1121 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtySHISN0]

I don't like her. We as players know she is wrong. That's it.

[AlexMBrennan]

In ME1 Ash got some bad lines due to bugs ("I can't tell the aliens from the animals" whilst talking to an ambassador) and kept constantly insulting her superior officer ( "I sure hope you know what you are doing") any time she was in the squad which probably didn't help her case.

In ME2 and ME3, Shepard's defence on Horizon should have carried more weight ("why didn't you call" - "I was dead or in a coma for the last two years" - "but why didn't you call?") but apart from that her reaction is justified; any player who is upset by that is merely rationalising why Shepard working with Cerberus is OK: The player known that Shepard working with terrorists is bad so they invent some reason why Shepard working with these terrorists isn't bad so that they won't feel bad.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 09 novembre 2013 - 01:43 .

[Massa FX]

Both VS's are painful to talk to at times.

I never save Ash, but from all the whining about her, I'd say she's slightly more annoying than Kaidan.

[RZIBARA]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

I don't like her. We as players know she is wrong. That's it.

yeah, the only one wrong is you lol

[DirtySHISN0]

RZIBARA wrote...
yeah, the only one wrong is you lol

Elaborate

[silverexile17s]

Omega Torsk wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Omega Torsk wrote...

No, she really isn't. She's a headstrong woman with opinions and is one of the more realistic characters in the game.

People just hate cause haters be hatin'.

No, that really isn't true. They hate her because she's generally stubborn and inflexible. She distrusts people and has a rather "black and white" view of life.

Perhaps try to look at it from the other person's view -- something Ashley didn't usually try. I won't hide the fact that I wasn't found of her, but I believe there are validifiable reasons for it.

Round and round we go. Ash changes (she can even change her views as early as the middle of ME1!). I'm sorry, but the constant "because she's a racist, holier-than-thou xenophobe" comments tend to wear on my ability to see things from a different point of view.

No, she doesn't -- quite the opposite in my opinion. In ME3, she refused to budge from her belief that working with Cerberus was wrong, whereas Kaiden will at least admit that he overreacted. Ash refuses to condone the act, whereas Kaiden will eventually accept that Shepard did what he/she had to do. Kaiden was generally more accepting then Ash was. Kaiden even went as far as to say "I just want you to know I'll never doubt you again." Ash barely even touches on it, opting to just drop the matter entirely with a "good to be back." It has nothning to do with her views on racisim -- it typically has to do with her stubborn pride being off-putting to people.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 09 novembre 2013 - 08:44 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It has to do with Ashley being badly written.

[Iakus]

silverexile17s wrote...
No, she doesn't -- quite the opposite in my opinion. In ME3, she refused to budge from her belief that working with Cerberus was wrong, whereas Kaiden will at least admit that he overreacted. Ash refuses to condone the act, whereas Kaiden will eventually accept that Shepard did what he/she had to do. Kaiden was generally more accepting then Ash was. Kaiden even went as far as to say "I just want you to know I'll never doubt you again." Ash barely even touches on it, opting to just drop the matter entirely with a "good to be back." It has nothning to do with her views on racisim -- it typically has to do with her stubborn pride being off-putting to people.

"I doubted you once, Shepard, and I lost you.  That's not happening again"

[AlexMBrennan]

No, she doesn't -- quite the opposite in my opinion. In ME3, she refused to budge from her belief that working with Cerberus was wrong, whereas Kaiden will at least admit that he overreacted

You are absolutely right, of course - the game is certainly worse for lacking an option to send Kaidan to space!Gitmo for being a terrorist sympathiser.

Ash refuses to condone the act, whereas Kaiden will eventually accept that Shepard did what he/she had to do.

OK, I'd really like to hear how this supports your argument - at best, the Reaper invasion fleet was six months out and Shepard managed to take out one Cruiser that neither threatened the Alliance military nor could have finished its mission because all this shows is that Kaidan is an idiot (for, apparently, thinking that Shepard working with Cerberus was necessary when it evidently wasn't) as well as a terrorist sympathiser.

Shepard voluntarily chose to work with terrorists without bothering to check if they are even telling the truth. Shepard is the bad guy here and you have to invent an excuse because you didn't have a choice in the matter.
However, that doesn't change that Ash's position is essentially correct whilst Kaidan becomes a Yes-Man ("I just want you to know I'll never doubt you again.")

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 09 novembre 2013 - 09:19 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I love how Alex believes that everyone who actually likes Cerberus secretly hates themselves and are disgusted by them and in denial. Or that his morals and definition of the word "terrorist" is absolute and objective.

Can you tell me how they are absolutely evil? Or why I should follow the Council or the alliance? Because you say so? Because they're 'good'?

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 09 novembre 2013 - 09:36 .

[jtav]

It's Cerberus' methods I quibble with, not their ideology. I'd gladly see the Council system thrown down and replaced by a human empire (I'd also like to see the aliens utterly wiped out and replaced by something remotely interesting, but this is a metafictional complaint)

[silverexile17s]

iakus wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
No, she doesn't -- quite the opposite in my opinion. In ME3, she refused to budge from her belief that working with Cerberus was wrong, whereas Kaiden will at least admit that he overreacted. Ash refuses to condone the act, whereas Kaiden will eventually accept that Shepard did what he/she had to do. Kaiden was generally more accepting then Ash was. Kaiden even went as far as to say "I just want you to know I'll never doubt you again." Ash barely even touches on it, opting to just drop the matter entirely with a "good to be back." It has nothning to do with her views on racisim -- it typically has to do with her stubborn pride being off-putting to people.

"I doubted you once, Shepard, and I lost you.  That's not happening again"

That line's only if you romanced her -- you know, that passionate emotion that eventually forgives most, if not any fault. Sorry, but some people were a little put off by the the fact that unless she's your LI, she never apologized for not trusting you.
And even then, that statement's not an apology like what Kaiden gives.

[2Pac]

Ashley is terrible honestly her character was just awful Everything about ashley is wrong.

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It has to do with Ashley being badly written.

Maybe -- or maybe they inteltanny wanted her to be a hard-ass person to get along with. You know, that "metagaming" factor where for every flexible and accepting person (Kaiden), there just has to be an inflexible and judgemental person (Ashley) just to balance it out.
IDK if BioWare ever purged "Star Wars" from their mindsets, because half the time, you're left feeling like it's a "Light Side/Dark Side" with your companions being one side over the other, and even accumliating Good Guy/Bad Guy points (which then changed to corrupt your apperance in later games like it was the Dark Side of the Force you were dealing with).
Honestly, the color-coded voice options and the "lightside/darkside" morality choices -- I don't think Ashley was the only aspect of character development that wasn't done right.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 09 novembre 2013 - 10:04 .

[Br3admax]

Is there a single human character who isn't?

[This is the End My Friend]

Br3ad wrote...

Is there a single human character who isn't?

Kaidan. Jacob I guess. 

[Killdren88]

She has a lot of potential as a character. She wasn't perfect but I liked her. In the first game in my mind she Represented a realistic side of learning how to trust aliens. Plus she knows what she likes and doesn't take BS. I like her for that.

[Iakus]

silverexile17s wrote...
That line's only if you romanced her -- you know, that passionate emotion that eventually forgives most, if not any fault. Sorry, but some people were a little put off by the the fact that unless she's your LI, she never apologized for not trusting you.
And even then, that statement's not an apology like what Kaiden gives.

Eh, I guess some people just have to have their egos stroked.

Me, I took her shooting Udina as her apology.
Apology accepted, Ash

[Killdren88]

iakus wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
That line's only if you romanced her -- you know, that passionate emotion that eventually forgives most, if not any fault. Sorry, but some people were a little put off by the the fact that unless she's your LI, she never apologized for not trusting you.
And even then, that statement's not an apology like what Kaiden gives.

Eh, I guess some people just have to have their egos stroked.

Me, I took her shooting Udina as her apology.
Apology accepted, Ash

^^^^^^^

[silverexile17s]

iakus wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
That line's only if you romanced her -- you know, that passionate emotion that eventually forgives most, if not any fault. Sorry, but some people were a little put off by the the fact that unless she's your LI, she never apologized for not trusting you.
And even then, that statement's not an apology like what Kaiden gives.

Eh, I guess some people just have to have their egos stroked.

Me, I took her shooting Udina as her apology.
Apology accepted, Ash

You mean the person that she trusted over you if you romanced another person - in which you need to visit her and buy her stuff to get back on her good side.  I mean, "egos stroked"? That's both a gross oversimplification, and a gross misinterpertation.
Sorry, but that's not an apology -- Kaiden does the same thing and still goes out of his way to make it clear that "ill never doubt you again." You don't get that comittment from Ashley unless you're in a relationship with her and even then, it's never really spoken. Kaiden leaves zero doubt that he knows he made a mistake not trusting you and is truly sorry for it, and does so regardless of weather or not you and he got together. I'd personally rather not have my trust in a character be solely dependant on weather or not I'm sharing a bunk with them.
It's not "egos stroked," it's wanting some damn reasurance that she's someone you can count on with your life -- and Kaiden just gives you that more then Ashely ever did. She's too prideful to accept that it was a mistake - she says that she won't doubt you again (if you're in a relationship with her), but never once says the act of doubting you was a mistake. It's things like that, plus her generally uncomprimising and inflexible "black and white" stance to life that makes her less appealing of a character compared to Kaiden, who is more apt to compromise and is more leanient then she is.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 09 novembre 2013 - 11:00 .

[Omega Torsk]

Circular arguments! An effective use of time, indeed.

Modifié par Omega Torsk, 10 novembre 2013 - 01:30 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The thing with Ashley is in ME3, if you renegade the hell out of her on Mars, then give her Tennyson in the hospital, and paragon her from then out to the confrontation, you never have a problem with her. Ever. Even in the confrontation with Udina with my renegade Shep, she stands down. No, she doesn't stroke your ego. I play femShep. It's that her dialogue on the Normandy is ... just ... so ... bad. The character was horribly written in ME3. The reason she's alive is that she's better written than Kaidan in ME1 and I found my Shep bonded more with her. My Shep wasn't interested in learning about "Brain Camp". Why? She was a biotic.

[Vicious]

While I found him annoying in ME1, Carth Onasi in ME3 is a total bro and much more useful.

Modifié par Vicious, 09 novembre 2013 - 11:13 .