1121 réponses à ce sujet

[BaladasDemnevanni]

She isn't a ****, she's simply boring as hell (imo).

[Iakus]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The thing with Ashley is in ME3, if you renegade the hell out of her on Mars, then give her Tennyson in the hospital, and paragon her from then out to the confrontation, you never have a problem with her. Ever. Even in the confrontation with Udina with my renegade Shep, she stands down. No, she doesn't stroke your ego. I play femShep. It's that her dialogue on the Normandy is ... just ... so ... bad. The character was horribly written in ME3. The reason she's alive is that she's better written than Kaidan in ME1 and I found my Shep bonded more with her. My Shep wasn't interested in learning about "Brain Camp". Why? She was a biotic.

Ash's dialogue on the Normandy wasn't bad, it was nonexistant!  You need dialogue in order to have bad dialogue

[Iakus]

silverexile17s wrote...

You mean the person that she trusted over you if you romanced another person - in which you need to visit her and buy her stuff to get back on her good side.  I mean, "egos stroked"? That's both a gross oversimplification, and a gross misinterpertation.

She shot Udina.  Based on your word alone.  She didn't trust him over Shepard. 

Sorry, but that's not an apology -- Kaiden does the same thing and still goes out of his way to make it clear that "ill never doubt you again." You don't get that comittment from Ashley unless you're in a relationship with her and even then, it's never really spoken. Kaiden leaves zero doubt that he knows he made a mistake not trusting you and is truly sorry for it, and does so regardless of weather or not you and he got together.

So your problem is Ash doesn't grovel?   Can't help you there.

I'd personally rather not have my trust in a character be solely dependant on weather or not I'm sharing a bunk with them.
It's not "egos stroked," it's wanting some damn reasurance that she's someone you can count on with your life -- and Kaiden just gives you that more then Ashely ever did. She's too prideful to accept that it was a mistake - she says that she won't doubt you again (if you're in a relationship with her), but never once says the act of doubting you was a mistake. It's things like that, plus her generally uncomprimising and inflexible "black and white" stance to life that makes her less appealing of a character compared to Kaiden, who is more apt to compromise and is more leanient then she is.

Shot
The 
Human
Councilor
On
Shepard's 
Word
Alone

[Redbelle]

I missed Ash's character on the Normandy. Going to speak to her, and discovering she has no dialogue wheel interaction.......

It's not just Ash. Vega get's that treatment too.

[Iakus]

Redbelle wrote...

I missed Ash's character on the Normandy. Going to speak to her, and discovering she has no dialogue wheel interaction.......

It's not just Ash. Vega get's that treatment too.

Vega at least gets to visit Shep's cabin and talk about the N7 program.

And you can spar with him early on.  

Ash ...gets to pass out on the floor of the observation deck. 

[wolfhowwl]

Br3ad wrote...

Is there a single human character who isn't?

I don't think they're that bad relative to the rest of Mass Effect. They just don't have the advantage of being an alien which apparently goes a long way towards compensating for poor writing or a boring personality.

iakus wrote...
Vega at least gets to visit Shep's cabin and talk about the N7 program.

And you can spar with him early on.  
Ash ...gets to pass out on the floor of the observation deck. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie]

Congratulations, Bioware didn't care about your favored character despite her being alive in far more games than Kaidan.

Ashley fans should have spammed the forums more between ME2 and ME3, you done ****ed up.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 09 novembre 2013 - 11:59 .

[Seboist]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Is there a single human character who isn't?

I don't think they're that bad relative to the rest of Mass Effect. They just don't have the advantage of being an alien which apparently goes a long way towards compensating for poor writing or a boring personality.

Which is comical, as humans are the most varied in terms of characterization(not the Davidian definition) and the aliens tend to be two dimensional human-caricatures in costumes at best or semi-jokes (Volus,Hanar,etc).

Modifié par Seboist, 10 novembre 2013 - 12:02 .

[Redbelle]

iakus wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

I missed Ash's character on the Normandy. Going to speak to her, and discovering she has no dialogue wheel interaction.......

It's not just Ash. Vega get's that treatment too.

Vega at least gets to visit Shep's cabin and talk about the N7 program.

And you can spar with him early on.  

Ash ...gets to pass out on the floor of the observation deck. 

I did enjoy Vega's sparring match alot. It played well to his character. It's a shame his character lost his balls of brass characterisation where he's the kind of soldier who regularly nearly frags the commander.

[Iakus]

wolfhowwl wrote...

I don't think they're that bad relative to the rest of Mass Effect. They just don't have the advantage of being an alien which apparently goes a long way towards compensating for poor writing or a boring personality.  

Yeah, if Ash was a krogan, cries would go from "She's racist!" to "She's awesome!"

Congratulations, Bioware didn't care about your favored character despite her being alive in far more games than Kaidan.

Ashley fans should have spammed the forums more between ME2 and ME3, you done ****ed up.

Lesson learned 

Modifié par iakus, 10 novembre 2013 - 01:00 .

[silverexile17s]

Omega Torsk wrote...

Circular arguments! And effective use of time, indeed.

Says the person who isn't even bothering to offer anything constructive?

[silverexile17s]

iakus wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The thing with Ashley is in ME3, if you renegade the hell out of her on Mars, then give her Tennyson in the hospital, and paragon her from then out to the confrontation, you never have a problem with her. Ever. Even in the confrontation with Udina with my renegade Shep, she stands down. No, she doesn't stroke your ego. I play femShep. It's that her dialogue on the Normandy is ... just ... so ... bad. The character was horribly written in ME3. The reason she's alive is that she's better written than Kaidan in ME1 and I found my Shep bonded more with her. My Shep wasn't interested in learning about "Brain Camp". Why? She was a biotic.

Ash's dialogue on the Normandy wasn't bad, it was nonexistant!  You need dialogue in order to have bad dialogue

That's the point -- her character was basically 2-dimensional. Add that to the fact that she was generally not as likible compared to Kaiden, and you actually wonder why more people chose to save him on Virmire?

[Iakus]

silverexile17s wrote...

That's the point -- her character was basically 2-dimensional. Add that to the fact that she was generally not as likible compared to Kaiden, and you actually wonder why more people chose to save him on Virmire?

I think you got that last part backwards

Modifié par iakus, 10 novembre 2013 - 01:10 .

[Jorji Costava]

iakus wrote...

Yeah, if Ash was a krogan, cries would go from "She's racist!" to "She's awesome!"

That seems pretty much like how things played out with Javik.

[silverexile17s]

iakus wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

You mean the person that she trusted over you if you romanced another person - in which you need to visit her and buy her stuff to get back on her good side.  I mean, "egos stroked"? That's both a gross oversimplification, and a gross misinterpertation.

She shot Udina.  Based on your word alone.  She didn't trust him over Shepard. 

Sorry, but that's not an apology -- Kaiden does the same thing and still goes out of his way to make it clear that "ill never doubt you again." You don't get that comittment from Ashley unless you're in a relationship with her and even then, it's never really spoken. Kaiden leaves zero doubt that he knows he made a mistake not trusting you and is truly sorry for it, and does so regardless of weather or not you and he got together.

So your problem is Ash doesn't grovel?   Can't help you there.

I'd personally rather not have my trust in a character be solely dependant on weather or not I'm sharing a bunk with them.
It's not "egos stroked," it's wanting some damn reasurance that she's someone you can count on with your life -- and Kaiden just gives you that more then Ashely ever did. She's too prideful to accept that it was a mistake - she says that she won't doubt you again (if you're in a relationship with her), but never once says the act of doubting you was a mistake. It's things like that, plus her generally uncomprimising and inflexible "black and white" stance to life that makes her less appealing of a character compared to Kaiden, who is more apt to compromise and is more leanient then she is.

Shot
The 
Human
Councilor
On
Shepard's 
Word
Alone

1) You mean only after he drew the gun?
And only after 50+ seconds of talking her down? Kaiden at least was more formal - he asked what the hell was going on and didn't instantly assume hostility -- he tried a more neutral stance first, remember? And the fact that after all her talk of hating politicians, she actually had a debate over the word of a politician that screwed you over in ME1 was more trustworthy then Shepard? Kaiden I could understand having a bit of a debate as to who's word is true, you you'd forgive Ashley for doubting you for the word of Udina? If Ash was as loyal as you tried to play her off as, she would have just shot Undia like she always said she wanted to, and done so right off the bat -- she simply didn't trust you. End of story.
IDK if you noticed, but Kaiden took a more neutral stance in that standoff, (What's going on? I don't want to hurt you). And Kaiden hesitating to turn on Udina is more forgivable then Ash doing so, since she was always distrustful of politicians to begin with. So you really don't have a point.
Just putting that out there.

2) Wrong. The problem is that Ash pretends it never happened. She basically acts like what she said on Horizon was just some bad dream. Kaiden owns up to it and resolves it. Ash buries it and doesn't ever face up to the fact that she shut you out. Even in their respective romance routes, Kaiden is more understanding and forgiving of you brekaing-up/leaving with him then Ashely is.
- "I needed a connection with you and you shut me down. And now you're upset because I moved on? No - you don't get to be angry about that."
Kaiden at least accepts and understands that he was responcible for it. Ashley blames you 100% without even trying to consider weather or not her reactions on Horizon caused a break-up.
It's not "groveling," it's having a damn heart, and the humility to know when you effed up and come clean about it.

3)After
He
Drew
A
Gun
First

And
She
Doubted
You
For
A
Politician
:pinched:
I mean, after everything she said about not trusting Udina and calling him a slimeball, she still has to debate weather or not Shep is more trustworthy? Kaiden I could understand since he's a bit more idealistic, but Ashley? No, that I don't understand.
And I must note that you've gotten confused again -- Shepard never ordered either one to shoot Udina. They fired on their own perogitive. They aimed the guns at him, but that was just a supressing measure to get him to come quietly. You never caused them to shoot him - they make that choice themselves.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 novembre 2013 - 01:27 .

[Omega Torsk]

silverexile17s wrote...

Omega Torsk wrote...

Circular arguments! And effective use of time, indeed.

Says the person who isn't even bothering to offer anything constructive?

Just refusing to feed you, is all...

[silverexile17s]

iakus wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

That's the point -- her character was basically 2-dimensional. Add that to the fact that she was generally not as likible compared to Kaiden, and you actually wonder why more people chose to save him on Virmire?

I think you got that last part backwards

Wrong again -- She was a hard-ass with an inflexible personality. Kaiden was more understanding and generally more malible then her. Then comes ME3, where Kaiden is even more fleshed out while Ashley retains much of the same demenior she had in ME1, and is left rather 2-dimensional.
The above is why most save Kaiden on Virmire.

[silverexile17s]

Omega Torsk wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Omega Torsk wrote...

Circular arguments! And effective use of time, indeed.

Says the person who isn't even bothering to offer anything constructive?

Just refusing to feed you, is all...

Says the one posting comments without any meaning to them?

[Jorji Costava]

silverexile17s wrote...

The above is why most save Kaiden on Virmire.

Is there any empirical data to back this up? The ME3 stat sheet indicates that Ashley survived people's ME3 playthroughs 53% of the time, while Kaiden survived 17% of the time. In addition, Ashley got 5.4% of the vote for "Most popular character," while Kaiden got 1.5%. Granted, we have to factor in that most people who played ME3 didn't play ME1 and so didn't even make the Virmire choice; still, the above data makes it seem questionable at best to simply assert that most players saved Kaiden on Virmire.

[Sir DeLoria]

osbornep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

The above is why most save Kaiden on Virmire.

Is there any empirical data to back this up? The ME3 stat sheet indicates that Ashley survived people's ME3 playthroughs 53% of the time, while Kaiden survived 17% of the time. In addition, Ashley got 5.4% of the vote for "Most popular character," while Kaiden got 1.5%. Granted, we have to factor in that most people who played ME3 didn't play ME1 and so didn't even make the Virmire choice; still, the above data makes it seem questionable at best to simply assert that most players saved Kaiden on Virmire.

The official stat sheet for ME3 is utter bogus and proves next to nothing. It's impossible to argue which character is more popular and debating it is pointless.

[Jorji Costava]

Necanor wrote...

The official stat sheet for ME3 is utter bogus and proves next to nothing. It's impossible to argue which character is more popular and debating it is pointless.

On the basis of what evidence do you claim this? Did someone show that the data came from an unreliable source, or was collected in an improper way?

[Iakus]

silverexile17s wrote...

1) You mean only after he drew the gun?
And only after 50+ seconds of talking her down? Kaiden at least was more formal - he asked what the hell was going on and didn't instantly assume hostility-- he tried a more neutral stance first, remember? 

Udina:  SHepard's with Cerberus!  He's blocking our escape!
Ashley:  Everybody hang on!  Shepard, what's happening here?

And the fact that after all her talk of hating politicians, she actually had a debate over the word of a politician that screwed you overin ME1 was more trustworthy then Shepard? 

WTF are you talking about? There was never any debate (unless you screwed up along the way, maybe). Heck Shepard even said "We don't have time to negotiate."

Ashley [/u]for doubting you for the word of Udina? If Ash was as loyal as you tried to play her off as, she would have just shot Undia like she always said she wanted to, and done so right off the bat -- she simply didn't trust you. End of story.
IDK if you noticed, but Kaiden took a more neutral stance in that standoff, (What's going on? I don't want to hurt you). And Kaiden hesitating to turn on Udina is more forgivable then Ash doing so, since she was always distrustful of politicians to begin with. So you really don't have a point.
Just putting that out there.

I have no idea what you're talking about here, and starting to think you may simply be trolling.

2) Wrong. The problem is that Ash pretends it never happened. She basically acts like what she said on Horizon was just some bad dream. Kaiden owns up to it and resolves it. Ash buries it and doesn't ever face up to the fact that she shut you out. Even in their respective romance routes, Kaiden is more understanding and forgiving of you brekaing-up/leaving with him then Ashely is.
- "I needed a connection with you and you shut me down. And now you're upset because I moved on? No - you don't get to be angry about that."
Kaiden at least accepts and understands that he was responcible for it. Ashley blames you 100% without even trying to consider weather or not her reactions on Horizon caused a break-up.
It's not "groveling," it's having a damn heart, and the humility to know when you effed up and come clean about it.

Ash said stupid things.  Shepard said stupid things. Personally, I'd rather think Horizon was a bad dream myself.  I blame the writers.  

besides which I've always done loyal playthroughs, so Ash has no cause to complain anyway

3)After
He
Drew
A
Gun
First

And
She
Doubted
You
For
A
Politician
:pinched:

Umm.  No

"Udina, step away from the terminal"  Ash turned her gun on Udina before she knew he was armed.

I mean, after everything she said about not trusting Udina and calling him a slimeball, she still has to debate weather or not Shep is more trustworthy? Kaiden I could understand since he's a bit more idealistic, but Ashley? No, that I don't understand.

Geez, what did you do to Ash that caused this "debate" to happen.  Seriously, I never got that in my playthough.

And I must note that you've gotten confused again -- Shepard never ordered either one to shoot Udina. They fired on their own perogitive. They aimed the guns at him, but that was just a supressing measure to get him to come quietly. You never caused them to shoot him - they make that choice themselves.

Ash believed Shepard and turned her gun on Udina.  In my playthrough without debate or blue/red dialogue.  And will shoot Udina herself if Shepard hesitates.  And this isn't a sign of trust?

Modifié par iakus, 10 novembre 2013 - 01:58 .

[Sir DeLoria]

osbornep wrote...

Necanor wrote...

The official stat sheet for ME3 is utter bogus and proves next to nothing. It's impossible to argue which character is more popular and debating it is pointless.

On the basis of what evidence do you claim this? Did someone show that the data came from an unreliable source, or was collected in an improper way?

This data was gathered from all playthroughs up to early 2013, that's your first two catches. One player can play the game ten times and his choices carry the same weight as ten individual players who each only played the game once. Secondly it's not up-to-date by a long shot, who knows how the stats changed by now? These stats also only incorporate the stats of players who were online at the time. All offline playthroughs are completely ignored.

Modifié par Necanor, 10 novembre 2013 - 02:04 .

[Undead Han]

osbornep wrote...

Necanor wrote...

The official stat sheet for ME3 is utter bogus and proves next to nothing. It's impossible to argue which character is more popular and debating it is pointless.

On the basis of what evidence do you claim this? Did someone show that the data came from an unreliable source, or was collected in an improper way?

Neither of those things happened.

BSNers hand wave Bioware's statistics when they don't agree with their viewpoints. The truth of the matter, regardless of whether or not some BSNers want to admit it, is that Bioware has a better idea of which characters were more popular than those fans do. The devs have actual have in game statistics whereas those fans just have unsupported opinions.

[NeonFlux117]

Ashley sucks. But not as much as Suit Rat Tali Vas Ineedaparachute.

One of the few bright spots of ME3's "choices" and character interactions is I can or let Garrus, bust a cap in Ash. And also get rid of annoying Suit Rat Tali.

Of course this is all subjective.

But Ash sucks. Almost has hard as Tali, but not quite. But close.

[FlamingBoy]

Ashley is one of those characters who is actually very interesting however her world view is controversial and despite being well written she wasn't written well enough for people to like her in cases when they disagreed with her. For example her case against aliens is not a compelling one and as a result comes off as a racist (obviously unintended by the writers).

Hence she comes off as a bit of a close minded person despite her interest in poetry and spirituality, kind of unfortunate really.