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Ashley… is she really a B****?


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#526
eyezonlyii

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silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

softened up to aliens. 


So did Ashley.  

Horizon was fault of both Shepard and Ashley and well... the writers.

  

"I'm no fan of aliens." -- Direct quote from Ashley on Horizon in ME2:whistle:


:whistle: 

She softens up to the whole squad, full of aliens - shocking I know.  And fan = hate, right.  I'm not fan of cats, but I love my best friends cats because I'm basically around them all the time.  

Only the people that she knows. Just look at Legion -- no love there, in spite of Tali trusting it. Let me repeat that -- Tali is more trusting of Legion then Ashley. What does that tell you?

 wrong post...:mellow:

Modifié par eyezonlyii, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:34 .


#527
silverexile17s

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spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Ashley is basically dependant on being romanced.


You realize that doesn't make it any less viable, right?  

Yes, it does. Kaidan is willing to admit he was wrong about you without needing to be romanced. Ashley, unless romanced, will never even acknowledge that she called you a traitor on Horizon.

#528
AresKeith

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silverexile17s wrote...

When Wrex, the grumpy old krogan, is able to soften up to turians, and when Tali, the quarian who's people were exiled by geth, can befriend Legion, and when Garrus, the turian badass who killed xenophobic twits on a daily basis, can join up with Shepard without question, and when Kaidan, the human who is throughlly a "pro-alien cooperation" person, can admit that he may have been wrong about everyone in Cerberus being evil, while Ashley remains the exact same about aliens, the geth in partciular, it tends to scream out "i'm not going to change."


Wrex is able to sofften to turians but still don't fully trust them except for Garrus, same with Ashley

Ashley doesn't have experience be around Legion and learning everything about the Geth as everyone else

#529
Zazzerka

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silverexile, if you don't stop underlining and italicising seemingly random words, I am going to smack you so hard.

#530
Star fury

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maaaad365 wrote...

I'm curious what the developers say about this thread. It would be interesting to get some imput from the people who developed the character.



Chris L'Etoile wrote...

I find it interesting that so many people have stereotyped her as "the racist." At a couple of points she blasts the Terra Firma party as being "bigots," and she openly admires the power of the Destiny Ascension in the Citadel approach cutscene - not quite what you'd expect from a xenophobe.

In her first conversation she spells out her thinking pretty explicitly (the bear and dog metaphor), and it's nothing more than a short paraphrase of the most memorable passage in Charles Pelligrino and George Zebrowski's novel "The Killing Star":

When
we put our heads together and tried to list everything we could say 
with certainty about other civilizations, without having actually met 
them, all that we knew boiled down to three simple laws of alien 
behavior: 

1. THEIR SURVIVAL WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR SURVIVAL. 
If
an alien species has to choose between them and us, they won't choose 
us. It is difficult to imagine a contrary case; species don't survive by
being self-sacrificing.


2. WIMPS DON'T BECOME TOP DOGS. 
No
species makes it to the top by being passive. The species in charge of 
any given planet will be highly intelligent, alert, aggressive, and 
ruthless when necessary.


3. THEY WILL ASSUME THAT THE FIRST TWO LAWS APPLY TO US.


And it's hard to dispute this. At the least, you could say the krogan live by these rules. It's certainly a more suspicious and pessimistic point of view than most of us are comfortable with. But is it racism, or realism?

Anyway.
I fully expected some people write her off as a bigot. What surprises me is that no one's pointed out that her position does have some sense. Evidently, I did something very wrong here.

To answer a question from... I don't know, tens of pages ago, if you romance her and have persuade, you can convince her to be a bit less extreme in her opinions.


BSN **** forum engine irks me, it can even hadle simple quoting.

Modifié par Star fury, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:54 .


#531
silverexile17s

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eyezonlyii wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

softened up to aliens. 


So did Ashley.  

Horizon was fault of both Shepard and Ashley and well... the writers.

  

"I'm no fan of aliens." -- Direct quote from Ashley on Horizon in ME2:whistle:


:whistle: 

She softens up to the whole squad, full of aliens - shocking I know.  And fan = hate, right.  I'm not fan of cats, but I love my best friends cats because I'm basically around them all the time.  

Only the people that she knows. Just look at Legion -- no love there, in spite of Tali trusting it. Let me repeat that -- Tali is more trusting of Legion then Ashley. What does that tell you?

 wrong post...:mellow:


No, that's intentional.

#532
spirosz

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silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Ashley is basically dependant on being romanced.


You realize that doesn't make it any less viable, right?  

Yes, it does. Kaidan is willing to admit he was wrong about you without needing to be romanced. Ashley, unless romanced, will never even acknowledge that she called you a traitor on Horizon.


Technically, he is... so. 

Modifié par spirosz, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:35 .


#533
eyezonlyii

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silverexile17s wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

she still follows you into battle. /thread

Like a soldier, not a comrade. You don't need unresolved baggage like that.

as long as she follows orders, i could care less. it's the same thing for all of the ME2 crew before their loyalty missions, only not directed at shepard. and though, i don't have a playthrough with her in 3 yet, i would most like consider the coup attempt her loyalty mission, same as Kaidan,



Didn't the Suicide Mission teach you how dangerous it is having unresolved garbage trailing you around like that? If you don't take care of that stuff, if you don't build, or re-build, that mutuial trust, they die. And as a news flash for you -- Kaidan has more to say about Horizon then she does, opting to clear the air about it rather then ignore it, and admits that he went too far and should have trusted that you had good reasons for what you were doing. He also has more development on the Normandy, with a scene after you rescue Dr. Brynn's team about him beginning to have doubts about Cerberus, and if everyone in the group is really like the Illusive Man or not.

this is where the side of me that agrees with Massively comes out. I. DON'T CARE. If you die because you're unfocused, that's on you. My goal is to end the reaper threat. As long as she is willing to jump into the fray, then she can think whatever she wants.



Then YOU. RISK. YOUR. BACK. GETTING. SHOT. It's not her at risk -- it's you, because she becomes your XO -- your second in command, who you're supposed to entrust your back to. Or didn't you remember that the Virmire Survivor becomes your XO when the re-join the ship crew? It's not her skin your risking -- it's YOURS.

Assuming I take her on missions with me? Pressley was XO and never once left the ship. Anyway, the suicide mission itself disproves what you;re saying because you can have unloyal members survive because AS COMMANDER, it is your job to put people in the best places, and if I feel that her place is on the ship when I leave so be it. Oh and how about the fact that my Shepard was questioning Cerberus the entire time? TIM knew this and still sent me out because he knew I could/would finish the mission. Same with Ash. She wanted to rejoin the Normandy, no one twisted her arm. If she volunteers, then that should tell you she trusts you enough to watch your back from then on. 

#534
silverexile17s

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Zazzerka wrote...

silverexile, if you don't stop underlining and italicising seemingly random words, I am going to smack you so hard.

I don't see what it matters. It;s not like I'm screaming at people. It's just how I type.

#535
Zazzerka

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Use one or the other. Please. For me.

#536
SlottsMachine

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spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

spirosz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Ashley is basically dependant on being romanced.


You realize that doesn't make it any less viable, right?  

Yes, it does. Kaidan is willing to admit he was wrong about you without needing to be romanced. Ashley, unless romanced, will never even acknowledge that she called you a traitor on Horizon.


Technically, he is... so. 


I ****ing hate the Lazarus Project so much.  

#537
David7204

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Why?

#538
Obadiah

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J. Reezy wrote...

spirosz wrote...

That they're two different people.... 

Image IPB



Different people? That's just crazy talk man.

Do you not understand? Ashley should behave like someone else to be considered valuable!!!!!

Modifié par Obadiah, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:40 .


#539
silverexile17s

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eyezonlyii wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

she still follows you into battle. /thread

Like a soldier, not a comrade. You don't need unresolved baggage like that.

as long as she follows orders, i could care less. it's the same thing for all of the ME2 crew before their loyalty missions, only not directed at shepard. and though, i don't have a playthrough with her in 3 yet, i would most like consider the coup attempt her loyalty mission, same as Kaidan,



Didn't the Suicide Mission teach you how dangerous it is having unresolved garbage trailing you around like that? If you don't take care of that stuff, if you don't build, or re-build, that mutuial trust, they die. And as a news flash for you -- Kaidan has more to say about Horizon then she does, opting to clear the air about it rather then ignore it, and admits that he went too far and should have trusted that you had good reasons for what you were doing. He also has more development on the Normandy, with a scene after you rescue Dr. Brynn's team about him beginning to have doubts about Cerberus, and if everyone in the group is really like the Illusive Man or not.

this is where the side of me that agrees with Massively comes out. I. DON'T CARE. If you die because you're unfocused, that's on you. My goal is to end the reaper threat. As long as she is willing to jump into the fray, then she can think whatever she wants.



Then YOU. RISK. YOUR. BACK. GETTING. SHOT. It's not her at risk -- it's you, because she becomes your XO -- your second in command, who you're supposed to entrust your back to. Or didn't you remember that the Virmire Survivor becomes your XO when the re-join the ship crew? It's not her skin your risking -- it's YOURS.

Assuming I take her on missions with me? Pressley was XO and never once left the ship. Anyway, the suicide mission itself disproves what you;re saying because you can have unloyal members survive because AS COMMANDER, it is your job to put people in the best places, and if I feel that her place is on the ship when I leave so be it. Oh and how about the fact that my Shepard was questioning Cerberus the entire time? TIM knew this and still sent me out because he knew I could/would finish the mission. Same with Ash. She wanted to rejoin the Normandy, no one twisted her arm. If she volunteers, then that should tell you she trusts you enough to watch your back from then on. 



She is the person that is supposed to be your XO, You do realize I'm not talking about missions Either, right? And FYI, Pressly also was someone that admitted that he was a "fool" to distrust aliens and would gladly give his life for any member of the crew, regardless of their race.
And if they aren't loyal, they will die regardless of where you put them. The only ones that survive are if you fully upgrade the Normandy, and if you have enough bodies holding the access point to ensure that at least half the squad survives.
And once again, That's why Ashley should have realized that you had good reasons and that you don't answer to Cerberus. Liara, Tali and Garrus could all affirm this. And Ash wanted to follow you because you were a better soldier, not because she fully trusted you. She voices discontent about your choices same as in ME1 as if nothing changed, especally with the quarian vs geth choice.

#540
SlottsMachine

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David7204 wrote...

Why?


You wouldn't understand. 

#541
AresKeith

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General Slotts wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Why?


You wouldn't understand. 


That's nonsense

#542
David7204

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That's true. I probably wouldn't.

#543
Zazzerka

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David7204 wrote...

Why?

Because using italics and underline is overkill. Duh.

#544
spirosz

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David7204 wrote...

That's true. I probably wouldn't.


WHAT?

HAHAHA.  Oh David.  

#545
Hazegurl

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eyezonlyii wrote...

this is where the side of me that agrees with Massively comes out. I. DON'T CARE. If you die because you're unfocused, that's on you. My goal is to end the reaper threat. As long as she is willing to jump into the fray, then she can think whatever she wants.


Oh I so agree with this. It's not your commander's job to play councilor for you and your personal issues. Go see Dr. Chakwas and get some anti-depressants or something. I so would have loved to recruit Kaidan in ME2, at least he knows how to resolve his own issues.

#546
wolfhowwl

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silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hackett is one of the highest ranking officers in the military. Maybe there is a difference between what he knows about Cerberus and can get away with versus Ashley, who is what, a Lieutenant?

Vs the entirety of the Alliance High Command?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe it's equivilant that Hackett standing before the entire Alliance Leadership would even out compared to Ashley standing before an Admiral?


Hackett is, per the codex, head of the Alliance military.

It is not equivalent.

Wrong. He is the head of one single fleet out of EIGHT. He becomes head of the Alliance military only after the Reapers kill everyone else in the attack on Earth and Arcturus Station. Prior to ME3, he is one fleet commander out of eight that reports to the Alliance Admiralty Board (the three Admirals that get wasted in the Earth prolouge when the Reapers land). So, yes, it is equivilant.
Honestly, dude, check your timestamps - this is pre-ME3.


From the codex:

Admiral Steven Hackett is a decorated officer in the Systems Alliance, currently assigned to Arcturus Station on the far side of the Sol Relay. In the battle for the Citadel, Admiral Hackett commanded the Fifth Fleet. Following that victory, he was promoted to head of the Alliance military.


masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Known_Associates#Steven_Hackett

Also I checked up on Ashley too, you are comparing an NCO to the head of the military.

Following the complete and utter collapse of the Alliance military. And FYI, Alliance military isn't the entire Alliance.

So, NO, I'm not. Hackett reports to a Council of Admirals just like Tali did on the quarian Admiralty board. Gerrel was head of his military, but he still answered to the Board. Same for Hackett. So, compared to them, no, it's NOT an inaccurate comparison.


No the Codex said following "the battle for the Citadel."

The Alliance has branded Cerberus as terrorists and tries collaborators as such. Regardless if Hackett answers to a board, he is still head of the military and has vastly more power in the organization than Ashley. Who do you think can break the rules more easily, the man at the top or a peon? Their situation cannot be compared.

Speaking of Boards,  the CEO of Walmart reports to the Board of Directors but he is still head of the business. When it comes to violating corporate policy, do you really think his (Hackett's) situation is equivalent to that of a shift manager (Ashley's)?

And the Codex also doesn't state "leader of the military" equaling "leader of the Alliance." Again, Hackett reports to a Council of Admirals, just like how a Secretary of Defense reports to the senate.

The proof of Shepard being right is all around them on Horizon. Collectors. Husks. An entity calling itself Harbinger. He answers to the board of directors, and the Alliance parlament, which is a massive senate. So, in comparison, Ashley reporting to an Admiral is evaned out by Hackett reporting to the Alliance Admiralty Board and Alliance Parlament. When there is an entire board of equally-ranked Admirals and a massive senate that watches over your every move, you don't have nearly as much freedom as you think, so, yes, the situations ARE comparible.

Hackett compared to the Rest of the Alliance is comparible to Ashley reporting to one single Admiral.


No.

What no amount of underlining or italics will get around is the vast gulf of power that exists between the head of the Alliance military and a NCO.

The situations are not comparable no matter how much you want  them to be.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:46 .


#547
Ryzaki

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Xilizhra wrote...

Well let's see in ME2 Ashley actually can email you apologizing for how she acted, which shows that she actually can work out the issues

If you romance her, which I somehow don't think Silverexile did.


This.

I'm tired of people syaing "but they apologize in a letter!" No. You get diddly squat if you didn't romance them (which is utterly stupid).

#548
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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General Slotts wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Why?


You wouldn't understand. 


I'm sorry, Slotts. I have to tell him. It's the only way he'll understand.

You see, Geth, Slotts father was an astronaut. He would often go up an fix the oribital satellites that are oh so essential for the quality of life that we enjoy today. Well, something went horribly wrong. The Federation betrayed Slott's father's employers and blew up the space station. Slott's father survived the inital explosion, but he unfortunately fell into the planet's orbit. Unfortunately what was left of the noble man was about what I'd imagine a piece of pizza would look like if you dropped it on the floor. The way he views it, and it's a viewpoint that I agree with, is that it is simply unfair that we lack the technology to bring his father back, for he was just as brave and noble a man as Shepard was. Therefore, Shepard should not have been allowed to be ressurected. There is simply not enough justice in this world.

I think it would be best for everyone if you never mentioned this around him again. We must always consider the feeling of the people we interact with. Thank you.

#549
spirosz

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Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Well let's see in ME2 Ashley actually can email you apologizing for how she acted, which shows that she actually can work out the issues

If you romance her, which I somehow don't think Silverexile did.


This.

I'm tired of people syaing "but they apologize in a letter!" No. You get diddly squat if you didn't romance them (which is utterly stupid).


It isn't stupid. 

#550
spirosz

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The Mad Hanar wrote...

General Slotts wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Why?


You wouldn't understand. 


I'm sorry, Slotts. I have to tell him. It's the only way he'll understand.

You see, Geth, Slotts father was an astronaut. He would often go up an fix the oribital satellites that are oh so essential for the quality of life that we enjoy today. Well, something went horribly wrong. The Federation betrayed Slott's father's employers and blew up the space station. Slott's father survived the inital explosion, but he unfortunately fell into the planet's orbit. Unfortunately what was left of the noble man was about what I'd imagine a piece of pizza would look like if you dropped it on the floor. The way he views it, and it's a viewpoint that I agree with, is that it is simply unfair that we lack the technology to bring his father back, for he was just as brave and noble a man as Shepard was. Therefore, Shepard should not have been allowed to be ressurected. There is simply not enough justice in this world.

I think it would be best for everyone if you never mentioned this around him again. We must always consider the feeling of the people we interact with. Thank you.


Long story short, The Shepard lives on.