55 réponses à ce sujet

[Vulpe]

double post

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 05 novembre 2013 - 10:50 .

[Estelindis]

JulianWellpit wrote...

@Estelindis : Becoming like blood mages - no. They wouldn't end up possesed ( at least not like a mage ) . Transforming them in paranoid,violent warriors and ultimately, in the final stages ( Behemonth ), in beasts - yes. While a mages action are controlled by an intelligent demon (more or less), a Red Templar would slowly become a beast.

But I understand what are you trying to say. They will become a destructive force that would destroy everything they should protect.

PS: I'm not saying that every blood mage is evil or that a templar couldn't resist the temptation.Just that most blood mages end up that way, and from what we've seen, so does the Red Templars.

Actually, what I mean is that, if this theory is true, the Red Templars would be tapping into their bodies magically to obtain greater power, like blood mages.

Edit: And, it occurs to me, if the red lyrium grows stronger with each user, as per the initial hypothesis, they would also be tapping into the bodies of others, in a way.  But I'm not sure that it does work like this.

Modifié par Estelindis, 05 novembre 2013 - 10:53 .

[Vulpe]

Yes, there you're right. They would go from the normal lyrium to red lyrium like a mage that goes from normal to blood magic. I don't know what sounds more scary - losing control of yourself to a demonic power or slowly transforming into a mindless beast.

[David7204]

Not Ellsworth Toohey?

[Potato Cat]

My theory is that there is some sort of collection of consciousnesses stored inside the Red Lyrium somehow that slowly drive people mad by playing on their insecurities and fears. I think that Meredith is now part of this collection.

As for the idol itself, I really doubt that it's dwarven. It looks like it could be either elven or human, or something else of course. And we've yet to see any of the symptoms of Red Lyrium, or even regular lyrium in elves!

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...

So... this would logically mean that all templars who had left the Chantry's lyrium pipeline turned to red lyrium to feed their addictions, due to its self-replicating properties...

Most, most intriguing.

Why would it mean that? If there's a group called "Red" templars, it suggests the opposite: that only some templars turned to red lyrium. 

[Xilizhra]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So... this would logically mean that all templars who had left the Chantry's lyrium pipeline turned to red lyrium to feed their addictions, due to its self-replicating properties...

Most, most intriguing.

Why would it mean that? If there's a group called "Red" templars, it suggests the opposite: that only some templars turned to red lyrium. 

The others presumably stayed with the Chantry to suck their lyrium pipes.

[EmperorSahlertz]

All 15 Knight-Commanders of Thedas apears to have left the Chantry. If any remained behind, they aren't Templars anymore.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

All 15 Knight-Commanders of Thedas apears to have left the Chantry. If any remained behind, they aren't Templars anymore.

Presumably they're non-heretical, non-treacherous templars. Just because, say, South Carolina secedes from the Union wouldn't make all of its people not American if they chose to stay loyal (perhaps there'd be legal malarkey, but that's less important than morality).

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

All 15 Knight-Commanders of Thedas apears to have left the Chantry. If any remained behind, they aren't Templars anymore.

Presumably they're non-heretical, non-treacherous templars. Just because, say, South Carolina secedes from the Union wouldn't make all of its people not American if they chose to stay loyal (perhaps there'd be legal malarkey, but that's less important than morality).

Again with the heresy. That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Anyway...

If South Carolina were to succesfully seperate itself from the USA, then yes, the population of that state would no longer be US citizens. And that is despite where their loyalties lie.

[TEWR]

Sorry OP, THIS is the ultimate parasite.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

All 15 Knight-Commanders of Thedas apears to have left the Chantry. If any remained behind, they aren't Templars anymore.

Eh, we can't say there are only fifteen KCs in Thedas. Ferelden has three, the Free Marches had at least two, and who knows how many the other nations have.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 novembre 2013 - 12:35 .

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

All 15 Knight-Commanders of Thedas apears to have left the Chantry. If any remained behind, they aren't Templars anymore.

Presumably they're non-heretical, non-treacherous templars. Just because, say, South Carolina secedes from the Union wouldn't make all of its people not American if they chose to stay loyal (perhaps there'd be legal malarkey, but that's less important than morality).

Again with the heresy. That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Anyway...

If South Carolina were to succesfully seperate itself from the USA, then yes, the population of that state would no longer be US citizens. And that is despite where their loyalties lie.

We shall see what view of the word the devs have, then.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

All 15 Knight-Commanders of Thedas apears to have left the Chantry. If any remained behind, they aren't Templars anymore.

Eh, we can't say there are only fifteen KCs in Thedas. Ferelden has three, the Free Marches had at least two, and who knows how many the other nations have.

15 Knight-Commanders mean that there would be between 2-3 Knight-Commander in every Andrastian nation. Seems to add up with the amount of them we've encountered so far.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

All 15 Knight-Commanders of Thedas apears to have left the Chantry. If any remained behind, they aren't Templars anymore.

Eh, we can't say there are only fifteen KCs in Thedas. Ferelden has three, the Free Marches had at least two, and who knows how many the other nations have.

15 Knight-Commanders mean that there would be between 2-3 Knight-Commander in every Andrastian nation. Seems to add up with the amount of them we've encountered so far.

Maybe. There are six White Chantry nations, which could mean there are 2-3 Knight Commanders that are absolutely loyal to the Chantry and Divine Justinia V -- and there SHOULD be -- who have brought their troops over.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Obviously the Templars were more loyal to their own Order than the Chantry.

[The Qun & the Damned]

That is probably one of the most terrifying, if not very interesting, theories about red lyrium I've ever heard.

[TKavatar]

I noticed in the Pax demo that the Red Templars were assaulting the village, throwing red light projectiles at it.

It could be something like blood magic or else related to the Templar abilities a templar gets when using blue lyrium.

[Vulpe]

TKavatar wrote...

I noticed in the Pax demo that the Red Templars were assaulting the village, throwing red light projectiles at it.

It could be something like blood magic or else related to the Templar abilities a templar gets when using blue lyrium.

I've noticed that too.If my theory is true then the red lyrium is a kind of indirect blood magic. The lyrium does feed on its host blood energy, then it directs some of it or some previously storet to him/her. I doubt that the red thing is actually enchanted blood because :

1) If my theory is correct, the lyrium would lose a huge quantity of its host energy with every attack.

2) If a templar, even if he's affected by the lyrium, would stop or at least try to do it if he suddently sees blood coming out from himself and killing his enemy. They might go mad, but until a certain point they would still keep most of their sanity intact. A Red Templar trying to resist the temptation of using this lyrium and his struggle to withdrawal from its use would be a pretty thing to see and would bring a human aspect to them, as they seem to lack it for now. ( personal opinion. no bashing )

Most probably its just energy in a plasmatic state that simply destroys and/or burns what it touches.

EDIT

I've remembered one interesting thing that I will add to my original post.
In the final fight, Meredith animated the statues in The Gallows to help her in battle. Now that brings up the question : Who actually controled them ? Was it she or was it the lyrium ? That also brings us back to my final question : could red lyrium be sentient ? 

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 06 novembre 2013 - 09:18 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

JulianWellpit wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

First of all, how do we know that is self replicating?

By transforming its users in lyrium statues ( Meredith ) or lyrium giants ( the Behemoths ). I think I explained it quite well at point 2). If you have any more unclarities feel free to ask.

Just because it's rediish and mineral-looking, doesn't mean it's actual red lyrium.

Magic can change the body and we've seen demons being able to morph a normal body into a huilking brute.

Just saying, the self-replicating might be jumping the gun here.

[Vulpe]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Just because it's rediish and mineral-looking, doesn't mean it's actual red lyrium.

Magic can change the body and we've seen demons being able to morph a normal body into a huilking brute.

Just saying, the self-replicating might be jumping the gun here.

Its just speculation on my part. I don't take it as an absolute, imbattable explination, not until we get some official imformation that might support or demolish it.

I did find it pretty strange that the Red Templars  seem to have acces to enough red lyrium to build weapons from it. Let's not forget that the only known place where it could be found is The Primeval Thaig. Even if those templars found the location of the thaig, it would be pretty hard to obtain it from there. The self replication theory is a pretty good way to explain how they get so much red lyrium and why they no longer need the lyrium supplies from The Chantry. Everything started with Meredith's transformation.

Still, it's just a theory that awaits to be approved or disapproved by some official information.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 06 novembre 2013 - 10:13 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

RED lightsaber = sith = evil
RED option = agressive/renegade = mostly a douche
RED lyrium = madness
RED Tempalrs = ?

Is it me or does EA/Bio LOVE color-coding things too much?

[Kidd]

UC SIM wrote...

I Believe the Red Lyrium may once have been worshiped as a god by the Dwarfs of old.
My reasonings.

Modern dwarves do not worship a god instead they honour ancestors expecially those elivated to paragon.
However they do hold a certain reverie for the 'stone'.
Is it possible that dwarfs of old once worshiped a sentient rock? - The Red Lyrium?
I believe they may have. While in the Primeval Thaig we meet a new demon, rock wraiths otherwise know as Profane.

The Nexus Golem also says "The Stone lives beneath Orlais. Mathas gar na fornen pa salroka atrast." What language could that be? It sounds the closest to Qunlat, but there's not really anything recognisable in there. It could be a lost language, perhaps spoken beneath Orlais.

If the Stone is red lyrium, that could go along with the dwarves of the primeval thaig and other ancient dwarves indeed treating red lyrium like it was a divine treasure. Secularised dwarves would keep the word "Stone" in phrases without truly knowing the full meaning of its original intent similar to how I can find traces of several religions in Swedish.

Considering it's been seemingly planned all along that we were to head toward Orlais in DA3 before DA3 even became Inquisition, it hardly seems a coincidence that The Stone itself may be found in the area we traverse as we fight the red templars. It all seems connected.

In other words, the original source for the self-replicating red lyrium the red templars use in Inquisition could come from the Stone from beneath Orlais. Whatever happened with Meredith likely could have led to the discovery of the Stone one way or the other.

JulianWellpit wrote...

If my theory is true then the red lyrium is a kind of indirect blood magic.

Red lyrium could also be related to lyrium in a similar manner to how blood magic is related to normal magic, indeed. I say that because the Nexus Golem also says "Amgarrak tapped the blood, spilled within the Stone."

[Vulpe]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

RED lightsaber = sith = evil
RED option = agressive/renegade = mostly a douche
RED lyrium = madness
RED Tempalrs = ?

Is it me or does EA/Bio LOVE color-coding things too much?

I think it has more to do with the old cliche that associates red with evil ( like black ) that can be seen not only in BW and EA products, but everywhere in our pop culture. I understand what you are saying; crimson's my favorite color and I get sometimes annoyed that the red cool weapons and other stuff are many times for the baddies because I always play as a good guy (or at least what I consider to be the right thing to do ). I would have liked if this new lyrium type would have been another color like yellow,orange or purple... but hey, red is beautiful and cool. ( and red lyriums seems to be pretty badass on it's own)   

EDIT

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

The Nexus Golem also says "The Stone lives beneath Orlais. Mathas gar na fornen pa salroka atrast." What language could that be? It sounds the closest to Qunlat, but there's not really anything recognisable in there. It could be a lost language, perhaps spoken beneath Orlais.

If the Stone is red lyrium, that could go along with the dwarves of the primeval thaig and other ancient dwarves indeed treating red lyrium like it was a divine treasure. Secularised dwarves would keep the word "Stone" in phrases without truly knowing the full meaning of its original intent similar to how I can find traces of several religions in Swedish.

Considering it's been seemingly planned all along that we were to head toward Orlais in DA3 before DA3 even became Inquisition, it hardly seems a coincidence that The Stone itself may be found in the area we traverse as we fight the red templars. It all seems connected.

In other words, the original source for the self-replicating red lyrium the red templars use in Inquisition could come from the Stone from beneath Orlais. Whatever happened with Meredith likely could have led to the discovery of the Stone one way or the other.

JulianWellpit wrote...

If my theory is true then the red lyrium is a kind of indirect blood magic.

Red lyrium could also be related to lyrium in a similar manner to how blood magic is related to normal magic, indeed. I say that because the Nexus Golem also says "Amgarrak tapped the blood, spilled within the Stone."

You might have something going there. Just some questions - How would the templars find the Stone beneah Orlais and extract lyrium from there? Let's assume that they know the location - wouldn't it be dangerous  ? It could go from The Deep Roads and even below them. Considering the difficulty of obtaining it and that they are not dwarves,so they could easely get lost, would it be a good plan using the red lyrium to make weapons from it ? Wouldn't keeping the shards as pendants be a smarter way of conserving their supplies and save some of their forces that could be lost venturing in The Deep Roads ? 

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 06 novembre 2013 - 02:09 .

[BigEvil]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...
The Nexus Golem also says "The Stone lives beneath Orlais. Mathas gar na fornen pa salroka atrast." What language could that be? It sounds the closest to Qunlat, but there's not really anything recognisable in there. It could be a lost language, perhaps spoken beneath Orlais.

I think it's just Dwarven. Salroka and atrast are Dwarven words we've heard a bunch of of times in DA:O and DA2. I've never been clear on what the atrast vala phrase actually translates to, but Salroka just means friend, I think.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So... this would logically mean that all templars who had left the Chantry's lyrium pipeline turned to red lyrium to feed their addictions, due to its self-replicating properties...

Most, most intriguing.

Why would it mean that? If there's a group called "Red" templars, it suggests the opposite: that only some templars turned to red lyrium. 

The others presumably stayed with the Chantry to suck their lyrium pipes.

Oh I see what you're thinking. My understanding was that all templars took their ball and went home, but only some of them became "red" templars.