1324 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I'm not really sure what's wrong, precisely, with Liara being a virgin. Obviously she doesn't have to be, but I wondered why so many seemed to zoom in on it as a problem that had to be fixed. Unless it's redundancy with Tali, which I suppose is understandable, that you'd want to change one of them.

Anyway, with Liara, I think the most I'd do is give Samantha a somewhat different job so Liara's information-gathering skills could shine more. Apart from that, some improvements already mentioned by other people could probably be used; giving some more of a personal arc related to Benezia might be nice.

[eyezonlyii]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not really sure what's wrong, precisely, with Liara being a virgin. Obviously she doesn't have to be, but I wondered why so many seemed to zoom in on it as a problem that had to be fixed. Unless it's redundancy with Tali, which I suppose is understandable, that you'd want to change one of them.

Anyway, with Liara, I think the most I'd do is give Samantha a somewhat different job so Liara's information-gathering skills could shine more. Apart from that, some improvements already mentioned by other people could probably be used; giving some more of a personal arc related to Benezia might be nice.

I don't think the fact that she's a virgin bothers people (i mean, it doesn't really both me) I think it's the fact that she's so virginal that bothers people. I mean, she is young, but at the same time we're told that it's customary fo young Asari to be raging psychic sex bots and dancers and then she's the perfect counterpoint to this, and so awkward about everything, and then so willing to jump into a relationship with you after one moment of melding, which wasn't even sexual...

[KaiserShep]

StreetMagic wrote...

Yeah, they really dropped the ball on addressing Akuze.. but I still like the psyche profile. Agreed, would have been nice to meet up with Toombs again. I think they want us to forget it.

I do wish we got to encounter him again. He did say he intended to kill Shepard the next time he met. I would've liked to see some follow-up on that.

[eyezonlyii]

KaiserShep wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Yeah, they really dropped the ball on addressing Akuze.. but I still like the psyche profile. Agreed, would have been nice to meet up with Toombs again. I think they want us to forget it.

I do wish we got to encounter him again. He did say he intended to kill Shepard the next time he met. I would've liked to see some follow-up on that.

we should have gotten him instead of jacob. that would have been some drama right there. think about Horizon!!

[Xilizhra]

eyezonlyii wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not really sure what's wrong, precisely, with Liara being a virgin. Obviously she doesn't have to be, but I wondered why so many seemed to zoom in on it as a problem that had to be fixed. Unless it's redundancy with Tali, which I suppose is understandable, that you'd want to change one of them.

Anyway, with Liara, I think the most I'd do is give Samantha a somewhat different job so Liara's information-gathering skills could shine more. Apart from that, some improvements already mentioned by other people could probably be used; giving some more of a personal arc related to Benezia might be nice.

I don't think the fact that she's a virgin bothers people (i mean, it doesn't really both me) I think it's the fact that she's so virginal that bothers people. I mean, she is young, but at the same time we're told that it's customary fo young Asari to be raging psychic sex bots and dancers and then she's the perfect counterpoint to this, and so awkward about everything, and then so willing to jump into a relationship with you after one moment of melding, which wasn't even sexual...

Well, then it's a break with species stereotypes. That's hardly a bad thing. The romance start could be better, but then, all the dialogue in ME1 was hellishly wonky.

[Xilizhra]

StreetMagic wrote...

Personally, I would've liked a species stereotype as an intro Asari character (then again, Wrex and Garrus aren't typical either. "Mutant Krogan" and "Bad Turian").

Er... what kind of species stereotype, if I may ask?

[Yougotcarved1]

StreetMagic wrote...
Possibly shook their ass a lot.

I KNEW IT YOU HORNY SPACE VIRGIN

[Xilizhra]

StreetMagic wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Personally, I would've liked a species stereotype as an intro Asari character (then again, Wrex and Garrus aren't typical either. "Mutant Krogan" and "Bad Turian").

Er... what kind of species stereotype, if I may ask?

Talked a lot of crap like Eclipse soldiers. Or talked dirty (Aethyta) or wore commando leathers (Aria or Shiala). Possibly shook their ass a lot.

Aha. For my part, I'm perfectly fine with the Liara we got.

Of course, having the PC be like that would be quite another thing, and rather fascinating. Playing as Tela Vasir...

[Xilizhra]

OK? Is this where I get lectured by BSN's Paladin and Sunday School crowd?

I make no apologies.

We don't expect our penitents to make any. Such would be futile.

Yeah, Vasir's another.

What's funny is many of those Asari I like are kind of masculine and feminine at once. It's not just some sex appeal thing.

Aethyta has the whole internalized speciesism thing going, which may work for some. But while Vasir's got her own appeal, I'd like her more as a PC than a companion (too many Spectres sort of spoils the mission, one could say?).

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It's the virgin thing. It's doubled up with Tali. Teen age boys must have their virgins. They must be the first.

Come on, the woman is 106 years old. She's been through university. She's got a PhD. She's never done a sexual meld? In ME1 she's an emotional brick except for one scene before she blows away her mother. After that she's perfectly fine. Wow. Mom's laying there, of course she just tried to kill her, but still she knew her mom was being controlled, and her mom had broken through the control, and she's fine about it like nothing happened. No wait. Mom's corpse disintegrated, and is thus forgotten. And Ashley who is the most insulting is the only one who acknowledges that Liara must really be hurting. Yet, "I'm fine, Shepard."

Of course the characters for the most part are horribly written in ME1 anyway, IMO, except for Ashley who got butchered in the rest of the series I suppose to make up for it.

I wish BW would write deeper characters.

[Xilizhra]

Come on, the woman is 106 years old. She's been through university. She's got a PhD. She's never done a sexual meld? In ME1 she's an emotional brick except for one scene before she blows away her mother. After that she's perfectly fine. Wow. Mom's laying there, of course she just tried to kill her, but still she knew her mom was being controlled, and her mom had broken through the control, and she's fine about it like nothing happened. No wait. Mom's corpse disintegrated, and is thus forgotten. And Ashley who is the most insulting is the only one who acknowledges that Liara must really be hurting. Yet, "I'm fine, Shepard."

It's not unbelievable that she wouldn't have had sex yet; she just might not have been interested, or was but was more interested in other things? While I certainly have no burning need for virgins and can understand your concern, I personally find it a bit unsettling that being a virgin is somehow a strike against her.

The stuff with Benezia was badly written, though, I admit that.

[Deverz]

I don't really know what I'd change character wise... I guess I'd change how most of your squad seem to be just pissing about even though there's an invasion coming. Especially if you brought two specific squad members to Ilos and heard Vigil's warnings. I brought Garrus with me and what does he do? Play batman on Omega. Shepard is dead yet no one's preparing. That really bothered me.

[Wulfram]

Avoidance isn't really an unusual reaction to trauma, I don't think. Talking about Benezia's death would hurt terribly, so Liara brushes Shepard off. Though if that was the intent of her characterisation in ME1, they didn't really stick to it in ME3, where IIRC Kaidan says she talked about her mother quite a bit.

Being a virgin of course isn't a problem, but I think the fetishisation of virginity is. And I feel Liara plays into that, rather than it being a natural outgrowth of her character.

Modifié par Wulfram, 05 novembre 2013 - 11:13 .

[Xilizhra]

Wulfram wrote...

Avoidance isn't really an unusual reaction to trauma, I don't think. Talking about Benezia's death would hurt terribly, so Liara brushes Shepard off. Though if that was the intent of her characterisation in ME1, they didn't really stick to it in ME3, where IIRC Kaidan says she talked about her mother quite a bit.

Being a virgin of course isn't a problem, but I think the fetishisation of virginity is. And I feel Liara plays into that, rather than it being a natural outgrowth of her character.

Hmm. Can you elaborate on Liara being that fetishization?

[David7204]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It's the virgin thing. It's doubled up with Tali. Teen age boys must have their virgins. They must be the first.

Come on, the woman is 106 years old. She's been through university. She's got a PhD. She's never done a sexual meld?

I wish BW would write deeper characters.

Heroes are lonely. They're unsuccessful in romance. They're unpopular. That is, at least in the normal world.

It makes perfect sense. It's the path they walk.

Modifié par David7204, 05 novembre 2013 - 11:22 .

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It's the virgin thing. It's doubled up with Tali. Teen age boys must have their virgins. They must be the first.

Come on, the woman is 106 years old. She's been through university. She's got a PhD. She's never done a sexual meld?

I wish BW would write deeper characters.

Heroes are lonely. They're unsuccessful in romance. They're unpopular.

It makes perfect sense. It's the path they walk.

Was Liara already a hero before meeting Shepard? If so, what's your definition in this case?

[David7204]

Yes, she was. Or at least she had the necessary mindset. What other type of person would join Shepard's crew? Learn to fight?

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

Yes, she was. Or at least she had the necessary mindset. What other type of person would join Shepard's crew? Learn to fight?

Jack? Zaeed? Morinth? I don't think Miranda quite qualifies as being a hero either, or arguably Thane.

Granted, most grew into the role, except Zaeed and Morinth.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 05 novembre 2013 - 11:27 .

[David7204]

All of those people have experience with combat and whatnot. Liara doesn't. Anyway, you're right, none of them qualify, aside from possibly Jack in ME 3.

[Wulfram]

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmm. Can you elaborate on Liara being that fetishization?

Just that it seemed a touch contrived, and was made something of a big deal of.