasted. The suicide mission was probably the first time she's done anything that wasn't explicitly selfish...a hedonistic serial killer helps to save the galaxy (maybe the start of some redemption storyline?). She would have made a great love interest for Shepard, one whose relationship would be entirely emotional, since sex would be fatal. But turning her into "Samara with a different power" was simply lazy. And everything would be better than the named Banshee in ME3. Having Morinth in the monastery would've been easy.
[/quote]

I'm not sure Morinth's motives for joining the suicide mission are entirely unselfish. I got the impression a big part of it was a hook to try and seduce (and murder) Shepard, since she makes an attempt immediately afterwards. But I do like your idea about Morinth's character arc instead being one of redemption.

One problem I had with Morinth is that the player is never really given a good reason to recruit her. She is a dangerous serial killer who wants to murder Shepard, is potentially mentally unstable, and is not more powerful than Samara. She should have either had some redeeming qualities or should have been a stronger biotic than Samara, so that perhaps there would be a pragmatic reason for choosing her despite the very obvious flaws.

I think I've chosen Samara in every playthrough except for one because there are no good reasons to recruit Morinth.



[quote]pablodomi wrote...[/quote]-Shepard died. He didn't defect or go AWOL only to reappear with a group extremists for the lols. If he romanced or was in friendly terms with Ashley/Kaidan the least he can do is to tell them about the Lazarus project. The brief interaction between Ash and Shepard on Horizon is really awkward and very poorly written. The whole ME 2 deals with Shepard's death in a very strange way, almost like if it was a last minute plot decision and there was no time or money to record new dialogues with your old crewmembers.[/quote]

That was one of my complaints about Mass Effect 2 as well. The reaction to Shepard's return by the former squadmates is almost a non-reaction. "Oh hai Shepard...welcome back."

I expected them to be a little more shocked to see someone return from the dead.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Samara
I'd tone down her willingness to play executioner with someone like Morinth or the defeated Eclipse merc. The weird inability to take prisoners in certain situations is one of my pet peeves with Mass Effect, as it often forces some unnecessarily polarizing choices for Shepard. Her serene demeanor and her adherence to her code - her most interesting traits - don't require this element.

Liara
Again, I'd tone her down a little in ME2 - the transition to ruthless information broker and then back to Paragon-leaning prothean expert in ME3 doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Kasumi
Let her get over Keiji a little more definitively. That scene with what appears to be some sort of hologram in the Synthesis ending bugs me - it feels less like a genuine reunion than someone consciously choosing to live in an illusion instead of accepting reality.

Tali
Add more of a platonic friendship option in ME2. If you aren't romancing her, she seems just as preoccupied with "cleaning up the engine" as Garrus is with his "calibrations."

Garrus
Same thing - his ME2 conversation options are too limited.

EDIT: Meant to say "platonic" re: Tali where I had "non-platonic."

Modifié par FlyingSquirrel, 06 novembre 2013 - 10:21 .

[Han Shot First]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not really sure what's wrong, precisely, with Liara being a virgin. Obviously she doesn't have to be, but I wondered why so many seemed to zoom in on it as a problem that had to be fixed. Unless it's redundancy with Tali, which I suppose is understandable, that you'd want to change one of them.

I have a few problems with it.

The first is that it is highly unusual. Liara after all is university graduate with the Asari equivalent of a Ph.D and has been working as an archaeologist for fifty years. It is difficult to draw a comparison between human years and Asari ones, but it would take an archaeologist about 8 years of schooling at bare minimum to get where Liara is. Assuming that person was 18 during their first year at university they could have a Ph.D. by their mid-to-late 20s. How many people in their mid or late 20s are still virgins? I prefer that adult characters have adult lives. Of course there are always outliers, so that in itself wouldn't be a problem if it was the only issue.

The other problems I have with it are that it is so common in Bioware games (Liara, Tali, Merrill, Aerie) and characters are only written that way because shy and socially awkward virgins are apparently nerdbait. Its a form of fanservice and an ego stroke for the player. The viriginity is being fetishized. Now before someone disagrees, ask yourself why this character type is only seen in female characters?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

StreetMagic wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The other problems I have with it are that it is so common in Bioware games (Liara, Tali, Merrill, Aerie) and characters are only written that way because shy and socially awkward virgins are apparently nerdbait. Its a form of fanservice and an ego stroke for the player. The viriginity is being fetishized. Now before someone disagrees, ask yourself why this character type is only seen in female characters?

I agree they're fetishizing it, but they did with Alistair (male) in DAO as well.

I actually thought it was okay with Alistair because I never seen it done with a male charater before, it was a refreshing twist on it so to speak.

[Han Shot First]

StreetMagic wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The other problems I have with it are that it is so common in Bioware games (Liara, Tali, Merrill, Aerie) and characters are only written that way because shy and socially awkward virgins are apparently nerdbait. Its a form of fanservice and an ego stroke for the player. The viriginity is being fetishized. Now before someone disagrees, ask yourself why this character type is only seen in female characters?

I agree they're fetishizing it, but they did with Alistair (male) in DAO as well.

A fair point. I had forgotten that Alistair was a virgin. Even so, I do think it is more common for female characters than male ones. Most Bioware games have a female LI that falls into that character type. DA:O is once again an exception.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 06 novembre 2013 - 05:19 .

[Seboist]

Bioware is well aware that there's no shortage of goofs on here that don't want their self-insert's waifu having prior sexual or relationship experience.

I've even seen some on here not wanting their waifu moving on after Shepard's death, Lol.

[Iakus]

Han Shot First wrote...

The first is that it is highly unusual. Liara after all is university graduate with the Asari equivalent of a Ph.D and has been working as an archaeologist for fifty years. It is difficult to draw a comparison between human years and Asari ones, but it would take an archaeologist about 8 years of schooling at bare minimum to get where Liara is. Assuming that person was 18 during their first year at university they could have a Ph.D. by their mid-to-late 20s. How many people in their mid or late 20s are still virgins? I prefer that adult characters have adult lives. Of course there are always outliers, so that in itself wouldn't be a problem if it was the only issue.

Liara is also shy, socially awkward, and spends a lot of time alone.  It may not be standard for humans or asari but it's certainly not rare or bizarre.

If anything, I'd say her transformation from that to ruthless information broker was strange

The other problems I have with it are that it is so common in Bioware games (Liara, Tali, Merrill, Aerie) and characters are only written that way because shy and socially awkward virgins are apparently nerdbait. Its a form of fanservice and an ego stroke for the player. The viriginity is being fetishized. Now before someone disagrees, ask yourself why this character type is only seen in female characters?

Then why aren't all the romances such?  

[Ravensword]

Seboist wrote...

Bioware is well aware that there's no shortage of goofs on here that don't want their self-insert's waifu having prior sexual or relationship experience.

I've even seen some on here not wanting their waifu moving on after Shepard's death, Lol.

Shepard's waifu should be forcibly entombed w/ Shepard.

[Barquiel]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not really sure what's wrong, precisely, with Liara being a virgin. Obviously she doesn't have to be, but I wondered why so many seemed to zoom in on it as a problem that had to be fixed. Unless it's redundancy with Tali, which I suppose is understandable, that you'd want to change one of them.

It doesn't bother me because Liara's (mind mild) virginity wasn't a big part of her romance. She mentions it once in ME1...and the topic never comes up again during the series.

Anyway, I don't think virgin or not is the reason which makes people like a character. I certainly couldn't care less about it (...romanced Viconia in BG2 and Isabela in DA2  ).

[Han Shot First]

iakus wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The first is that it is highly unusual. Liara after all is university graduate with the Asari equivalent of a Ph.D and has been working as an archaeologist for fifty years. It is difficult to draw a comparison between human years and Asari ones, but it would take an archaeologist about 8 years of schooling at bare minimum to get where Liara is. Assuming that person was 18 during their first year at university they could have a Ph.D. by their mid-to-late 20s. How many people in their mid or late 20s are still virgins? I prefer that adult characters have adult lives. Of course there are always outliers, so that in itself wouldn't be a problem if it was the only issue.

Liara is also shy, socially awkward, and spends a lot of time alone.  It may not be standard for humans or asari but it's certainly not rare or bizarre.

If anything, I'd say her transformation from that to ruthless information broker was strange

It is a bit unusual.

While it is true that it isn't exactly rare for people to be shy or introspective, neither of those things is necessarily a large obstacle to dating other people. And it is a rare for people in a similar stage of life as Liara (university graduate / established in a career) to still be virgins regardless of whether they're introverted or extroverted. Of course there are always outliers, so I could overlook that if there weren't other issues with how often or why Bioware characters are portrayed that way.

iakus wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The other problems I have with it are that it is so common in Bioware games (Liara, Tali, Merrill, Aerie) and characters are only written that way because shy and socially awkward virgins are apparently nerdbait. Its a form of fanservice and an ego stroke for the player. The viriginity is being fetishized. Now before someone disagrees, ask yourself why this character type is only seen in female characters?

Then why aren't all the romances such?  

Enough female LIs are portrayed that it could probably get an entry on TVTropes. Bioware games like DA:O where that isn't the case are an exception.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 06 novembre 2013 - 07:17 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

They should have put Shepard's body from the destroy ending on a boat and tied his/her waifu (alive) to a mast, with the space hamster, poured gasoline all over it, set it out in the channel and fired flaming arrows and set it on fire. That's the way the game should have ended. We would have had closure, and a hero's funeral. There, now David can't object. lol.

The virginity was fetishized. I can almost understand Tali with those damned suits making it difficult. Almost. But Liara?

Another question -- was Shepard a virgin? 30 + years old? ... in the Navy? ... nah.

Bioware really needs to stop making the henchmen so damned young. How about a bit more mature?

I'm also guessing Geralt wasn't heroic in The Witcher and The Witcher 2. Damn. Talk about a f***athon.

[Nguyen Giap]

seeing tali without a mask

[KR96]

Barquiel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not really sure what's wrong, precisely, with Liara being a virgin. Obviously she doesn't have to be, but I wondered why so many seemed to zoom in on it as a problem that had to be fixed. Unless it's redundancy with Tali, which I suppose is understandable, that you'd want to change one of them.

It doesn't bother me because Liara's (mind mild) virginity wasn't a big part of her romance. She mentions it once in ME1...and the topic never comes up again during the series.

Anyway, I don't think virgin or not is the reason which makes people like a character. I certainly couldn't care less about it (...romanced Viconia in BG2 and Isabela in DA2  ).

Yeah second that. Though I didn't play BG (1 or 2), I did romance both Liara and Isabela, who are two extremely different characters in truth. Not the fact that she was a virgin (I honestly couldn't care less)  but her quirkiness and the fact that, although a walking codex, she was quite an interesting person to talk to. I felt that although Ash had some baggage in ME1, she mostly nagged on and on about it, rather than share a bit of her experiences throughout the years. What did bother me was the willingness with which she threw herself against Shepard, a guy she barely knows at that point. But my headcanon always defers that to the 'joining' of their minds. (Prothean beacon, etc.) 

Also, I felt that Liara's transition in ME2 and ME3 was quite welcome, as it was obvious the 'innocent scientist' cameo couldn't last forever. And even though she is clearly the writer's pet during ME3 and has some scenes I don't entirely agree with, I still felt that she was the 'deepest' character in the game. 

So in that respect, no, they didn't have to put up the enitre 'look at me, I'm innocent and a virgin! Please do me!' act.