Star fury wrote...
Exactly. I like the logic of some posters in this thread - Ashley Williams is a racist, xenophobe who hates their precious asari or quarians or whatever. But they also blame her for not joining a racist, xenophobic organization who wants human supremacy in the Galaxy. Charming.
osbornep wrote...
It's worth keeping in mind that in the famous dog analogy, it's actually humanity that's being compared to the dog. The point is that just as we'll never have equal regard for the interests of our dogs as ourselves, alien states will never regard humanity's interests as being as important as their own. As far as her comments about religion, I don't remember the exact context, but I would resist the idea that "Having strong opinions that disagree with the PC's" = bad writing.
silverexile17s wrote...
I'm dissappointed that you think Ash's views on alians had anything to do with this when it doesn't. It's about her being too inflexible with her personal views to admit when she's wrong. That's regardless of how she feels about aliens. And BTW, the fact that she distrusts turians because of how the Alliance scapegoated her grandfather doesn't entail "biased" to you?
If you think that, you didn't play ME1. She's stubborn, brash, and more then a bit reckless. She has a very "black and white" view of life. And her "bear and the dog" analogy, she fails to realize applies to everyone -- ideals like hers are why no one trusts each-other in the galaxy. They're all afraid of being backstabbed, so they do it first. And again, as pointed out by the guards in the CIC, that's a hypocricy to blame the Council for not helping Earth, because if they were attacked and Earth wasn't, the Alliance would have done the same thing -- refused to help for fear of weakening their defense of Earth. She fails to realize that her assessment applies to the Alliance being dicks as well. And once again, only if you order her, not because she wants to or agrees with it -- you need someone that's not going to second-guess orders in a crisis.
iakus wrote...
Yup.
At least Ash never claimed the Maker actually spoke to her :innocent:
They're krogan. They're entire race is like that, so THEY don't have a choice. And in case you forgot, the entire reason Wrex becomes Clan Leader is to CHANGE that.RZIBARA wrote...
silverexile17s wrote...
No, it's yours. You are the one that thinks it's fine if a soldier harbors doubts about you, or refuses to air out any grudges when the entire galaxy is at stake. blah blah blah a bunch of useless garbageObadiah wrote...
It's your interpretation because you are the one requiring the apology in-game for her behavior. Not Shepard in-game, and not myself as another fellow player. This is the cause of your uncertainly with her... blah blah blah. I'm not sure how much more explicit and obvious that could be.silverexile17s wrote...
...
-Wrong. That's you refusing to acknowledge that she would rather ignore what happened there instead of clear the air. I mean, You yourself said in this very fourm that Kaidan talked it out more then Ash. He was more willing to resolve what happened on Horizon as opposed to burying it. How can it be my interpertation when you were the one to point out that Kaidan spoke more oepnly then Ash?
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and the krogan dont?
......
eyezonlyii wrote...
2 things:
Just because she has doubts, won't make her an effective soldier. So long as Shepard doesn't prove her wrong, there is nothing to worry about.
On the other hand, just because she doesn't tell you she won't doubt you, doesn't mean she will. Remember that story about her sister in ME1? "The Williams girls are a tough bunch, we'll come around when we decide to, not before." or something to that effect. I can't comment further, because I don't have an Ashley playthrough yet.
silverexile17s wrote...
They're a living race. Any race capible of sentiance is. And slaughter of a sentient, living race is genocide.RZIBARA wrote...
the geth are goddamn machines, what damn genocide are you talking about?
i like the geth and all, but calling it genocide is a joke
Wrong. I have more respect for Kaidan - but when did I ever say I LIKED him?Obadiah wrote...
Sure, it is obvious that you like Kaiden more than Ashley, and you don't know what "interpretation" or "opinon" are.silverexile17s wrote...
...
"I'm not sure how much more explict and obvious that could be."
No, it isn't -- they're living beings. "I think, therefore I am." Life has millions of different forms -- hell, the hanar are talking jellyfish for God's sake. The only requirement on living beings is their capasity to think -- if they have that spark of sentience, it makes them a living being.Necanor wrote...
silverexile17s wrote...
They're a living race. Any race capible of sentiance is. And slaughter of a sentient, living race is genocide.RZIBARA wrote...
the geth are goddamn machines, what damn genocide are you talking about?
i like the geth and all, but calling it genocide is a joke
Oh please, killing an animal is worse than killing a Geth.
Modifié par silverexile17s, 12 novembre 2013 - 06:26 .
That's not true because of the Reaper upgrades the geth had propelled them to full sentiance. Shepard comments on this -- "That's a living creature, no matter what platform it's running on."Br3ad wrote...
We on BSN don't know the real meanings of words. Genocide being a prime example. Genocide is not the killing or the attempt there of, of an ethnic group. It is the purposeful killing with malicious intent. If you killed the geth on Rannoch, they weren't sentient. And if you picked Destroy to slaughter them, why didn't you just kill them on Rannoch? There is no genocide either way.
When you kill them they don't have the Reaper upgrades.silverexile17s wrote...
That's not true because of the Reaper upgrades the geth had propelled them to full sentiance. Shepard comments on this -- "That's a living creature, no matter what platform it's running on."Br3ad wrote...
We on BSN don't know the real meanings of words. Genocide being a prime example. Genocide is not the killing or the attempt there of, of an ethnic group. It is the purposeful killing with malicious intent. If you killed the geth on Rannoch, they weren't sentient. And if you picked Destroy to slaughter them, why didn't you just kill them on Rannoch? There is no genocide either way.
So either way, it is genocide.
This seemed like a flame thread from the start and we already have plenty.PS - this is derailing the topic. Can we get back it instead of debating synthetics and genocide, because there are forms for that.
Br3ad wrote...
We on BSN don't know the real meanings of words. Genocide being a prime example. Genocide is not the killing or the attempt there of, of an ethnic group. It is the purposeful killing with malicious intent. If you killed the geth on Rannoch, they weren't sentient. And if you picked Destroy to slaughter them, why didn't you just kill them on Rannoch? There is no genocide either way.
Modifié par Star fury, 12 novembre 2013 - 06:33 .
You mean by serving to slap us in the face with the self-rightious religious stuff? Hell, I don't normally agree with either @Ryzaki, @Xilizhara, or @Barquil on things (like the geth vs quarian debates), but I do agree with them that Ashley wasn't all that easy to get on with with the self-rightious "black and white" view of everything.Star fury wrote...
iakus wrote...
Yup. Probably the best conversation in the whole script and it ends up on the cutting room floor.
Yeah, it's a very intriguing dialog and the religion was one of her defining characteristics.
1)They're still sentiant. 1,000 geth form a Legion-level being. They all possess sentiance. The problem is that they need to be interconnected for it to be substantial. The Rachni can have a spread-out intillect, but if the geth have one, it's not considered life? Life doesn't have restrictions like that.Br3ad wrote...
When you kill them they don't have the Reaper upgrades.silverexile17s wrote...
That's not true because of the Reaper upgrades the geth had propelled them to full sentiance. Shepard comments on this -- "That's a living creature, no matter what platform it's running on."Br3ad wrote...
We on BSN don't know the real meanings of words. Genocide being a prime example. Genocide is not the killing or the attempt there of, of an ethnic group. It is the purposeful killing with malicious intent. If you killed the geth on Rannoch, they weren't sentient. And if you picked Destroy to slaughter them, why didn't you just kill them on Rannoch? There is no genocide either way.
So either way, it is genocide.This seemed like a flame thread from the start and we already have plenty.PS - this is derailing the topic. Can we get back it instead of debating synthetics and genocide, because there are forms for that.
Modifié par silverexile17s, 12 novembre 2013 - 06:36 .
silverexile17s wrote...
No, it isn't -- they're living beings. "I think, therefore I am." Life has millions of different forms -- hell, the hanar are talking jellyfish for God's sake. The only requirement on living beings is their capasity to think -- if they have that spark of sentience, it makes them a living being.Necanor wrote...
Oh please, killing an animal is worse than killing a Geth.
On a side note, this is derailing the topic.
Modifié par Necanor, 12 novembre 2013 - 06:35 .
Sentience does. Life has restictions like being organic, which they aren't.silverexile17s wrote...
1)They're still sentiant. 1,000 geth form a Legion-level being. They all possess sentiance. The problem is that they need to be interconnected for it to be substantial. The Rachni can have a spread-out intillect, but if the geth have one, it's not considered life? Life doesn't have restrictions like that.Br3ad wrote...
When you kill them they don't have the Reaper upgrades.silverexile17s wrote...
That's not true because of the Reaper upgrades the geth had propelled them to full sentiance. Shepard comments on this -- "That's a living creature, no matter what platform it's running on."Br3ad wrote...
We on BSN don't know the real meanings of words. Genocide being a prime example. Genocide is not the killing or the attempt there of, of an ethnic group. It is the purposeful killing with malicious intent. If you killed the geth on Rannoch, they weren't sentient. And if you picked Destroy to slaughter them, why didn't you just kill them on Rannoch? There is no genocide either way.
So either way, it is genocide.This seemed like a flame thread from the start and we already have plenty.PS - this is derailing the topic. Can we get back it instead of debating synthetics and genocide, because there are forms for that.
Not my point. My point is that there is no discussion to continue, and I'm not an Ashley hater so why would I troll here?2) So that's your goal? Troll the page for the lolz? And after you griped about BSN people being immature about stuff?
The definition of genocide won't match the legal version of it. Plus would we ever commit genocide without malicous intent against ourselves? Really?Star fury wrote...
Br3ad wrote...
We on BSN don't know the real meanings of words. Genocide being a prime example. Genocide is not the killing or the attempt there of, of an ethnic group. It is the purposeful killing with malicious intent. If you killed the geth on Rannoch, they weren't sentient. And if you picked Destroy to slaughter them, why didn't you just kill them on Rannoch? There is no genocide either way.
Speak for yourself.
Genocide is a crime of intentional destruction of a national, ethnic, racial and religious group, in whole or in part. © UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.
Everything, my friend. Everything.P.S. What this has to do with Ashley?
Intelectual capacity is LIFE. The only requirement living beings need is the abilaty to think. To make their own concious choices. Killing them is the same as killing a living being. Sure, lots of people don't know this -- hell, the quarians attacked Rannoch because they didn't know the geth weren't remote-controled Reaper-drones.Necanor wrote...
silverexile17s wrote...
No, it isn't -- they're living beings. "I think, therefore I am." Life has millions of different forms -- hell, the hanar are talking jellyfish for God's sake. The only requirement on living beings is their capasity to think -- if they have that spark of sentience, it makes them a living being.Necanor wrote...
Oh please, killing an animal is worse than killing a Geth.
On a side note, this is derailing the topic.
Apes for example have the same intelectual capacity, but they're actually living beings. So yeah, killing them is worse than turning off a lamp head.
silverexile17s wrote...
You mean by serving to slap us in the face with the self-rightious religious stuff? Hell, I don't normally agree with either @Ryzaki, @Xilizhara, or @Barquil on things (like the geth vs quarian debates), but I do agree with them that Ashley wasn't all that easy to get on with with the self-rightious "black and white" view of everything.
1) Wrong. Those are just the restrictions we invented. The only one saying they exist is us humans-- and we aren't the all-knowing. Restrictions can't be applied to life. The very act of that borders on racisim. Hell, even the quarians accepted the geth were sentiant when they were driven from Rannoch at the end of the Morning War. Life has only one requirement -- the abilaty to think.Br3ad wrote...
Sentience does. Life has restictions like being organic, which they aren't.silverexile17s wrote...
1)They're still sentiant. 1,000 geth form a Legion-level being. They all possess sentiance. The problem is that they need to be interconnected for it to be substantial. The Rachni can have a spread-out intillect, but if the geth have one, it's not considered life? Life doesn't have restrictions like that.Br3ad wrote...
When you kill them they don't have the Reaper upgrades.silverexile17s wrote...
That's not true because of the Reaper upgrades the geth had propelled them to full sentiance. Shepard comments on this -- "That's a living creature, no matter what platform it's running on."Br3ad wrote...
We on BSN don't know the real meanings of words. Genocide being a prime example. Genocide is not the killing or the attempt there of, of an ethnic group. It is the purposeful killing with malicious intent. If you killed the geth on Rannoch, they weren't sentient. And if you picked Destroy to slaughter them, why didn't you just kill them on Rannoch? There is no genocide either way.
So either way, it is genocide.This seemed like a flame thread from the start and we already have plenty.PS - this is derailing the topic. Can we get back it instead of debating synthetics and genocide, because there are forms for that.
Not my point. My point is that there is no discussion to continue, and I'm not an Ashley hater so why would I troll here?2) So that's your goal? Troll the page for the lolz? And after you griped about BSN people being immature about stuff?
1) Since when do our laws apply to every living thing out there? And if you think that, you should read up on history pal -- sometimes a genocide is done to preserve something else, like against a plague.Br3ad wrote...
The definition of genocide won't match the legal version of it. Plus would we ever commit genocide without malicous intent against ourselves? Really?Star fury wrote...
Br3ad wrote...
We on BSN don't know the real meanings of words. Genocide being a prime example. Genocide is not the killing or the attempt there of, of an ethnic group. It is the purposeful killing with malicious intent. If you killed the geth on Rannoch, they weren't sentient. And if you picked Destroy to slaughter them, why didn't you just kill them on Rannoch? There is no genocide either way.
Speak for yourself.
Genocide is a crime of intentional destruction of a national, ethnic, racial and religious group, in whole or in part. © UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.Everything, my friend. Everything.P.S. What this has to do with Ashley?
You're a good person, Slotts. Never change.General Slotts wrote...
Ashley is a hoe of the highest order.
Modifié par Br3ad, 12 novembre 2013 - 06:46 .
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