1121 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

AresKeith wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Given my experiences with all kinds of Mass Effect fans these past 5 years, I feel confident and sure enough to say that roughly around 90% of the people who hate Ashley, usually don't truly understand her character.

Pretty much

*looks back at them calling her a racist*

Lol, why is it that apparently people need to justify themselves in not liking a character?

[spirosz]

Her ideals are her own, people are defined by their experiences and Ashley is no different - walk through her life and her torment and relation to "humanity" and what her family went through and you might be end up as a "biitch" too, doesn't justify her reasoning more so than anyone else, but she is a capable warrior, friend and she did and will go out of her way to for Aliens, regardless of how she feels about them.

[AresKeith]

silverexile17s wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Given my experiences with all kinds of Mass Effect fans these past 5 years, I feel confident and sure enough to say that roughly around 90% of the people who hate Ashley, usually don't truly understand her character.

Pretty much

*looks back at them calling her a racist*

You mean how they ignore the fact that her ideals are why the galaxy doesn't trust each-other?

*looks back at galaxy burning because no-one could see past their "bear and the dog" mentalities*

Yeah, that worked out great (scarcasim).

Didn't change the fact that she was right after all when everyone was out for themselves when the Reapers first attacked

[spirosz]

She still gets nuked though.

Her ME3 never happened.

Thanks Bioware. Sex appeal.

[spirosz]

Also, it's hilarious to point her out, when each other race does the exact same **** and some are worse. She, through Shepard or her own growth, at least draws a line to an extent.

[wolfhowwl]

silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hackett is one of the highest ranking officers in the military. Maybe there is a difference between what he knows about Cerberus and can get away with versus Ashley, who is what, a Lieutenant?

Vs the entirety of the Alliance High Command?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe it's equivilant that Hackett standing before the entire Alliance Leadership would even out compared to Ashley standing before an Admiral?

Hackett is, per the codex, head of the Alliance military.

It is not equivalent.

Wrong. He is the head of one single fleet out of EIGHT. He becomes head of the Alliance military only after the Reapers kill everyone else in the attack on Earth and Arcturus Station. Prior to ME3, he is one fleet commander out of eight that reports to the Alliance Admiralty Board (the three Admirals that get wasted in the Earth prolouge when the Reapers land). So, yes, it is equivilant.
Honestly, dude, check your timestamps - this is pre-ME3.

From the codex:

Admiral Steven Hackett is a decorated officer in the Systems Alliance, currently assigned to Arcturus Station on the far side of the Sol Relay. In the battle for the Citadel, Admiral Hackett commanded the Fifth Fleet. Following that victory, he was promoted to head of the Alliance military.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Known_Associates#Steven_Hackett

Also I checked up on Ashley too, you are comparing an NCO to the head of the military.

Following the complete and utter collapse of the Alliance military. And FYI, Alliance military isn't the entire Alliance.

So, NO, I'm not. Hackett reports to a Council of Admirals just like Tali did on the quarian Admiralty board. Gerrel was head of his military, but he still answered to the Board. Same for Hackett. So, compared to them, no, it's NOT an inaccurate comparison.

No the Codex said following "the battle for the Citadel."

The Alliance has branded Cerberus as terrorists and tries collaborators as such. Regardless if Hackett answers to a board, he is still head of the military and has vastly more power in the organization than Ashley. Who do you think can break the rules more easily, the man at the top or a peon? Their situation cannot be compared.

Speaking of Boards,  the CEO of Walmart reports to the Board of Directors but he is still head of the business. When it comes to violating corporate policy, do you really think his (Hackett's) situation is equivalent to that of a shift manager (Ashley's)?

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:05 .

[Obadiah]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Ashley had every right to say what she did, the Alliance had branded Cerberus a terrorist organization and she seen first hand their atrocities in ME1 including murdering an Alliance admiral.

You know why I love that scene? It is Shep's bubble of righteousness bursting. It is at that point, when one of your closest companions judges Shep harshly, that the player is forced to consider that this Cerberus alliance, no matter the reason, may be wrong.

Shep's other old companions Tali and Garrus are concerned about Cerberus alliance, but they can be convinced. The VS is the one that really challenges Shep.

[AresKeith]

Zjarcal wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Given my experiences with all kinds of Mass Effect fans these past 5 years, I feel confident and sure enough to say that roughly around 90% of the people who hate Ashley, usually don't truly understand her character.

Pretty much

*looks back at them calling her a racist*

Lol, why is it that apparently people need to justify themselves in not liking a character?

They don't, unless they're being hypocritical about it

[Rusty Sandusky]

 She might not be a bitch but for me she's a radioactive skeleton.

[Obadiah]

AresKeith wrote...
...
It's not, just because she doesn't trust the aliens (mostly their government) and acts ignorant about it doesn't make her a racist

That depends on your definition of racist. Some people take a much harder line than you.

[Xilizhra]

Obadiah wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Ashley had every right to say what she did, the Alliance had branded Cerberus a terrorist organization and she seen first hand their atrocities in ME1 including murdering an Alliance admiral.

You know why I love that scene? It is Shep's bubble of righteousness bursting. It is at that point, when one of your closest companions judges Shep harshly, that the player is forced to consider that this Cerberus alliance, no matter the reason, may be wrong.

Shep's other old companions Tali and Garrus are concerned about Cerberus alliance, but they can be convinced. The VS is the one that really challenges Shep.

At that point in time, the alliance isn't wrong. Just by sticking it out for that long, Shepard was able to take out most of the Collectors, a budding human Reaper, and got an entirely new and valuable ship with its own loyal AI, which could leave Cerberus after being unshackled... but that happened quite late in the mission.

[maaaad365]

I'm curious what the developers say about this thread. It would be interesting to get some imput from the people who developed the character.

[silverexile17s]

Dextro Milk wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

Silver, what point are you trying to make in this thread? Because I can't glean anything from your posts.

The point is that Ashley isn't really all that dependible a character.

That's just silly.

She's self-rightious and has a rather closed "black and white" view of the world.

Not Really.

She doesn't even acknowledge that she was wrong on Horzion to call you a traitor.

So what? If I was in her shoes, I wouldn't say sorry either. If I saw my best friend working for terrorists... umm yeah...

She had the right not trust you, and she doesn't *have* to say sorry.

To put it bluntly, I'm validating that her character isn't all that great.

That's just stupid.

1) Proof? because she doesn't even bother to accept the fact that she was wrong about you on Horizon, then doesn't even bother to try and fix that.

2) How? She is stubbornly anti-alien. She even states that her reasons for distrusting turians are personal, which Shepard can call her out on, and even akined her joining the Alliance as being a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation because it was either joining the faction that scapegoated her grandfather, or go one being a disgraced, blacklisted family. She even maintains those "I'm no fan of aliens" views all the way to ME3, where such views are only going to complicate things. Hell, even Wrex softened up to aliens. When the bitter old krogan loses his anti-alien sentiments before her, that should say something.

3) The proof was everywhere around her on Horizon. Collectors, Husks, a glowing entity that called itself Harbinger. And Kaidan is able to look back on the event and Realize, after everything they went through in ME1, right up to stealing the Normandy from the Citadel and infiltrating the Terminus Systems illegally, that he should have known you'd only do this for the right Reasons. Garrus, Liara and Tali all realized this, as did Wrex, Joker, Dr. Chakwas, and eventually Kaidan as well. The only one that doesn't is Ashley. When you;re the only one out of all your alien friends that doesn't him/her, it kinda screams "I think you misjudged the situatiuon." She didn't have the right to mistrust you, and does *have* to say sorry. After everything that Happened in ME1, she of all people should know you better then that by now, and at least Kaidan apologizes and admits this. She never does.

4) No, that's just accurate. Compared to every other character, even Kaidan, she fails.

[spirosz]

J. Reezy wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I would just like to point out that underlining and italicizing your words does not make them right.

You sure about that?

Only hoes like Reese's. 

Lol oh you.

Did whole grain just make fun of Reese's?

Oh snapo sono. 

[spirosz]

silverexile17s wrote...

softened up to aliens. 

So did Ashley.  

Horizon was fault of both Shepard and Ashley and well... the writers.

  

[silverexile17s]

AresKeith wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Given my experiences with all kinds of Mass Effect fans these past 5 years, I feel confident and sure enough to say that roughly around 90% of the people who hate Ashley, usually don't truly understand her character.

Pretty much

*looks back at them calling her a racist*

You mean how they ignore the fact that her ideals are why the galaxy doesn't trust each-other?

*looks back at galaxy burning because no-one could see past their "bear and the dog" mentalities*

Yeah, that worked out great (scarcasim).

Didn't change the fact that she was right after all when everyone was out for themselves when the Reapers first attacked

Except that the same can be said for the Alliance. You really think it would have been any damn different if Thessia was burning and Earth wasn't? Let me clarify something for you -- it wouldn't. What you and many others fail to get is that the Alliance is just as guilty of this, making the entire arguement about the bear and the dog complely moot point.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:09 .

[SlottsMachine]

Zjarcal wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Given my experiences with all kinds of Mass Effect fans these past 5 years, I feel confident and sure enough to say that roughly around 90% of the people who hate Ashley, usually don't truly understand her character.

Pretty much

*looks back at them calling her a racist*

Lol, why is it that apparently people need to justify themselves in not liking a character?

Well there's not liking a character (hey I don't like Garrus), and spewing hypocritical nonsense continuously.

[AresKeith]

silverexile17s wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Given my experiences with all kinds of Mass Effect fans these past 5 years, I feel confident and sure enough to say that roughly around 90% of the people who hate Ashley, usually don't truly understand her character.

Pretty much

*looks back at them calling her a racist*

You mean how they ignore the fact that her ideals are why the galaxy doesn't trust each-other?

*looks back at galaxy burning because no-one could see past their "bear and the dog" mentalities*

Yeah, that worked out great (scarcasim).

Didn't change the fact that she was right after all when everyone was out for themselves when the Reapers first attacked

Except that the same can be said for the Alliance. You really think it would have been any damn different if Thessia was burning and Earth wasn't? Let me clarify something for you -- it wouldn't. What you and many others fail to get is that the Alliance is just as guilty of this, making the entire arguement about the bear and the dog complely moot point.

And Ashley doesn't like the politics in the Alliance either

I'm getting the feeling that this has much more to do with just Ashley

[silverexile17s]

wolfhowwl wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hackett is one of the highest ranking officers in the military. Maybe there is a difference between what he knows about Cerberus and can get away with versus Ashley, who is what, a Lieutenant?

Vs the entirety of the Alliance High Command?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe it's equivilant that Hackett standing before the entire Alliance Leadership would even out compared to Ashley standing before an Admiral?

Hackett is, per the codex, head of the Alliance military.

It is not equivalent.

Wrong. He is the head of one single fleet out of EIGHT. He becomes head of the Alliance military only after the Reapers kill everyone else in the attack on Earth and Arcturus Station. Prior to ME3, he is one fleet commander out of eight that reports to the Alliance Admiralty Board (the three Admirals that get wasted in the Earth prolouge when the Reapers land). So, yes, it is equivilant.
Honestly, dude, check your timestamps - this is pre-ME3.

From the codex:

Admiral Steven Hackett is a decorated officer in the Systems Alliance, currently assigned to Arcturus Station on the far side of the Sol Relay. In the battle for the Citadel, Admiral Hackett commanded the Fifth Fleet. Following that victory, he was promoted to head of the Alliance military.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Known_Associates#Steven_Hackett

Also I checked up on Ashley too, you are comparing an NCO to the head of the military.

Following the complete and utter collapse of the Alliance military. And FYI, Alliance military isn't the entire Alliance.

So, NO, I'm not. Hackett reports to a Council of Admirals just like Tali did on the quarian Admiralty board. Gerrel was head of his military, but he still answered to the Board. Same for Hackett. So, compared to them, no, it's NOT an inaccurate comparison.

No the Codex said following "the battle for the Citadel."

The Alliance has branded Cerberus as terrorists and tries collaborators as such. Regardless if Hackett answers to a board, he is still head of the military and has vastly more power in the organization than Ashley. Who do you think can break the rules more easily, the man at the top or a peon? Their situation cannot be compared.

Speaking of Boards,  the CEO of Walmart reports to the Board of Directors but he is still head of the business. When it comes to violating corporate policy, do you really think his (Hackett's) situation is equivalent to that of a shift manager (Ashley's)?

And the Codex also doesn't state "leader of the military" equaling "leader of the Alliance." Again, Hackett reports to a Council of Admirals, just like how a Secretary of Defense reports to the senate.

The proof of Shepard being right is all around them on Horizon. Collectors. Husks. An entity calling itself Harbinger. He answers to the board of directors, and the Alliance parlament, which is a massive senate. So, in comparison, Ashley reporting to an Admiral is evaned out by Hackett reporting to the Alliance Admiralty Board and Alliance Parlament. When there is an entire board of equally-ranked Admirals and a massive senate that watches over your every move, you don't have nearly as much freedom as you think, so, yes, the situations ARE comparible.

Hackett compared to the Rest of the Alliance is comparible to Ashley reporting to one single Admiral.

[silverexile17s]

AresKeith wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Given my experiences with all kinds of Mass Effect fans these past 5 years, I feel confident and sure enough to say that roughly around 90% of the people who hate Ashley, usually don't truly understand her character.

Pretty much

*looks back at them calling her a racist*

You mean how they ignore the fact that her ideals are why the galaxy doesn't trust each-other?

*looks back at galaxy burning because no-one could see past their "bear and the dog" mentalities*

Yeah, that worked out great (scarcasim).

Didn't change the fact that she was right after all when everyone was out for themselves when the Reapers first attacked

Except that the same can be said for the Alliance. You really think it would have been any damn different if Thessia was burning and Earth wasn't? Let me clarify something for you -- it wouldn't. What you and many others fail to get is that the Alliance is just as guilty of this, making the entire arguement about the bear and the dog complely moot point.

And Ashley doesn't like the politics in the Alliance either

I'm getting the feeling that this has much more to do with just Ashley

Yet she believes them over Shepard? How does that work

No. This has to do with nothing else but Ashley. After all, that's the point of this thread.

[silverexile17s]

J. Reezy wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Given my experiences with all kinds of Mass Effect fans these past 5 years, I feel confident and sure enough to say that roughly around 90% of the people who hate Ashley, usually don't truly understand her character.

Pretty much

*looks back at them calling her a racist*

You mean how they ignore the fact that her ideals are why the galaxy doesn't trust each-other?

*looks back at galaxy burning because no-one could see past their "bear and the dog" mentalities*

Yeah, that worked out great (scarcasim).

Didn't change the fact that she was right after all when everyone was out for themselves when the Reapers first attacked

Except that the same can be said for the Alliance. You really think it would have been any damn different if Thessia was burning and Earth wasn't? Let me clarify something for you -- it wouldn't.

You would know wouldn't you. Oh wait, nope. Because that never happened.

You mean like how it "didn't" happen in ME1 if you leave the Council (the dog) to the geth (the bear)?
Face it - "bear and the dog" applies to all races, not just Humanity and the Council -- that;s what Ashley, and a lot of people here, never got.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:17 .

[SlottsMachine]

AresKeith wrote...

I'm getting the feeling that this has much more to do with just Ashley

Isn't it always, and it wouldn't be so bad if people could see that and ackowledge it. And its like this with every character, well except for Mordin, as his awesome-ness is unquestionable.