1324 réponses à ce sujet

[Kataphrut94]

She wasn't a tough boss, she just had lots of health. I've played LotSB many times and I never felt challenged by her, it was just a case of spamming Warp and emptying entire assault rifle clips into her while she kept teleporting around the battlefield doing negligible damage. It didn't require any particular strategy or skill like the Colossus did. There was potential there with the whole charge thing, but they didn't use it.

I'm not defending Kai Leng, I'm just saying he's hardly any different from her. At the end of the day, they're both just glorified henchman who are invincible in cutscenes. That said, I will give Leng points for using regenerating shields instead of having very, very strong shields since it's more in line with the game mechanics. The fact that she was so durable despite being injured in a crash didn't make Vasir look tough or threatening, it just made it look like the designers were cheating. Again, with the exception of having a motivation beyond 'space racist', she is just like Kai Leng.

[KaiserShep]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Because Vasir has a genuinely tough boss fight to beat, requiring a massive chase, foot pursuit and eventual one on one battle to beat. Because she's deceitful, conniving, resourceful, can improvise when need be, and has a genuinely complex motivation for her work. That she was wounded, but managed to keep on fighting without being too annoying. And that she dies like a complete boss, no whining or self-doubt, just one final middle finger at Shepard's self-righteousness. Damned if I can't respect the hell out of that in an adversary.

Leng's a mook who wants to advance one species, Vasir (and I can't believe the words are coming out of my mouth) has a more meaningful characterisation. Is she a hero who helps keep the Citadel safe? Is she a rogue agent who crossed the line? Or is she just an evil person who justifies her deeds with fancy speeches? Depending on how you play your Shepard, her words can strike a chord, any way you choose to take them.

I didn't see Vasir's boss battle as particularly difficult. Aside from her biotic charge, she wasn't all that deadly. I thought Enyala was tougher to beat than she was, even without the charge, because she was more aggressive and used a more powerful weapon (a claymore iirc). If not for that charge and the merc/turret waves, that battle would've been over a lot sooner. It had a great sense of fun though, since it had a great soundtrack and backdrop, but I've been able to knock her off the map with a well-placed biotic charge more than once, which instantly ends the battle.

She does have more intrigue and character than Leng, but his boss battle is still more challenging, even if it's not that hard for more experienced players.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Why was I fighting Vasir again? Even if she comes off as a bit arrogant, she's still useful. I agree with what she says, and her philosophy, as does my Shepard. I'd have been fine giving her and the Broker Liara. Only issue is her speech, which did come across as self-righteous in and of itself. She basically strawman's my Shepard by saying he's a self-righteous idiot who's blaming her for working with the Shadow Broker when he himself was a Cerberus Agent. My Shepard never said such things, even commending her on resourcefulness of taking a hostage, but reminding her that she was dealing with the OTHER Spectre who is perfectly fine killing innocents to achieve his goal. That tactic doesn't work on Shepard. He just shoots through the hostage. And when my Shepard finally goes to get answers about the SB, such as why he wanted to hand my body over to the Collector's, or why I haven't gotten paid back for giving him that intel on Cerberus 2 years ago, or why she's even trying to kill Liara and I in the first place when I just wanted to facilitate dialogue between Liara and the SB so that could get them to overcome their issues and work together to establish an intelligence network that would be prepared for the coming war, she gives me a reason you suck speech that is rather unwarranted. Yeah, I do all those things you said I do. But I never condemned you for blowing up a building. I even complimented you for your brutal tactics, even if you failed to realize that they weren't going to work on me. Combat wise, yes you were a very strong fighter and worthy of being a Spectre, but, and this is just me, you simply weren't anywhere close to my caliber. And now you're being a ****.

Granted, I think she overdid it blowing up a building to kill 2 people. Not that I believe it crosses any moral lines (necessity knows no law afterall), but it wasn't a clean job. Granted, she wasn't the planner of that op. That was the Shadow Brokers personal army that did that. Superfluous, and too public. Getting Liara in a situation where she was at a mental disadvantage (and prone to making mistakes) would be best, as well as bugging her car's engine. Or sniper from distance outside her apartment. Or get local law enforcement and security to work against her. Frame her for something. Lots of other, easier, and relatively cleaner ways to get her out of the way.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 09 novembre 2013 - 01:30 .

[Xilizhra]

And then, at the end of LotSB, you get to choose whether or not to ascend Liara to complete control of the network, or turn on her in favour of getting the current Shadow Network onside, and getting Vasir as a squadmate.

Ah, that intention was completely not telegraphed. No, I rather think I'm happy with the way things went.

Getting Liara in a situation where she was at a mental disadvantage (and prone to making mistakes) would be best, as well as bugging her car's engine. Or sniper from distance outside her apartment. Or get local law enforcement and security to work against her. Frame her for something. Lots of other, easier, and relatively cleaner ways to get her out of the way.

They tried sniping, but it failed.

[AlexMBrennan]

My Shepard never said such things

Your Shepard agreed to help Liara take out the SB (who would obviously retaliate to protect is network) so you are flat out wrong; by making your Shepard acting out of character you get silly results.

And I really wish that Bioware hadn't introduced the idea of the Spectres - that way righteous sadists who probably masturbate over SAW would have to find another place to troll.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 09 novembre 2013 - 01:55 .

[Display Name Owner]

Haven't read the 45 other pages, but I agree with most of what OP says for Garrus and Liara.

I did find Garrus' whole thing very cool, but yeah, not incredibly logical. Well... I don't know actually. IIRC He says he got tired of getting nowhere with getting people to do something about the Reapers, so he went somewhere where he actually could make a difference. I can understand that, but at the same time it seems foolish of a guy like him to have just gotten "tired" and given up when he knows the fate of the entire galaxy is in the balance.

So maybe he should either have worked to become a Spectre or worked his way up C-Sec, so that he could become someone people would listen to and be able to actually do something regarding the Reapers. Actually it might have been better if he ignored C-Sec and the Spectres and became a person of authority in the Turian Hierarchy. Not something silly like Tali becoming an Admiral, but he could have become some kind of commander type guy.

In Liara's case I most definitely don't think she should ever have been a squaddie. I know she's a Biotic, but she doesn't really have any more business being on a battlefield next to special operatives than Dr. Chakwas does.

Furthermore I don't know what to think about her becoming the Shadow Broker. The SB angle is one I definitely would have liked to spend more time on, but maybe not through her. Her transition from meek scientist to information broker on a Terminus planet is massively jarring and pretty ridiculous, truth be told. And the reason she does it all, to save some character who actually betrayed her once if I remember right, it just means nothing to me. Out of all the characters I think her story should be the most different.

Becoming more hardened was a good development for her, although I'll admit she seems to switch between that and awkward scientist whenever it suits the writers' purposes. I get that characters can be multifaceted, but she feels like she's badass when it's cool and meek when it's cute and it's kind of odd now that I think about it. So a little more consistency wouldn't hurt. She shouldn't have stayed as she was in 1, just to clarify, but I reckon they took the hardening too far sometimes.

Anyway, I think she should have stuck to the Protheans, and that would of course require the Protheans being more important to the final resolution, which I'd also like. Unearthing the Crucible and parts of it should have been Liara's whole thing in ME3 I'd say, not just an "oh hey, I found this thing between 2 and 3. Now I'll Shadow Broke". So in short, more archaeology and knowledge digging, less criminal masterminding.

[Xilizhra]

In Liara's case I most definitely don't think she should ever have been a squaddie. I know she's a Biotic, but she doesn't really have any more business being on a battlefield next to special operatives than Dr. Chakwas does.

You directly contradicted yourself within a single sentence. In any case, she's not just a biotic, she's an excellent biotic.

[Display Name Owner]

^ How so? I can make use of a gun, in fact I'm a fairly good shot. That doesn't mean I should be carrying out military strikes with a squad of elites, does it?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

In Liara's case I most definitely don't think she should ever have been a squaddie. I know she's a Biotic, but she doesn't really have any more business being on a battlefield next to special operatives than Dr. Chakwas does.

You directly contradicted yourself within a single sentence. In any case, she's not just a biotic, she's an excellent biotic.

She's not a soldier, she has no military training, she freaks out and has shown herself unable to handle stresses in combat. She doesn't belong on the battlefield.

As far as biotics go, I'd rather have every other biotic squadmate than her.

[KaiserShep]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Why was I fighting Vasir again?

Through it all, Vasir is just another mook, just another foil of the shadow broker who is no different from the mercs we toss off of his ship or blast in the corridors.

Granted, I think she overdid it blowing up a building to kill 2 people. Not that I believe it crosses any moral lines (necessity knows no law afterall), but it wasn't a clean job. Granted, she wasn't the planner of that op. That was the Shadow Brokers personal army that did that. Superfluous, and too public. Getting Liara in a situation where she was at a mental disadvantage (and prone to making mistakes) would be best, as well as bugging her car's engine. Or sniper from distance outside her apartment. Or get local law enforcement and security to work against her. Frame her for something. Lots of other, easier, and relatively cleaner ways to get her out of the way.

I would say that is much more than overdoing it. In that instance, any complaints from Vasir about Cerberus being terrorists goes right out the window. For all their shenanigans, they haven't resorted to that sort of nonsense (yet). This essentially makes the shadow broker a corrupt, violent extremist, and that alone makes him deserving of death. But then, the shadow broker is a yagh. Judging by the fact that they even resorted to bombing a building, I wouldn't put much faith in their ability to show finesse.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 09 novembre 2013 - 05:43 .

[Han Shot First]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In Liara's case I most definitely don't think she should ever have been a squaddie. I know she's a Biotic, but she doesn't really have any more business being on a battlefield next to special operatives than Dr. Chakwas does.

You directly contradicted yourself within a single sentence. In any case, she's not just a biotic, she's an excellent biotic.

She's not a soldier, she has no military training, she freaks out and has shown herself unable to handle stresses in combat. She doesn't belong on the battlefield.

As far as biotics go, I'd rather have every other biotic squadmate than her.

The first two parts of that statement are true; she isn't a soldier and she doesn't have any military training. After joining the Normandy however there was never a point  where she was unable to handle herself in combat.

That Liara is able to integreate seamlessly into a special operations unit requires some suspension of disbelief, which is why I would have changed Liara's background to include some prior military service before she went on to become a scientist. I'd rather no suspension of disbelief was required.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 09 novembre 2013 - 05:39 .

[Barquiel]

Both Mordin and Miranda tell you they're primarily scientists. Culturally, Tali is a quarian teenager in ME1. Kasumi is a thief. Jack doesn't have a military background. Not everyone is our squads is an "elite soldier". Sure...I guess it would be more realistic to have a squad of 10 "James Vegas" for missions, but this is one of the cases where I prefer fun over realism.

[KaiserShep]

Eh Mordin is kind of an exception, since he was STG, so in his case, he has the background to warrant being part of a combat team. I was certain that Miranda has something too, but I can't remember.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 09 novembre 2013 - 05:45 .

[Barquiel]

That's why I said they're primarily scientists. Mordin is described as an expert geneticist/professor/scientist. I doubt the Salarians would send him on combat missions. I mean, we know that his last mission in the STG before retiring involved the study of the krogan genophage....and not killing some mercs 

He obviously can defend himself ofc.

Modifié par Barquiel, 09 novembre 2013 - 05:52 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Barquiel wrote...
Both Mordin and Miranda tell you they're primarily scientists.

 

Untrue for Miranda. She never directly states that she is primarily a scientist to my knowledge. She states that she has the best combat training that money can buy (which is pretty decent if we look at it from a modern perspective where some civilians do pay thousands of dollars to learn how to do things they could have done by simply enlisting in their countries military in a combat oriented skill), and being who she is, it is not surprising (indeed, I'd expect it) that she is a master of several fields. Plus, working for Cerberus as TIM's right-hand woman means that she's going to be a lot more than just a scientist. 

Mordin meanwhile is indeed a scientist. And he was also a former STG Operator. He has the military and operational skills to back himself up.

Not to mention that just because Miranda and Mordin happen to be scientists means that they'd have to be encumbered with simply being a scientist, which Liara more or less is.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

KaiserShep wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Why was I fighting Vasir again?

Through it all, Vasir is just another mook, just another foil of the shadow broker who is no different from the mercs we toss off of his ship or blast in the corridors.

True. She never strikes me as someone who would be a real challenge for Shepard. She'd be a useful person to have on your side of course - any Spectre would be - but she's not anywhere at Shepard's level. She mentions how well regarded Shepard is in the Spectre community by asking him to sign her breast plate.

Granted, I think she overdid it blowing up a building to kill 2 people. Not that I believe it crosses any moral lines (necessity knows no law afterall), but it wasn't a clean job. Granted, she wasn't the planner of that op. That was the Shadow Brokers personal army that did that. Superfluous, and too public. Getting Liara in a situation where she was at a mental disadvantage (and prone to making mistakes) would be best, as well as bugging her car's engine. Or sniper from distance outside her apartment. Or get local law enforcement and security to work against her. Frame her for something. Lots of other, easier, and relatively cleaner ways to get her out of the way.

I would say that is much more than overdoing it. In that instance, any complaints from Vasir about Cerberus being terrorists goes right out the window. For all their shenanigans, they haven't resorted to that sort of nonsense (yet). This essentially makes the shadow broker a corrupt, violent extremist, and that alone makes him deserving of death. But then, the shadow broker is a yagh. Judging by the fact that they even resorted to bombing a building, I wouldn't put much faith in their ability to show finesse.

Yeah, she did organize an excessive amount of force, which by all pretense makes her a terrorist. And it wasn't for a compelling reason. I see the logic behind her actions, but they could have been accomplished in much less open and violent means. I'm not angry that she killed innocents - I'd do it too if I had a strong enough reason too - but I'm thinking she's reckless, and senselessly violent. 

As for the Broker, he didn't organize the bombing. And yes, as a Yahg, he's naturally very aggressive and violent (especially if you ****** him off), but he's also very cunning, intelligent, and quite a magnificent bastard. I'd love to have him as an ally. In fact, given what I had done for him previously, I wanted to know why we couldn't  be allies. 

His troops reputation is pretty much grossly overstated, however. They're dedicated and useful, but they aren't creative or disciplined, and they're very sloppy.

[Barquiel]

By Miranda's own admission she's not generally been involved with the 'military side' of Cerberus. Most of Miranda's leadership involved administering technical and scientific programs (like the Lazarus project), a position for which she is excellently suited. The only squadmembers of the Normandy (in ME2) I would consider Miranda clearly superior to in terms of combat training would be Tali, Jack, Kasumi and maybe Mordin. But "realistically", I would never choose her over characters like Samara, Zaeed or Garrus.

Modifié par Barquiel, 09 novembre 2013 - 06:16 .

[Killdren88]

I'd make Harbinger go through his own metamorphosis. While EDI showed the better traits of a Synthetic learning about emotions, Harbinger could have showed a synthetic learning the negative ones. Feeling anger as Shepars foils his plans....a dose of sadism as he begins to use less efficient means of Harvest and begins to use more brutal means leaving other Reapers to question why he would opt out of the more efficient method. And being and Shepard can goad him on his anger saying he sounds just like an organic making Harbinger go full denial and develops insanity.

[rekn2]

Ravensword wrote...

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

'Pure badass'?

Sorry. 'Don't judge me' is not badass. It's something I would expect to hear from the more...13 year old girl on Facebook crowd?

But I am the law. 

I am the law.

loved that movie!

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Barquiel wrote...
By Miranda's own admission she's not generally been involved with the 'military side' of Cerberus.

There was no admission of any kind on this. She stated that the experiments in ME1 were conducted by the military branch of Cerberus. There's no indication anywhere that she never had a hand in something, though I do find it unlikely that she did anything that Petrovsky or Shepard did. 

That said, as seen in ME Galaxy, and by the sound of Foundation #5 and #6 synopsis, she did work as an intelligence and field officer/operator - a spy. Is she a military professional? No. But does that lower her capability or lethality in the field? No.

Most of Miranda's leadership involved administering technical and scientific programs (like the Lazarus project), a position for which she is excellently suited.

I agree with the second part, but for the first part, I'm not entirely sure this is accurate in whole. As I stated, from ME Galaxy and Foundation, it's clear she's done a lot more than just administration and science. She's TIM's second - As I said, she's most likely going to be not only capable in a variety of fields, but exceeding the norm for most of them as well.

The only squadmembers of the Normandy (in ME2) I would consider Miranda clearly superior to in terms of combat training would be Tali, Jack, Kasumi and maybe Mordin. But "realistically", I would never choose her over characters like Samara, Zaeed or Garrus.

For direct combat, no I wouldn't take her. That's not her specialty. Her specialty would be more of leadership in clandestine field teams or espionage activity, though I feel she'd be just as competent at independent individual action as she would be as a leader.

[Made Nightwing]

Tbh, after I picked up Samara in ME2, I didn't really bother with any of the other biotic characters. I just rotate Garrus and Zaeed through the team roster after that.

If we're talking lore instead of gameplay, then I think Miranda likely has a knack for CQB shooting and hand to hand, considering she is as perfect as a human can get, and CQB is all about reflexes and situation awareness (two things Miranda strikes me as possessing in abundance). She's not a soldier, she's a force multiplier.

I think the gameplay exaggerates her leadership abilities a bit. There's no doubt she wields authority expertly, in terms of getting people already on the same side to work together, but she doesn't quite have the ability to tame forceful personalities like Jack and Zaeed like Shepard, or possess the field leadership experience that make Garrus and Jacob noteworthy.

That said, from what the lore implies, she seems to pick up skills easily, and some people think that real leadership can be learnt, so who knows.

[TheMyron]

If only Shepard was able to at least try to help Vasir once he caught up with her and/or once she was defeated. I hate how Shepard just sits there and talks with her. As she is trying to flee, beg her to stop and accept his help, he has medi-gel after all.

[General TSAR]

"Beg"? A man/woman like Shepard should never beg.

Speaking of which, remove Shep's "PLEASE!!" line during the assault on TIM's crib.

[Xilizhra]

As for the Broker, he didn't organize the bombing. And yes, as a Yahg, he's naturally very aggressive and violent (especially if you ****** him off), but he's also very cunning, intelligent, and quite a magnificent bastard. I'd love to have him as an ally. In fact, given what I had done for him previously, I wanted to know why we couldn't be allies.

Because he would sell you out in an instant if the Reapers didn't seem to be able to be beaten... in fact, that's what he already did.

[RZIBARA]

General TSAR wrote...

"Beg"? A man/woman like Shepard should never beg.

Speaking of which, remove Shep's "PLEASE!!" line during the assault on TIM's crib.

yeah, that one word made me cringe lol