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[Ryzaki]

Star fury wrote...

Nope, it's a harmless remark unless you're fanatically religious.

*shrugs* To each their own.

[Obadiah]

Star fury wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

So you don't consider the "Hello have you looked out a window? How can anyone look at this world and think it was intentional or any being made it?" insulting to religious people?

Nope, it's a harmless remark unless you're fanatically religious.

As someone with fairly loose religious beliefs (practically none) who runs into this kind of remark all the time, I just look at it as people sharing.

Modifié par Obadiah, 12 novembre 2013 - 05:00 .

[Star fury]

Ryzaki wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Nope, it's a harmless remark unless you're fanatically religious.

*shrugs* To each their own.

I know it's shocking for you.

[Ryzaki]

Star fury wrote...
I know it's shocking for you.

That you have a different opinion nah. Not even shocking that'd you'd make that comment.

*flourishes* 

Still thank ra for choices. You can agree with Ashley and be her bestest friend and earn her hard won trust and I can shoot her in the stomach and call it a day.

And nothing of value was lost.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 novembre 2013 - 04:44 .

[Star fury]

Ryzaki wrote...

Star fury wrote...
I know it's shocking for you.

That you have a different opinion nah. Not even shocking that'd you'd make that comment.

*flourishes* 

Still thank ra for choices. You can agree with Ashley and be her bestest friend and earn her hard won trust and I can shoot her in the stomach and call it a day.

And nothing of value was lost.

I don't shoot my companions even if I don't quite like them. I'm not like you or so many bsn posters who hate and want to murder this or that party member/NPC. 

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

Star fury wrote...
No, it's not unless you're a militant atheist.

So you don't consider the "Hello have you looked out a window? How can anyone look at this world and think it was intentional or any being made it?"  insulting to religious people? 

Actually her phrase was "not believe in something"  She's not specifying that people need to believe in her God, or any deity in particular.  She's simply trying to articulate her belief that she sees something greater than herself in the universe.  And wonders that others don't perceive something similar.

This is actually the key to "paragoning" her later on.  Shepard can bring up that she believes in an all-powerful diety with a plan for the universe.  So aliens must be part of that plan.  This makes her re-evaluate her stance on them.

[Ryzaki]

Damn it I hate when I get lag and end up DPing.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 novembre 2013 - 05:12 .

[Ryzaki]

iakus wrote...
Actually her phrase was "not believe in something"  She's not specifying that people need to believe in her God, or any deity in particular.  She's simply trying to articulate her belief that she sees something greater than herself in the universe.  And wonders that others don't perceive something similar.

This is actually the key to "paragoning" her later on.  Shepard can bring up that she believes in an all-powerful diety with a plan for the universe.  So aliens must be part of that plan.  This makes her re-evaluate her stance on them.

It's all in the tone. "Just because I am in space (or something) I can't believe in a higher power Jeeze! Hello have you people looked out a window how can you look at this galaxy and not believe in something." I highly doubt she means something *other* than religious beliefs considering that's what the conversation was about.

Sweet but that really doesn't make the comment any less crude.

I mean I understand why people aren't bothered by it but people REALLY don't see why someone's a wee bit annoyed by someone saying that? Especially someone who flat out complains about people doing the opposite to her in the precedding sentence!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 novembre 2013 - 05:14 .

[Han Shot First]

Star fury wrote...

maaaad365 wrote...
She is too rough, reminds me of a drill seargeant , not a loving mother. In ME 1 and 2 she has her hair tied and she uses no make-up. I think that's what the developers meant for her character , to be nothing more than a perfect soldier (grunt) who believes strongly in the Alliance and never questions their policy.

Ashley is "a drill sergeant" or how they are called in the ME universe - the Gunnery Chief. She's not THAT rough like this drill instructor, but still.

The Gunnery Chief appears to be Mass Effect's equivalent of the Gunnery Sergeant rank, and while the character in that image was a Gunnery Sgt, that rank isn't exclusive to Drill Instructors. In combat units Gunnery Sergeants typically are the operations chief in a company and occasionally platoon sergeants. (the senior NCO in a platoon.)

Ashley most likely served in a similar role. She doesn't appear to have been an Drill Instructor at any point at least.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 12 novembre 2013 - 07:03 .

[Iakus]

Well, the hanar revere the protheans

The protheans themselves believed in an "evolutionary imperative"

The Heretic geth worshiped the Reapers.

The turians seem to have some sort of spirit worshipping thing going on

the quarians practice a form of ancestor worship (part of their hatred for the geth came from them destroying the servers where they stored the VI's of their dearly departed)

So there's lots of stuff out there fro people to revere:)

Not to mention the discovery of the prothean cache the relay network, and the civilizations out there apparantly caused a major religious crisis on Earth. Ash still openly practicing...whatever she practices...seems to be a bit of an oddity she's a little defensive about.

[Ryzaki]

iakus wrote...

Well, the hanar revere the protheans

The protheans themselves believed in an "evolutionary imperative"

The Heretic geth worshiped the Reapers.

The turians seem to have some sort of spirit worshipping thing going on

the quarians practice a form of ancestor worship (part of their hatred for the geth came from them destroying the servers where they stored the VI's of their dearly departed)

So there's lots of stuff out there fro people to revere:)

Not to mention the discovery of the prothean cache the relay network, and the civilizations out there apparantly caused a major religious crisis on Earth. Ash still openly practicing...whatever she practices...seems to be a bit of an oddity she's a little defensive about.

Still religious as for the Quarians do they believe in spirits or something? 

Which is fair enough my only point was the whole It's not something to be even the least bit offended at. If she can be offended by the reverse why is my Shep not able to be offended/annoyed (I was more annoyed than offended) at the "have to believe in something cause space." remark?

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

Still religious as for the Quarians do they believe in spirits or something? 

The quarians used to practice a form of ancestor worship. This involved taking a personality imprint from the individual and developing it into an interface similar to a VI. The quarians began experimenting with making these imprints more and more sophisticated, hopefully leading to the wisdom of their ancestors being preserved in an imprint that could be truly intelligent. However, the geth destroyed the quarians' ancestor databanks when they rebelled. Some quarians saw their subsequent exile as punishment for their hubris, but most accept that the geth rebellion was a mistake, not a punishment.
However, respect for their ancestors is still prevalent in quarian society. Admiral Shala'Raan vas Tonbay opens an Admiralty Board proceeding offering thanks to their ancestors, who saved them from the geth by founding the Migrant Fleet.


from http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Quarian

Which is fair enough my only point was the whole It's not something to be even the least bit offended at. If she can be offended by the reverse why is my Shep not able to be offended/annoyed (I was more annoyed than offended) at the "have to believe in something cause space." remark?

Likely a defense mechanism.  Seems like Ash has been ridiculed, mocked, or just considered wierd for her beliefs.  Combined with the whole Williams thing, she's gotten prickly about how people view her.  Sometimes you just gotta vent.

Modifié par iakus, 12 novembre 2013 - 05:33 .

[Ryzaki]

Ah.

Understandable. Not less annoying.

Gonna replay ME1 though but MY GOD why does it take so damn long to boot up.(and before anyone even asks I'm not using texmod).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 novembre 2013 - 05:45 .

[FlyingSquirrel]

As far as the racism aspect goes, I get that the dog analogy is not meant to compare non-humans to dogs, but even without that, she does sound kind of prejudiced or at least inconsiderate about non-humans in several other places:

• She explicitly says "I'm no fan of aliens" or something like that in ME2.
• One of the possible dialogue sequences in ME1 about the rachni queen has her pronouncing the word "alien" in a somewhat harsh tone of voice and Shepard saying something like, "'Their kind'? That's a rather telling statement, chief."
• She says something about having trouble distinguishing aliens from animals, IIRC, on the Citadel in ME1.
• "Look at that giant bug-thing. What's it doing?" At the very least, she should realize that this could make her sound like an idiot. And if she really has no idea what a keeper is, then for all she knows, it could be a regular sapient species that would overhear her and not appreciate being called a "giant bug-thing.

[KaiserShep]

Honestly I would've probably said something similar about the keeper if I came across one. That and giving it a very wide berth, in case it spits acid or lays eggs or something.

[Sir DeLoria]

I don't get it, why do people hate Ash or any other religious character based on their beliefs? I'm an agnostic, but I don't care what religion my friends follow. There's nothing wrong with religion, if it's the Christian Ash, the Prothean-worshipping Hanar or the Quarians with their ancestral demi-religion(seems to me more like a tradition than a religion). The only exception is if religion breeds hatred or ignorance.

[KaiserShep]

I'm an atheist and I had no issues with her beliefs. It's not as if they're browbeat into the player. Now, if Ashley went all Westboro Baptist and started spouting off nonsense like God hates Xenos, then it would be a different story.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 12 novembre 2013 - 06:47 .

[Sir DeLoria]

KaiserShep wrote...

I'm an atheist and I had no issues with her beliefs. It's not as if they're browbeat into the player. Now, if Ashley went all Westboro Baptist and started spouting off nonsense like God hates Xenos, then it would be a different story.

Exactly.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I don't get it either. Unfortunately Shepard is given the choice of openly accepting and saying "I believe too" or coming off like an ass.

One thing consistent through Mass Effect is the inconsistent writing.

[KaiserShep]

I thought the neutral position was OK. I only go for that one, unless I use an alternate who shares her beliefs.

[maaaad365]

Han Shot First wrote...

Star fury wrote...

maaaad365 wrote...
She is too rough, reminds me of a drill seargeant , not a loving mother. In ME 1 and 2 she has her hair tied and she uses no make-up. I think that's what the developers meant for her character , to be nothing more than a perfect soldier (grunt) who believes strongly in the Alliance and never questions their policy.

Ashley is "a drill sergeant" or how they are called in the ME universe - the Gunnery Chief. She's not THAT rough like this drill instructor, but still.

The Gunnery Chief appears to be Mass Effect's equivalent of the Gunnery Sergeant rank, and while the character in that imagine was a Gunnery Sgt, that rank isn't exclusive to Drill Instructors. In combat units Gunnery Sergeants typically are the operations chief in a company and occasionally platoon sergeants. (the senior NCO in a platoon.)

Ashley most likely served in a similar role. She doesn't appear to have been an Drill Instructor at any point at least.

This is how I see her talking :

[Ryzaki]

Yeah the alliance charter remark is fine. Though my renedouche always picks the snarky zombie options. LOL

[silverexile17s]

Star fury wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

"Hello? How can you look out there and not believe in something?"
".....because I believe not to believe in any deities?" 

It was totally innocent. Ash wasn't preaching, she wasn't telling anybody that they would burn in hell, if they didn't believe.

silverexile17s wrote...

How so? She's still stubborn

Not a problem.

silverexile17s wrote...

she's still devotely religious

Not a problem. Since then having religious beliefs is a flaw?

silverexile17s wrote...

she's still hard-lined "the world is black and white" opinionated. 

It's only your opinion & it's not a problem.

silverexile17s wrote...

The only thing different is her casual dress and her hairstyle - and she still tends to wear armor on missions.

Which is a bad thing?

1) You don't call "Hello, how can you look at all this and not believe in something?" not preaching? I think you need to review what "preaching" means. Also, IDK if you remember, but in ME3 in one of the scenes that takes place if you shoot her, she says "I hope the Reapers send you to hell." Kaidan isn't as vindictive as that, even if you don't ever visit him in the hospital.

2) Yes it IS a problem. Having baggage like that in the war for life as we know it doesn't fly -- you have issues, you air them out. You don't stuff them away because you're too stubborn and prideful to say "I messed up."

3) When it gives you an inflexible "black and white" self-rightious complex, perhaps?

4) Wrong. It's her personality, and it's not what you need to deal with when the Reapers are mowing down systems at a time.

5) What the Hell are you talking about  that last one wasn;t even a complaint!! Jeez, you're just looking for a reason, aren't you?

[silverexile17s]

Star fury wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

klarabella wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Kaidan was able to admit that he should have realized that Shepard wouldn't do this without good reasons. Garrus joined Shepard without knowing. So did Tali. Wrex greated Shepard without debate. And Liara was the one that gave Shepard to Cerberus in the first place. Everyone in the old squad took that risk, because even though they didn't know the reasons, they knew Shepard, and knew that Shepard would only do this for good reasons. And upon reflection, Kaidan was able to admit and accept this too. The only one that doesn't is Ashley. That doesn't tell you something?

It tells me that these are characters in a shallow story who act nothing like real people would.

Shepard actually did all this without good reasons. It's why I find ME2 so painful to play through.
And the handwave "I knew you for a few weeks 2 years ago and just know you are infallible and awesome" doesn't fly with me.

Wrong. This is a war where, again, all life as we know it is at risk. There isn't time for this bull -- you either trust your friends and comrads, or you don't. You either admit your mistakes and resolve them now, or forever hold your peace, since you probably won't get any second chances here.

The Collectors took four colonies by the time Shepard went to Freedom's Progress. Then there were three more taken -- Ferris Fields, New Canton, and Horizon. Alltogether, at least seven colonies - a millon humans in total - were taken by the Collectors. You can look at that number and say "nope, you didn't have a good reason"?! Wow doesn't even cover that.

Oh, it was enough to warrent stealing the Normandy from the Citadel and infiltrating the Terminus Systems to follow Saren and Sovergien, but not enough to warrent follwoing Shepard against giant bugs that she saw herself, and was nearly killed by? How the hell does that make any sense what-so-ever? Even Kaidan, when looking back on it, realizes that he Should have trusted that Shepard must have had good reasons and that he should have trusted his/her judgement.

My eyes are bleeding! 

Make a constructive quote for once.

[silverexile17s]

Necanor wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Intelectual capacity is LIFE. The only requirement living beings need is the abilaty to think. To make their own concious choices. Killing them is the same as killing a living being. Sure, lots of people don't know this -- hell, the quarians attacked Rannoch because they didn't know the geth weren't remote-controled Reaper-drones.
But playing from Shepard's POV, you do know, via Legion, that the geth are living beings.

And if all you're going to do is talk about the geth, go to a fourm where they're talking about the geth. Don't clutter a completely unrelated topic with this.

What? No, by a biological definition of life, Geth and all other robots, no matter how well programmed, aren't alive. Intelectual capacity isn't the only requirement to be considered alive. Ironically, it turns out that the Geth made themselves remote controlled Reaper drones when they're rightful masters showed up.

I'm clutteirng the topic? Well now, that's ironic.

Right there -- you said biological definition, as if you think all life follows our definitoions. Since when was biological definition the only definition in an infinate galaxy? Intelligence and sentiance are the only things required of life. Ideals like what you're saying? They border on racisim -- life doesn't have hardline definitions. It can take whatever shape or form it can, be it organic or synthetic.

Aren't you though? This topic is about Ashley Williams' character, and you're making a geth debate.