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[Xilizhra]

Star fury wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's like racism, but for those of a different species rather than race. Also, I have no quarrel with either one's religious beliefs provided they don't include the notion that they're the only true religion.

Feel free to provide me with quotes that Ash "imply that it's foolish to not follow some sort of religion" or her religious beliefs include the notion that they're the only true religion. 

Damn, we don't even know what her religion is! Cristianity? Some sort of new religion?

For the latter, I said "Provided." I have no idea whether she thinks so or not. As for the former, it's the "How can you not believe in something?" line.

[Ryzaki]

Star fury wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's like racism, but for those of a different species rather than race. Also, I have no quarrel with either one's religious beliefs provided they don't include the notion that they're the only true religion.

Feel free to provide me with quotes that Ash "imply that it's foolish to not follow some sort of religion" or her religious beliefs include the notion that they're the only true religion. 

Damn, we don't even know what her religion is! Cristianity? Some sort of new religion?

"I mean hello? Have you looked out a window. How can you see that and not believe in something?" 

Now if Shep was to say something of the effects of "LOL how can you look at the galaxy and believe this is some "grand plan" or was purposely created." Would that not be implying it's foolish to BE religious?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 novembre 2013 - 03:28 .

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

No one argued that.

Perhaps not you.

Not a single person did

No they aren't female. Gender is a construct for reproductive purposes or has some genetic base. the asari have neither.

Asari are an all-female parthenogenic race.

No. They are race of blue people with no ground in actual science and were even created in game as nerd bait.

You aren't everyone. They are talking about the majority.

I'd love to see statistics on that.

Then by all means go make a poll. 

[Mathias]

Ryzaki wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Wrex: "Damn Turians and Salarians. Can't trust them."
Fans: "Yay Wrex! We love you!"

Javik: *Half his dialogue is being a douche to other races*
Fans: "Oooooh no he di'nt! :D"

Ashley: "This is the most advanced ship in the alliance fleet. Should we give them free reign of the ship?"
Fans: "KILL THE PIG! CUT HER THROAT! SPILL HER BLOOD!"

That's not really flattering her considering she's okay with Tali in the drive core (the one part of the ship that's human dominated) but has problems with Garrus (who's people helped make said ship) and Wrex (who's people probably would be incapable of mimicing said technology even if they did have the engineers for it). Meanwhile the one race she wasn't suspicious of is the one who gets a mini normandy. Wow. What smartz. Many wise. :innocent: I mean I value suspicion as much as the next person but it should at least be consistent and hit the right damn target.

Also isn't a point in her favor how she doesn't seem to consider that neither Anderson, Udina or Shepard already thought about this and considered it worth the risk.

Not sure about all that,  especially with Anderson, Udina, and Shepard thinking it's ok. Just because a few people think it's right doesn't really make it so. In this case they were but it's better to think for yourself first before following other people. That's what Shepard teaches Edi in ME3. But aside from that are we seriously gonna act as if someone like Wrex haven't had their moments of sheer stupidity? 

[Barquiel]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Wrex: "Damn Turians and Salarians. Can't trust them."
Fans: "Yay Wrex! We love you!"

Javik: *Half his dialogue is being a douche to other races*
Fans: "Oooooh no he di'nt! :D"

Ashley: "This is the most advanced ship in the alliance fleet. Should we give them free reign of the ship?"
Fans: "KILL THE PIG! CUT HER THROAT! SPILL HER BLOOD!"

I didn't even buy From Ashes because I know I would dislike Javik. Wrex does not like Turians and Salarians. He obviously has no problem with Asari, Hanar, Elcor, etc. That is a personal grudge against those civilizations who wronged his people (in his opinion). While I don't always agree with Wrex (I think he forgets that the Krogan were
also responsible for their actions), I can understand why he feels the way he does.

Yes, the roots of Ashley's prejudices are also explained in the first game (familiy history, etc.). But come ME2 one of her few pieces of dialogue is "I'm no fan of aliens"(= all non-humans, not just Turians). It's not as if she hasn't had the opportunity to change her views in light of the non-human crew's efforts to defeat Saren.

Modifié par Barquiel, 12 novembre 2013 - 03:31 .

[Star fury]

maaaad365 wrote...
She is too rough, reminds me of a drill seargeant , not a loving mother. In ME 1 and 2 she has her hair tied and she uses no make-up. I think that's what the developers meant for her character , to be nothing more than a perfect soldier (grunt) who believes strongly in the Alliance and never questions their policy.

Ashley is "a drill sergeant" or how they are called in the ME universe - the Gunnery Chief. She's not THAT rough like this drill instructor, but still.

[Star fury]

Barquiel wrote...

I am not saying that every NPC has to be a xenophile like Kelly and my Shep...or that xenophobic, ignorant, narrow minded and/or racist humans shouldn't exist in the ME universe. Or course they should exist (especially so soon after first contact), but that doesn't mean I have to like such characters or agree with their views

Yeah, and Ashley is not one of "xenophobic, ignorant, narrow minded and/or racist humans".

Modifié par Star fury, 12 novembre 2013 - 03:33 .

[Ryzaki]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
Not sure about all that,  especially with Anderson, Udina, and Shepard thinking it's ok. Just because a few people think it's right doesn't really make it so. In this case they were but it's better to think for yourself first before following other people. That's what Shepard teaches Edi in ME3. But aside from that are we seriously gonna act as if someone like Wrex haven't had their moments of sheer stupidity? 

Those people are her superiors though. Surely. Just SURLY they might know more about the situation than she does? (which they do). If she had voiced her concerns in "Commander *I'm* worried about X and Y" and not "Should you/we be letting aliens wander around the ship." I'd be more understanding. As it is she makes it sound like Anderson, Shep and Udina all lacked to think of that possibility.

Oh nothing wrong with thinking for yourself but shep can CHOOSE to teach EDI that. My renedouche told her to fall in damn line. Not to mention it's not about what you say but how you say it. Ashley says things in a clumsy often insulting manner.

But yeah everyone has their moments of sheer stupidity. "We fight or we die that's the plan!" I'm just pointing out that whole "they shouldn't be poking around." wasn't some shining example of foresight in Ashley's part.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 novembre 2013 - 03:36 .

[Star fury]

Barquiel wrote...

I didn't even buy From Ashes because I know I would dislike Javik. Wrex does not like Turians and Salarians. He obviously has no problem with Asari, Hanar, Elcor, etc. That is a personal grudge against those civilizations who wronged his people (in his opinion). While I don't always agree with Wrex (I think he forgets that the Krogan were
also responsible for their actions), I can understand why he feels the way he does.

Yes, the roots of Ashley's prejudices are also explained in the first game (familiy history, etc.). But come ME2 one of her few pieces of dialogue is "I'm no fan of aliens"(= all non-humans, not just Turians). It's not as if she hasn't had the opportunity to change her views in light of the non-human crew's efforts to defeat Saren.

Wrex still hates salarians and turians even in ME3, after working with Mordin and Garrus. But yeah, it's okay cause he's a fan favourite. But let's crucify Ashley cause she's "racist and bigot"!111

So, you apparently think it's understandable to hate one or two civilizations but it's bad not to trust all aliens? Okay.

Modifié par Star fury, 12 novembre 2013 - 03:54 .

[Star fury]

Ryzaki wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's like racism, but for those of a different species rather than race. Also, I have no quarrel with either one's religious beliefs provided they don't include the notion that they're the only true religion.

Feel free to provide me with quotes that Ash "imply that it's foolish to not follow some sort of religion" or her religious beliefs include the notion that they're the only true religion.

Damn, we don't even know what her religion is! Cristianity? Some sort of new religion?

"I mean hello? Have you looked out a window. How can you see that and not believe in something?"

Now if Shep was to say something of the effects of "LOL how can you look at the galaxy and believe this is some "grand plan" or was purposely created." Would that not be implying it's foolish to BE religious?

So?

[JasonShepard]

Ryzaki wrote...

Those people are her superiors though. Surely. Just SURLY they might know more about the situation than she does? (which they do). If she had voiced her concerns in "Commander *I'm* worried about X and Y" and not "Should you/we be letting aliens wander around the ship." I'd be more understanding. As it is she makes it sound like Anderson, Shep and Udina all lacked to think of that possibility. 

Just to jump in for a moment here, but her exact dialogue back in ME1 is "I'm concerned about the aliens. Vakarian and Wrex." It's here.

In any case, she raises the concern with Shepard and drops it once Shepard has listened and explained. She's also clearly hesitant in bringing it up. I really don't see a problem with Ashley's actions here.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 12 novembre 2013 - 03:49 .

[Mathias]

Ryzaki wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
Not sure about all that,  especially with Anderson, Udina, and Shepard thinking it's ok. Just because a few people think it's right doesn't really make it so. In this case they were but it's better to think for yourself first before following other people. That's what Shepard teaches Edi in ME3. But aside from that are we seriously gonna act as if someone like Wrex haven't had their moments of sheer stupidity? 

Those people are her superiors though. Surely. Just SURLY they might know more about the situation than she does? (which they do). If she had voiced her concerns in "Commander *I'm* worried about X and Y" and not "Should you/we be letting aliens wander around the ship." I'd be more understanding. As it is she makes it sound like Anderson, Shep and Udina all lacked to think of that possibility.

Oh nothing wrong with thinking for yourself but shep can CHOOSE to teach EDI that. My renedouche told her to fall in damn line. Not to mention it's not about what you say but how you say it. Ashley says things in a clumsy often insulting manner.

But yeah everyone has their moments of sheer stupidity. "We fight or we die that's the plan!" I'm just pointing out that whole "they shouldn't be poking around." wasn't some shining example of foresight in Ashley's part.

I don't think the way she worded it was bad at all, nor was it insulting. She's just looking out for the crew and the alliance. I doubt that she seriously thought someone was gonna sabotage and blow up the Normandy. If I were Shepard I would have concerns too. Overall i'd be fine with it, but I still wouldn't be completely 100% let you do whatever and go wherever you please on my ship while I constantly keep a blind eye.

[Star fury]

Ryzaki wrote...

Those people are her superiors though. Surely. Just SURLY they might know more about the situation than she does? (which they do). If she had voiced her concerns in "Commander *I'm* worried about X and Y" and not "Should you/we be letting aliens wander around the ship." I'd be more understanding. As it is she makes it sound like Anderson, Shep and Udina all lacked to think of that possibility.

You lost all credibilty when you mentioned Udina as the authority figure. That politician who almost doomed whole galaxy with the grounding of Normandy or who organised a coup that again almost gifted the galaxy to the Reapers.

Modifié par Star fury, 12 novembre 2013 - 03:56 .

[Barquiel]

Star fury wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I didn't even buy From Ashes because I know I would dislike Javik. Wrex does not like Turians and Salarians. He obviously has no problem with Asari, Hanar, Elcor, etc. That is a personal grudge against those civilizations who wronged his people (in his opinion). While I don't always agree with Wrex (I think he forgets that the Krogan were
also responsible for their actions), I can understand why he feels the way he does.

Yes, the roots of Ashley's prejudices are also explained in the first game (familiy history, etc.). But come ME2 one of her few pieces of dialogue is "I'm no fan of aliens"(= all non-humans, not just Turians). It's not as if she hasn't had the opportunity to change her views in light of the non-human crew's efforts to defeat Saren.

Wrex still hates salarians and turians even in ME3, after working with Mordin and Garrus. But yeah, it's okay cause he's a fan favourite.

No, it's not okay. But it's understandable (...and we don't want to compare the genophage to the first contact war), at least in my opinion.

[Ryzaki]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

I don't think the way she worded it was bad at all, nor was it insulting. She's just looking out for the crew and the alliance. I doubt that she seriously thought someone was gonna sabotage and blow up the Normandy. If I were Shepard I would have concerns too. Overall i'd be fine with it, but I still wouldn't be completely 100% let you do whatever and go wherever you please on my ship while I constantly keep a blind eye.

And I stand corrected by Jason was recalling the conversation wrong. Not insulting just nearsighted and very bias.

True my renedouche agreed with her (though he told her to mind her own business because he's a douche XD) my paragon wasn't concerned about it because compared to the loss of one stealth ship he had far bigger dangers on his mind so he was in firmly DGAF need to kill Saren mindset.

Star fury wrote...

So?

so it's insulting.

JasonShepard wrote...
Just to jump in for a moment here, but
her exact dialogue back in ME1 is "*I'm* concerned about the aliens.
Vakarian and Wrex." It's here.

In
any case, she raises the concern with Shepard and drops it once Shepard
has listened and explained. She's also clearly hesitant in bringing it
up. I really don't see a problem with Ashley's actions here.

Ah thanks. Guess I recalled that wrongly. Need to replay ME1.

Doesn't
stop the stupidity or bias (let's ignore Tali the only one who's people
ACTUALLY get a mini Normandy) but it makes it less obnoxious. And yeah that conversation "go it without them."  lol that'd went *real* well.

[Ryzaki]

Star fury wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Those people are her superiors though. Surely. Just SURLY they might know more about the situation than she does? (which they do). If she had voiced her concerns in "Commander *I'm* worried about X and Y" and not "Should you/we be letting aliens wander around the ship." I'd be more understanding. As it is she makes it sound like Anderson, Shep and Udina all lacked to think of that possibility.

You lost all credibilty when you mentioned Udina as the authority figure. That politician who almost doomed whole galaxy with the grounding of Normandy or who organised a coup that again almost gifted the galaxy to the Reapers.

LOL because that stops him from being a authority figure how exactly? Let's not mention at that point in time Udina hasn't done that.

Not to mention as for the coup bit was it EVER confirmed he *wasn't* indoctrinated?  As for dooming the galaxy with the grounding of the Normandy the council aggred with him on that. (Not saying it wasn't dumb as hell but he wasn't the only one holding the idiot ball in that scenario. Everyone save Anderson and Shep's crew was).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 novembre 2013 - 04:01 .

[JasonShepard]

@Ryzaki: Not a problem. On my end it was literally a case of opening the page up, seeing yours as the latest post, reading it and thinking "Wait, I thought that was exactly how she said it..."

Modifié par JasonShepard, 12 novembre 2013 - 04:01 .

[RatThing]

Barquiel wrote...

 Wrex does not like Turians and Salarians. He obviously has no problem with Asari, Hanar, Elcor, etc. That is a personal grudge against those civilizations who wronged his people (in his opinion). While I don't always agree with Wrex (I think he forgets that the Krogan were
also responsible for their actions), I can understand why he feels the way he does.

Wrex, if you have him with you for the the Rachni queen decision: "There are acid tanks rigged up on that thing. Set them off. Millions of my ancestors died to put these things down. Don't let them come back"

Wrex if you have Liara with you: "What's the matter? Are the Asari looking for a new species to cuddle up with?"

edit ( I know, a little blurry)

Modifié par RatThing, 12 novembre 2013 - 04:11 .

[Ryzaki]

JasonShepard wrote...

@Ryzaki: Not a problem. On my end it was literally a case of opening the page up, seeing yours as the latest post, reading it and thinking "Wait, I thought that was exactly how she said it..."

Yep. I was focused on the "should we be letting them..." bit (Since my reaction to that was "what is this we? I'll let you off on the Citadel anytime you'd like") but yeah thanks for the correction.

On the down side I'm reminded how much I facepalmed at the rest of that conversation.

[Star fury]

Ryzaki wrote...
so it's insulting.

No, it's not unless you're a militant atheist.

[Ryzaki]

Star fury wrote...
No, it's not unless you're a militant atheist.

So you don't consider the "Hello have you looked out a window? How can anyone look at this world and think it was intentional or any being made it?"  insulting to religious people? 

[Mathias]

All I know is my Shepard doesn't care what people's spiritual beliefs are.

[Xilizhra]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

All I know is my Shepard doesn't care what people's spiritual beliefs are.

Neither does mine. I don't hate Ashley for it or anything, I just brought it up as a reason.

[Ryzaki]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

All I know is my Shepard doesn't care what people's spiritual beliefs are.

Mine doesn't either which is why he brought up the charter comment. I just picture him giving Ashley the look when she does her hello comment before shaking his head and walking away.

[Star fury]

Ryzaki wrote...

So you don't consider the "Hello have you looked out a window? How can anyone look at this world and think it was intentional or any being made it?" insulting to religious people?

Nope, it's a harmless remark unless you're fanatically religious.