1121 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

silverexile17s wrote...
...
- 2)I believe the guards in the CIC completely and utterly counter that assumption -- "Come on, if Thessia was under attack and Earth wasn't, you can damn well bet we'd be guarding our borders." Somehow, people like you seem to forget that the rest of the galaxy interperts themselves as the "dog" and each-other as the one that will sick them on the "bear." And in ME1, ironicly, they become justified in doing so if you left the Council to die in ME1, because they can claim you stuck it to them first - that you sicked them on the dog first.
...

Yeah, people like you think that people like me think a lot of things which we don't.

[Darks1d3]

I'm surprised you all are still arguing with him. He clearly thinks he is right and everyone else wrong. "Never argue with someone who knows they're right".

For me, I liked both Ashley and Kaidon. I've saved/sacrficed both of them on a few playthroughs. Ashley never struck me as a b****(at least, not in a negative way), she is just headstrong and stubborn. Reminds me a lot of my Irish in-laws. Kaidon kind of reminds me of myself in some ways. They're both interesting in their own right.

[Obadiah]

@Darks1d3
I like Kaiden and Ashley both as well. They each have positive qualities, and I like that they both aren't looking to be saved. Does Shep's influence from ME1 translate at all to their personalites in ME3? I've only ever influenced either with the Paragon option.

Modifié par Obadiah, 13 novembre 2013 - 03:50 .

[silverexile17s]

Hazegurl wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
 Realistic? Um..... no.[/u][/i] The idea of an anti-alien character is just as cliched as the opposite. There's no "better" personality here, let's be clear about that.

 
In a game where the PC is practically praised for just breathing it could be interesting to have a character that holds to their opinion no matter what the PC thinks.

I wish the Normandy had extra rooms, that's where the crew should be, not in our engine room or armory.  Not until some sort of friendship is established at least. Heck not even a character like Jack should be allowed onboard, not after she threatens to blow a hole in your ship. Trust is earned and if Shepard has to work for their trust, they should work for his.

- 2)I believe the guards in the CIC completely and utterly counter that assumption -- "Come on, if Thessis was under attack and Earth wasn't, you can damn well bet we'd be guarding our borders." Somehow, people like you seem to forget that the rest of the galaxy interperts themselves as the "dog" and each-other as the one that will sick them on the "bear." [/u][/i]And in ME1, ironicly, they become justified [/u][/i]in doing so if you left the Council to die in ME1, because they can claim you stuck it to them first [/u][/i]- that you sicked them on the dog first[/u][/i].

I agree but if the Alliance saves the council's butt at the cost of their own soldier's lives then that should have been enough to squash those beliefs. But whatever, gameplay/story reasons. 
 

What you repeatedly fail to comprehend is that everyone saw the Alliance as the ones that would leave everyone to fend off the bear. [/i][/u]That was the entire reason humans were frowned upon in ME1.

I disagree, what we are told in ME1 is that humans are developing too fast. They were new on the scene and already surpassing other species in strength and notoriety.  Humans weren't willing to sit around and accept scraps given to them by the Council like all the other unrepresented races. Many aliens believed humans to be reckless because of this.  

As for point #3: The VS had their own missions to do, None of the squad mates you mentioned were Alliance soldiers, it's silly to think that you're not joining a terrorist organization because your friend is a part of it, and Admiral Hackett is shady anyway.

Who would dare trust that Alliance "liaison"? You're on a bugged ship and you report directly to the leader of the terrorist organization. Yeah, real smart.

With all due respect, I think you've completely misinterperted it -- Ash isn't any more interesting then any other character I've seen. In fact, she and Kaidan tend to rank in the bottom compared to others like Garrus, Wrex, Tali and Liara.

"Why is it when someone says 'with all due respect' they really mean 'kiss my ass'?-Gunnery Chief Ashley Williams.

1) No,  the main character is praised for being a war hero due to either conquering Torfan, defending Elisyum, or surviving Akuze. And with how the Council treated Shepard in ME1 and ME2, you'd never think Shepard was "praised for breathing" when nearly everything he/she did was critizisied.

And yet, this somehow doesn't need to apply to Ashley? Kaidan talks it out and clears the air in the hospital and works to re-earn your trust. Ashley by contrast acts like she's entitled, as if Horzion didn't happen.

2) It still ignores the simple baseline fact that very few people seem to realize that "the bear and the dog" applies to everyone in the galaxy and how they view the Alliance. Ashley never seems to realize that the entire reason the Council treats us like that, is because they're afraid of being the ones left to fend off the bear by the Alliance. It's a situation that will never change unless someone takes the plunge and says "sooner or later, you're going to have to trust something I say on faith."

3) And that's why the Council fears that humans will make them fight the bear. Because humans are developing so fast, they believe humans would take any oppertunity to get ahead -- what they fear happening is an outcome like the "Renagade" ending of ME1 where the Council dies. Sicking them on the bear while you get off scott free -- they believe that's what humans would do if they got the chance, so of course they return the feeling and the suspicion.To be honest, it's how every race views each-other. How the turians view the krogan and vice-versa. How the quarians view the geth and vice-versa. Mentality like this is why no one actually works together, even when there's a bigger threat like the Reapers out there.

As for the squad-mates, that's not true -- look at Samara. Her affiliation with Shepard doesn't mean she has to quit being a Justicar. And Tali joining Shepard didn't get her kicked out of the Migrant Fleet. Jack worked with Shepard dispite Cerberus ties because working with Shepard wasn't the same as working for Cerberus. That's why Garrus joined. And Dr. Chakwas in ME3 reveals that she was able to work on the SR-2 without actually leaving the Alliance due to her role as medical staff.

Admiral Hackett can board a Cerberus-controled  Normandy pre-suicide mission and serve as a leasion between Shepard and the Admiralty Board for what happend with Arrival. Without leaving the Alliance or getting demoted, or losing any influence with the Alliance Leadership.
So..... I don't see why  Ashley couldn't when an Alliance Admiral could.

4) Easy to say when she somehow gets a pass on having to re-earn Shepard's trust. Hell, at least Kaidan accepted that he needed to clear the air if he was going to ever work with Shepard again.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 novembre 2013 - 04:10 .

[Xilizhra]

Kudos to Silverexile for joining our side of the geth debate, by the way.

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
...
- 2)I believe the guards in the CIC completely and utterly counter that assumption -- "Come on, if Thessia was under attack and Earth wasn't, you can damn well bet we'd be guarding our borders." Somehow, people like you seem to forget that the rest of the galaxy interperts themselves as the "dog" and each-other as the one that will sick them on the "bear." And in ME1, ironicly, they become justified in doing so if you left the Council to die in ME1, because they can claim you stuck it to them first - that you sicked them on the dog first.
...

Yeah, people like you think that people like me think a lot of things which we don't.

You mean like thinking that the geth were monsters, yet were actually a mostly passive race? I'm pretty sure pre-judgemental views like what Ash endorses won't get you far in terms of making friends.

And I'm pretty sure that if Thessia had been under attack, humans wouldn't have been rushing to save it. Hell, the asari and salarians don't even rush to save Palaven. It would have been the same no matter which race was attacked first. All the other races would have scapegoated that poor race to have time to build themselves up. Fate just happend to pick us as the poor bastards to get it first.

[wolfhowwl]

Hackett is one of the highest ranking officers in the military. Maybe there is a difference between what he knows about Cerberus and can get away with versus Ashley, who is what, a Lieutenant?

[silverexile17s]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kudos to Silverexile for joining our side of the geth debate, by the way.

Well, I see the differences in Kaidan and Ashley, and while neither are my favorate characters, I see that Kaidan at least clears the air and accepts that he can't just pretend like Horizon didn't happen. Ashley would rather ignore it completely.
One accepts that he made a mistake, while the other ignores the fact that she ever called you a traitor to your face.

As for the geth debate, I understand why the quarians went to war -- they thought they had no choice and that they were going to die. But it's the same for the geth, and I can't fault them for it either -- the second quarian/geth war was just a clusterfu*k all around. But in all of that, I never once doubted that the geth were living beings -- they're equal to the quarians in that regard. Which is the reason why I couldn't fault any one side.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 novembre 2013 - 04:20 .

[silverexile17s]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hackett is one of the highest ranking officers in the military. Maybe there is a difference between what he knows about Cerberus and can get away with versus Ashley, who is what, a Lieutenant?

Vs the entirety of the Alliance High Command?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe it's equivilant that Hackett standing before the entire Alliance Leadership would even out compared to Ashley standing before an Admiral?

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 novembre 2013 - 04:15 .

[Star fury]

conjmk wrote...

I wouldn't say shes a b*&#h but she doesn't exactly come off as loving or understanding to me.

Too bad you overlooked both ME1 and 3. Ashley cares about her family, especially her sister. She also comforts Samesh Bhatia.

[silverexile17s]

Star fury wrote...

conjmk wrote...

I wouldn't say shes a b*&#h but she doesn't exactly come off as loving or understanding to me.

Too bad you overlooked both ME1 and 3. Ashley cares about her family, especially her sister. She also comforts Samesh Bhatia.

Too bad it seems you are also guilty of that - Kaidan does the same when thinking about his mother, and in ME3, he does the same about his father being MIA. Honestly, they aren't any different in that regard -- they both have family they love. Kaidan also has sympathy for fellow kindred souls, like with the biotics that were oppressed for being referred to as "freaks," and helps talk down the L2 Biotic terrorists in ME1 to save Chairman Burns.

They're pretty much the same -- except one works to earn your trust back by clearing the air, while the other ignores having called you a traitor to your face.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 novembre 2013 - 04:17 .

[AresKeith]

silverexile17s wrote...

Star fury wrote...

conjmk wrote...

I wouldn't say shes a b*&#h but she doesn't exactly come off as loving or understanding to me.

Too bad you overlooked both ME1 and 3. Ashley cares about her family, especially her sister. She also comforts Samesh Bhatia.

Too bad it seems you are also guilty of that - Kaidan does the same when thinking about his mother, and in ME3, he does the same about his father being MIA. Honestly, they aren't any different in that regard -- they both have family they love. Kaidan also has sympathy for fellow kindred souls, like with the biotics that were oppressed for being referred to as "freaks," and helps talk down the L2 Biotic terrorists in ME1 to save Chairman Burns.

They're pretty much the same -- except one works to earn your trust back by clearing the air, while the other ignores having called you a traitor to your face.

I take it you don't like Ashley because she didn't trust you when you worked with Cerberus 

[Star fury]

silverexile17s wrote...

Make a constructive quote for once.

At least I can make quotes without making quote pyramids and EMPHASIZING like you.

[Dextro Milk]

Ashley isn't a b****.

The Geth suck.

This thread is boring.

[wolfhowwl]

silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hackett is one of the highest ranking officers in the military. Maybe there is a difference between what he knows about Cerberus and can get away with versus Ashley, who is what, a Lieutenant?

Vs the entirety of the Alliance High Command?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe it's equivilant that Hackett standing before the entire Alliance Leadership would even out compared to Ashley standing before an Admiral?

Hackett is, per the codex, head of the Alliance military.

It is not equivalent.

[silverexile17s]

AresKeith wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Star fury wrote...

conjmk wrote...

I wouldn't say shes a b*&#h but she doesn't exactly come off as loving or understanding to me.

Too bad you overlooked both ME1 and 3. Ashley cares about her family, especially her sister. She also comforts Samesh Bhatia.

Too bad it seems you are also guilty of that - Kaidan does the same when thinking about his mother, and in ME3, he does the same about his father being MIA. Honestly, they aren't any different in that regard -- they both have family they love. Kaidan also has sympathy for fellow kindred souls, like with the biotics that were oppressed for being referred to as "freaks," and helps talk down the L2 Biotic terrorists in ME1 to save Chairman Burns.

They're pretty much the same -- except one works to earn your trust back by clearing the air, while the other ignores having called you a traitor to your face.

I take it you don't like Ashley because she didn't trust you when you worked with Cerberus 

No, it's because unlike Kaidan, who admits having been wrong and needing to clear the air, Ashley will completely ignore how she called you a Traitor that "turned your back on everything you stood for." Kaidan will admit he was wrong about Shepard and doesn't blame you if you're pissed off about Horizon, wheras Ashley seems to think she's entitled to be trusted, even after Horizon.
That's the simple truth -- Kaidan is more willing to try and work through the issues, wheras Ashley will not even acknowledge having been wrong about you.

[silverexile17s]

Star fury wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Make a constructive quote for once.

At least I can make quotes without making quote pyramids and EMPHASIZING like you.

And that's better.....how?

[Star fury]

silverexile17s wrote...

Star fury wrote...

conjmk wrote...

I wouldn't say shes a b*&#h but she doesn't exactly come off as loving or understanding to me.

Too bad you overlooked both ME1 and 3. Ashley cares about her family, especially her sister. She also comforts Samesh Bhatia.

Too bad it seems you are also guilty of that - Kaidan does the same when thinking about his mother, and in ME3, he does the same about his father being MIA. Honestly, they aren't any different in that regard -- they both have family they love. Kaidan also has sympathy for fellow kindred souls, like with the biotics that were oppressed for being referred to as "freaks," and helps talk down the L2 Biotic terrorists in ME1 to save Chairman Burns.

They're pretty much the same -- except one works to earn your trust back by clearing the air, while the other ignores having called you a traitor to your face.

Hello, are you alright? Where I even mentioned Kaidan?! This is Ashley thread and we're discussing her not Kaidan, in case you didn't notice.

[Obadiah]

Star fury wrote...

conjmk wrote...

I wouldn't say shes a b*&#h but she doesn't exactly come off as loving or understanding to me.

Too bad you overlooked both ME1 and 3. Ashley cares about her family, especially her sister. She also comforts Samesh Bhatia.

Very true... there is also that optional support encounter with Shep at the locker when the Normandy is in lockdown.

[silverexile17s]

wolfhowwl wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hackett is one of the highest ranking officers in the military. Maybe there is a difference between what he knows about Cerberus and can get away with versus Ashley, who is what, a Lieutenant?

Vs the entirety of the Alliance High Command?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe it's equivilant that Hackett standing before the entire Alliance Leadership would even out compared to Ashley standing before an Admiral?

Hackett is, per the codex, head of the Alliance military.

It is not equivalent.

Wrong. He is the head of one single fleet out of EIGHT. He becomes head of the Alliance military only after the Reapers kill everyone else in the attack on Earth and Arcturus Station. Prior to ME3, he is one fleet commander out of eight that reports to the Alliance Admiralty Board (the three Admirals that get wasted in the Earth prolouge when the Reapers land). So, yes, it is equivilant.
Honestly, dude, check your timestamps - this is pre-ME3.

[Star fury]

Obadiah wrote...

Very true... there is also that optional support encounter with Shep at the locker when the Normandy is in lockdown.

That scene is touching too.

[silverexile17s]

Star fury wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Star fury wrote...

conjmk wrote...

I wouldn't say shes a b*&#h but she doesn't exactly come off as loving or understanding to me.

Too bad you overlooked both ME1 and 3. Ashley cares about her family, especially her sister. She also comforts Samesh Bhatia.

Too bad it seems you are also guilty of that - Kaidan does the same when thinking about his mother, and in ME3, he does the same about his father being MIA. Honestly, they aren't any different in that regard -- they both have family they love. Kaidan also has sympathy for fellow kindred souls, like with the biotics that were oppressed for being referred to as "freaks," and helps talk down the L2 Biotic terrorists in ME1 to save Chairman Burns.

They're pretty much the same -- except one works to earn your trust back by clearing the air, while the other ignores having called you a traitor to your face.

Hello, are you alright? Where I even mentioned Kaidan?! This is Ashley thread and we're discussing her not Kaidan, in case you didn't notice.

Hello, I'm showing that he has the same connections, making Ashley's nothing to brag about?! Not that hard to see, you know? I'm showing that she's not quite as special as you headcannon her to be, "in case you didn't notice."

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

Star fury wrote...

conjmk wrote...

I wouldn't say shes a b*&#h but she doesn't exactly come off as loving or understanding to me.

Too bad you overlooked both ME1 and 3. Ashley cares about her family, especially her sister. She also comforts Samesh Bhatia.

Very true... there is also that optional support encounter with Shep at the locker when the Normandy is in lockdown.

- Kaidan does the same when thinking about his mother, and in ME3, he does the same about his father being MIA. Honestly, they aren't any different in that regard -- they both have family they love. Kaidan also has sympathy for fellow kindred souls, like with the biotics that were oppressed for being referred to as "freaks," and helps talk down the L2 Biotic terrorists in ME1 to save Chairman Burns. Hell, even the locker scene is matched by Kaidan. What Ashley does is matched by what Kaidan does step-for-step, and thus, her actions aren't anything to brag about. It only differs in ME3, where one is able to look back and admit that they should have trusted you.

They're pretty much the same -- except one works to earn your trust back by clearing the air, while the other ignores having called you a traitor to your face.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 novembre 2013 - 04:30 .

[Iakus]

Darks1d3 wrote...

I'm surprised you all are still arguing with him. He clearly thinks he is right and everyone else wrong. "Never argue with someone who knows they're right".

Wrong!

[silverexile17s]

Star fury wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

Very true... there is also that optional support encounter with Shep at the locker when the Normandy is in lockdown.

That scene is touching too.

So is Kaidan and Liara's scenes, you know. Especally Liara.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 novembre 2013 - 04:32 .