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[silverexile17s]

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

softened up to aliens. 

So did Ashley.  

Horizon was fault of both Shepard and Ashley and well... the writers.

  

"I'm no fan of aliens." -- Direct quote from Ashley on Horizon in ME2:whistle:

[silverexile17s]

General Slotts wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I'm getting the feeling that this has much more to do with just Ashley

Isn't it always, and it wouldn't be so bad if people could see that and ackowledge it. And its like this with every character, well except for Mordin, as his awesome-ness is unquestionable. 

That's just looking for an excuse -- sometime, there really is no ulterior motive, no "great secret." Sometimes, it's nothing else but the debate.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 novembre 2013 - 06:03 .

[AresKeith]

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

softened up to aliens. 

So did Ashley.  

Horizon was fault of both Shepard and Ashley and well... the writers.

"I'm no fan of aliens." -- Direct quote from Ashley on Horizon in ME2:whistle:

Ok and? 

That doesn't mean she didn't softened up to aliens, given her history she has every right to not fully trust them

Modifié par AresKeith, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:22 .

[eyezonlyii]

silverexile17s wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

she still follows you into battle. /thread

Like a soldier, not a comrade. You don't need unresolved baggage like that.

as long as she follows orders, i could care less. it's the same thing for all of the ME2 crew before their loyalty missions, only not directed at shepard. and though, i don't have a playthrough with her in 3 yet, i would most like consider the coup attempt her loyalty mission, same as Kaidan,

Didn't the Suicide Mission teach you how dangerous it is having unresolved garbage trailing you around like that? If you don't take care of that stuff, if you don't build, or re-build, that mutuial trust, they die. And as a news flash for you -- Kaidan has more to say about Horizon then she does, opting to clear the air about it rather then ignore it, and admits that he went too far and should have trusted that you had good reasons for what you were doing. He also has more development on the Normandy, with a scene after you rescue Dr. Brynn's team about him beginning to have doubts about Cerberus, and if everyone in the group is really like the Illusive Man or not.

this is where the side of me that agrees with Massively comes out. I. DON'T CARE. If you die because you're unfocused, that's on you. My goal is to end the reaper threat. As long as she is willing to jump into the fray, then she can think whatever she wants.

[spirosz]

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

softened up to aliens. 

So did Ashley.  

Horizon was fault of both Shepard and Ashley and well... the writers.

  

"I'm no fan of aliens." -- Direct quote from Ashley on Horizon in ME2:whistle:

 

She softens up to the whole squad, full of aliens - shocking I know.  And fan = hate, right.  I'm not fan of cats, but I love my best friends cats because I'm basically around them all the time.  

[silverexile17s]

J. Reezy wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Yet she believes them [/i]over Shepard? How does that work

See when a suspicion and a situation love each other very much you get these things called suspicious situations. Peoples' trustworthiness get called into account during these events.

Yet Kaidan is able to look back at the event and realize "hey, there has to be a reason why I'm the only one that didn't trust Shepard" and then able to say "I served with Shepard so long, I should know him/her better then this - I should have known that he/she had good reasons for doing this." That's more then Ashley does.

[spirosz]

Kaidan and Ashley are two different people with different experiences and views on life and aliens in general.  Let's compare Shepard to not treating Ashley on Horizon in a way that would be related to a better understanding from her perspective, no?  Put both Kaidan and Ashley side by side and you're basically getting the same dialogue FROM Shepard.  Where as, since he went through a lot with them, shouldn't he APPROACH them both in a different matter?

Oh wait, it's all her fault.  

Modifié par spirosz, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:26 .

[silverexile17s]

AresKeith wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

softened up to aliens. 

So did Ashley.  

Horizon was fault of both Shepard and Ashley and well... the writers.

"I'm no fan of aliens." -- Direct quote from Ashley on Horizon in ME2:whistle:

Ok and? 

That doesn't mean she didn't softened up to aliens, given her history she has every right to not fully trust them

When Wrex, the grumpy old krogan, is able to soften up to turians, and when Tali, the quarian who's people were exiled by geth, can befriend Legion, and when Garrus, the turian badass who killed xenophobic twits on a daily basis, can join up with Shepard without question, and when Kaidan, the human who is throughlly a "pro-alien cooperation" person, can admit that he may have been wrong about everyone in Cerberus being evil, while Ashley remains the exact same about aliens, the geth in partciular, it tends to scream out "i'm not going to change."

[dreamgazer]

I'm reading every post in this thread in Jules Winnfield's voice.

That's all, carry on.

[spirosz]

J. Reezy wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Yet she believes them [/i]over Shepard? How does that work

See when a suspicion and a situation love each other very much you get these things called suspicious situations. Peoples' trustworthiness get called into account during these events.

Yet Kaidan is able to look back at the event and realize "hey, there has to be a reason why I'm the only one that didn't trust Shepard" and then able to say "I served with Shepard so long, I should know him/her better then this - I should have known that he/she had good reasons for doing this." That's more then Ashley does.

I'm going to assume you're talking about that email. Considering Ashley sends one as well, what are you trying to prove?

That apparently Kaidan and Ashley have to act exactly the same because they both went through the exact same experiences and walked each others shoes and have the same mindset towards everything and Ashley is really wearing a wig of Kaidan. 

[SlottsMachine]

silverexile17s wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Yet she believes them [/i]over Shepard? How does that work

See when a suspicion and a situation love each other very much you get these things called suspicious situations. Peoples' trustworthiness get called into account during these events.

Yet Kaidan is able to look back at the event and realize "hey, there has to be a reason why I'm the only one that didn't trust Shepard" and then able to say "I served with Shepard so long, I should know him/her better then this - I should have known that he/she had good reasons for doing this." That's more then Ashley does.

Has Shepard earned that though? Based of his/her actions in game the answer is no. 

[spirosz]

dreamgazer wrote...

I'm reading every post in this thread in Jules Winnfield's voice.

That's all, carry on.

Say that again, mother ****er - I double dog dare you.  

[silverexile17s]

eyezonlyii wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

she still follows you into battle. /thread

Like a soldier, not a comrade. You don't need unresolved baggage like that.

as long as she follows orders, i could care less. it's the same thing for all of the ME2 crew before their loyalty missions, only not directed at shepard. and though, i don't have a playthrough with her in 3 yet, i would most like consider the coup attempt her loyalty mission, same as Kaidan,

Didn't the Suicide Mission teach you how dangerous it is having unresolved garbage trailing you around like that? If you don't take care of that stuff, if you don't build, or re-build, that mutuial trust, they die. And as a news flash for you -- Kaidan has more to say about Horizon then she does, opting to clear the air about it rather then ignore it, and admits that he went too far and should have trusted that you had good reasons for what you were doing. He also has more development on the Normandy, with a scene after you rescue Dr. Brynn's team about him beginning to have doubts about Cerberus, and if everyone in the group is really like the Illusive Man or not.

this is where the side of me that agrees with Massively comes out. I. DON'T CARE. If you die because you're unfocused, that's on you. My goal is to end the reaper threat. As long as she is willing to jump into the fray, then she can think whatever she wants.

Then YOU. RISK. YOUR. BACK. GETTING. SHOT. It's not her at risk -- it's you, because she becomes your XO -- your second in command, who you're supposed to entrust your back to. Or didn't you remember that the Virmire Survivor becomes your XO when the re-join the ship crew? It's not her skin your risking -- it's YOURS.

[silverexile17s]

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

softened up to aliens. 

So did Ashley.  

Horizon was fault of both Shepard and Ashley and well... the writers.

  

"I'm no fan of aliens." -- Direct quote from Ashley on Horizon in ME2:whistle:

 

She softens up to the whole squad, full of aliens - shocking I know.  And fan = hate, right.  I'm not fan of cats, but I love my best friends cats because I'm basically around them all the time.  

Only the people that she knows. Just look at Legion -- no love there, in spite of Tali trusting it. Let me repeat that -- Tali is more trusting of Legion then Ashley. What does that tell you?

[spirosz]

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

softened up to aliens. 

So did Ashley.  

Horizon was fault of both Shepard and Ashley and well... the writers.

  

"I'm no fan of aliens." -- Direct quote from Ashley on Horizon in ME2:whistle:

 

She softens up to the whole squad, full of aliens - shocking I know.  And fan = hate, right.  I'm not fan of cats, but I love my best friends cats because I'm basically around them all the time.  

Only the people that she knows. Just look at Legion -- no love there, in spite of Tali trusting it. Let me repeat that -- Tali is more trusting of Legion then Ashley. What does that tell you?

That they're two different people.... 

[wolfhowwl]

That Tali is stupid.

It potentially only costs Tali her life and the Quarian species its existence.

[silverexile17s]

J. Reezy wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Yet she believes them [/i]over Shepard? How does that work

See when a suspicion and a situation love each other very much you get these things called suspicious situations. Peoples' trustworthiness get called into account during these events.

Yet Kaidan is able to look back at the event and realize "hey, there has to be a reason why I'm the only one that didn't trust Shepard" and then able to say "I served with Shepard so long, I should know him/her better then this - I should have known that he/she had good reasons for doing this." That's more then Ashley does.

I'm going to assume you're talking about that email. Considering Ashley sends one as well, what are you trying to prove?

The fact that Kaidan does this regardless of if you romanced him or not. Forgive me, but I don't think admitting that you were wrong should depend on sharing a bunk with her. Kaidan makes the above thoughts and considerations regardless of if he's romanced or not. Ashley is basically dependant on being romanced.

[Hazegurl]

silverexile17s wrote...
1) No,  the main character is praised for being a war hero due to either conquering...

I'm talking about from the perspective of the person playing the game. Not the story. 
 

And yet, this somehow doesn't need to apply to Ashley? Kaidan talks it out and clears the air in the hospital and works to re-earn your trust. Ashley by contrast acts like she's entitled, as if Horzion didn't happen.

This I can understand. But those who love/like Ashley seem to be okay with it. So why does it matter? Personally I always keep Kaidan alive so I can't judge the convo with Ash.

2) It still ignores the simple baseline fact that very few people seem to realize that "the bear and the dog" applies to everyone in the galaxy and how they view the Alliance. Ashley never seems to realize that the entire reason the Council treats us like that, is because they're afraid of being the ones left to fend off the bear by the Alliance. It's a situation that will never change unless someone takes the plunge and says "sooner or later, you're going to have to trust something I say on faith."

I think the mistrust goes deeper than Ash's quote. Power is a hard thing to share or give up. Also, the way I see it Ash isn't saying the same fear isn't the case for aliens. She's not saying humans are innocent of this behavior. All she is saying is that humans shouldn't place themselves in that position. Which imo, is a smart decision. Who is rescuing the Elcor from Dekunna even after the Council agrees to help the Alliance? Shepard. Not the Council that's for sure. Humans shouldn't allow themselves to be placed in that position and that is the position many anti-human aliens want for humans.

3) And that's why [/u][/i]the Council fears that humans will make them fight the bear. Because humans are developing so fast, they believe humans would take any oppertunity to get ahead...

You're ignoring every other element to this, it extends beyond simple fear. The Asari illegally hording Prothean tech, the Turians as the strongest military in the galaxy. The Salarians with info at their finger tips, along with their own secret research going on. It's all about power and staying ahead. Not passing it along to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that asks for it.  

I still don't see how any of this makes Ashley a bad person. As a matter of fact, it means that she recognizes the game better than a pro alien Shepard.  Heck, even Kaidan gets sick of the Council after a while.

As for the squad-mates, that's not true -- look at Samara. Her affiliation with Shepard doesn't mean she has to quit being a Justicar....

Once again you are listing non Alliance personnel which makes your point moot. Not even Joker or Dr. Chakwas was Alliance when they joined Shepard.  

Admiral Hackett [/u][/i]can board a Cerberus-controled  Normandy pre-suicide mission and serve as a leasion between Shepard and the Admiralty Board for what happend with Arrival. Without leaving the Alliance or getting demoted, or losing any influence with the Alliance Leadership.

Ah, the same Admiral who was supplying Alliance weapons to criminals and asks Shepard to "assassinate" them when they start making demands?

The same Admiral who sent Shepard to infiltrate a Batarian prison "off the grid"? 

I highly doubt he's speaking the truth to the Admiralty board or Shepard.

I bet Hackett's report to the board is more along the lines of: Shepard found out about an undercover agent in a Batarian prison and decided to rescue her when he found out about an imminent reaper invasion... 

4) Easy to say when she somehow gets a pass on having to re-earn Shepard's trust. Hell, at least Kaidan accepted that he needed to clear the air if he was going to ever work with Shepard again.

Don't think she earned your Shepard's trust? Don't invite her back on the Normandy. Your problem is solved. But I guess it's tough trying to control other player's playthroughs as well as your own.  

Modifié par Hazegurl, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:33 .

[spirosz]

silverexile17s wrote...

Ashley is basically dependant on being romanced.

You realize that doesn't make it any less viable, right?  

[silverexile17s]

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

softened up to aliens. 

So did Ashley.  

Horizon was fault of both Shepard and Ashley and well... the writers.

  

"I'm no fan of aliens." -- Direct quote from Ashley on Horizon in ME2:whistle:

 

She softens up to the whole squad, full of aliens - shocking I know.  And fan = hate, right.  I'm not fan of cats, but I love my best friends cats because I'm basically around them all the time.  

Only the people that she knows. Just look at Legion -- no love there, in spite of Tali trusting it. Let me repeat that -- Tali is more trusting of Legion then Ashley. What does that tell you?

That they're two different people.... 

One who has three times the reason to hate the geth can put it behind her, yet your second in command can't? And this is the person you're supposed to be trusting your back to?





(When one isn't enough.)