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[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Racial prejudice is a form of prejudice, which is even in that encyclopedia that you want to pretend is a real dictionary.

You didn't actually look at the link, did you?

"Any action, practice, or belief that reflects the racial worldview—the ideology that humans are divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called “races,” that there is a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural behavioral features, and that some “races” are innately superior to others."

All the other definitions are ones added by the cite itself. Of course you know nothing about the encylopedia. You just tried to find a place that agreeded with you. 

Which was... the dictionary? The one that you were previously snobbish about me not using when you thought it was a Wikipedia link?

You know that words can have more than one meaning, yes?

No one used wikipedia. I used an actual dictionary, you used a branch of an encylopedia. The meanings that others give to words are not their actual meanings, that is the common usage of it. You do know this yes? Of course you don't. Because in Xil's world, Xil can make up the meanings of words and Xil can decide what is valid or not. Not the people who actually defined the words themselves. Xil obviously knows much more.

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...
Which is still a remark about her species.

So "She's an alien" is a racist comment, even if it's true?

Human organization vs. whole other species.

And she's clearly far more hostile to the human organization

Humans look like monkeys. Which nonhuman characters say that?

We don't get to see a lot of non-Earth animals.  Though Wrex does call Mordin a pyjack on several occasions in ME3

Except we've just given quotes where she says things to that effect.

And we've also seen quotes where she outright declares that humans are not superior, and accuses others of racism.

[Xilizhra]

So "She's an alien" is a racist comment, even if it's true?

When specifically used in a negative way, yes.

And she's clearly far more hostile to the human organization

While apparently being somewhat hostile to other species.

We don't get to see a lot of non-Earth animals. Though Wrex does call Mordin a pyjack on several occasions in ME3

Noted. Wrex has his own issues.

And we've also seen quotes where she outright declares that humans are not superior, and accuses others of racism.

This doesn't contradict her being somewhat prejudiced against aliens.

[Iakus]

Steelcan wrote...

The way I see it Ashely is essentially a rebel without a cause.

She doesn't like aliens and doesn't approve of the Alliance's bridge-building, but she doesn't like Terra Firma or Cerberus either.

So she doesn't like aliens, or human centrists, make up your mind already.

The best part is that she is more xenophobic than the actual Cerberus personnel we see, even the ones that weren't handpicked by TIM.

Ash is distrustful.  She sees everyone as willing to protect themselves and their friends first.  Politicians, corporations, governments, they care about themselves first and anyone else is secondary. 

The Alliance is her "group"  They're the ones she looks to for protection and to protect.  She believes th aAlliance has to be strong and independant, willing to take on challenges on its own.  Allying with others is fine, as long as you're ready to go it alone if need be

"I'm not opposed to having allies.  I just wouldn't count on them staying allies"

She has spent her whole life struggling against her family name.  It sets her apart and she has had to prove herself over and over on her own, with few allies in the system.  She thinks the Alliance should be the same way:  willing to deal with things on their own. 

As Lord Palmerston put it about Britain "We have no prmanent allies, we have no permanent enemies, we only have permanent interests"  That, I think, is Ash's view.

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

And we've also seen quotes where she outright declares that humans are not superior, and accuses others of racism.

This doesn't contradict her being somewhat prejudiced against aliens.

Actually it does.  She believes humans are not superior.  She's cynical about everyone

[Steelcan]

iakus wrote...

Ash is distrustful.  She sees everyone as willing to protect themselves and their friends first.  Politicians, corporations, governments, they care about themselves first and anyone else is secondary. 

The Alliance is her "group"  They're the ones she looks to for protection and to protect.  She believes th aAlliance has to be strong and independant, willing to take on challenges on its own.  Allying with others is fine, as long as you're ready to go it alone if need be

"I'm not opposed to having allies.  I just wouldn't count on them staying allies"

She has spent her whole life struggling against her family name.  It sets her apart and she has had to prove herself over and over on her own, with few allies in the system.  She thinks the Alliance should be the same way:  willing to deal with things on their own. 

As Lord Palmerston put it about Britain "We have no prmanent allies, we have no permanent enemies, we only have permanent interests"  That, I think, is Ash's view.

Which raises the question, what her problem with pro-human groups like Cerberus?  Petrovsky never came of as racist or bigotted, TIM himself is willing to work with aliens much more readily than say Mickaelovic.

If its their methods but not ideology she opposes thats another matter.  She just happens to lack context in which their operations were carried, we all do so its not a dig against her specifically.  She can't have an informed opinion against them until she knows why they do what they do.

[Iakus]

Steelcan wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ash is distrustful.  She sees everyone as willing to protect themselves and their friends first.  Politicians, corporations, governments, they care about themselves first and anyone else is secondary. 

The Alliance is her "group"  They're the ones she looks to for protection and to protect.  She believes th aAlliance has to be strong and independant, willing to take on challenges on its own.  Allying with others is fine, as long as you're ready to go it alone if need be

"I'm not opposed to having allies.  I just wouldn't count on them staying allies"

She has spent her whole life struggling against her family name.  It sets her apart and she has had to prove herself over and over on her own, with few allies in the system.  She thinks the Alliance should be the same way:  willing to deal with things on their own. 

As Lord Palmerston put it about Britain "We have no prmanent allies, we have no permanent enemies, we only have permanent interests"  That, I think, is Ash's view.

Which raises the question, what her problem with pro-human groups like Cerberus?  Petrovsky never came of as racist or bigotted, TIM himself is willing to work with aliens much more readily than say Mickaelovic.

If its their methods but not ideology she opposes thats another matter.  She just happens to lack context in which their operations were carried, we all do so its not a dig against her specifically.  She can't have an informed opinion against them until she knows why they do what they do.

She doesn't seem to have a problem with being pro-humanity as such.  But her focus is on humanity being able to stand independant in a galaxy that doesn't always have their best interests in mind.  She's not concerned with dragging down others (unless it comes to a shooting war)

Based on what is shown in ME1, Cerberus cares little for humans either.  Actually, if you look at her comment in ME3 with the huskified trooper "They claim to stand for humanity, but they do this to their own people!" Petrovsky may not have seemed particularly bigoted, but he also had no problem experimenting on people (humans and aliens) in turning them into adjutants. 

[Br3admax]

I tend not to use ME3 as a basis of what Cerberus stands for. It was just a hash attempt by BioWare to make the game a shooting gallery.

[Iakus]

Br3ad wrote...

I tend not to use ME3 as a basis of what Cerberus stands for. It was just a hash attempt by BioWare to make the game a shooting gallery.

Well, there's always Akuze...

I just used Mars because Ash's comment pretty much sums up to me why she's so disgusted with them.  They are completely ruthless in their goals

[AresKeith]

Br3ad wrote...

I tend not to use ME3 as a basis of what Cerberus stands for. It was just a hash attempt by BioWare to make the game a shooting gallery.

Tbh, it's hard to do that with Cerberus period with them being so inconsistant

[IllusiveManJr]

I didn't realize this was such a passionate topic.

[General TSAR]

iakus wrote...
I just used Mars because Ash's comment pretty much sums up to me why she's so disgusted with them.  They are completely ruthless in their goals

I know, pretty awesome eh?

[Ryzaki]

AresKeith wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I tend not to use ME3 as a basis of what Cerberus stands for. It was just a hash attempt by BioWare to make the game a shooting gallery.

Tbh, it's hard to do that with Cerberus period with them being so inconsistant

Yeah this.

ME2 gave me whiplash "Weren't you those crazy guys trying to kill me before? What happened?" 

Then ME3 made them back into mad scientists. If anything was the change it was their presentation in ME2.

Also Ashley's jealous remarks regarding Liara are pretty dumb when Shep's not flirting or romancing her in any way. Not my fault she took something as innocent as expressing concern for her grandfather as a "I LOVE YOU HAVE MY BABIES."

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 novembre 2013 - 06:44 .

[Obadiah]

Br3ad wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Can we please all actually learn what racist means? Prejudice and stereotypes are not racism.

Er, yes they are.

Define racism. Right now. Because if you actually knew anything about the actual meaning of the words that you spout, like "bigot" or "racist" you would know that there is a difference between them. Learn English, Xil. Because racism is about the superiority of one race to the other, which I have seen no evidence of. Educate me on how you define racism and why this is the right answer as compaired to its actual meaning. 

If you take out superiority, then that still leaves the "separate but equal" folks.

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

Also Ashley's jealous remarks regarding Liara are pretty dumb when Shep's not flirting or romancing her in any way. Not my fault she took something as innocent as expressing concern for her grandfather as a "I LOVE YOU HAVE MY BABIES."

I admit, it's also rather strange when Shepard has shown absolutely no interst in Liara at all.  But everyone seems to assume that Shep's into her as soon as she comes aboard.

As such, I shut Liara down as quick as I can.

[Darks1d3]

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Also Ashley's jealous remarks regarding Liara are pretty dumb when Shep's not flirting or romancing her in any way. Not my fault she took something as innocent as expressing concern for her grandfather as a "I LOVE YOU HAVE MY BABIES."

I admit, it's also rather strange when Shepard has shown absolutely no interst in Liara at all.  But everyone seems to assume that Shep's into her as soon as she comes aboard.

As such, I shut Liara down as quick as I can.

Yeah it's pretty hard to avoid romancing either one in the first game. Ended up "romancing" ashley on accident in my first playthrough. If only I had as much bad luck as this guy.

https://i.chzbgr.com...6992/hC26BDEF9/

Modifié par Darks1d3, 14 novembre 2013 - 07:13 .

[Ryzaki]

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Also Ashley's jealous remarks regarding Liara are pretty dumb when Shep's not flirting or romancing her in any way. Not my fault she took something as innocent as expressing concern for her grandfather as a "I LOVE YOU HAVE MY BABIES."

I admit, it's also rather strange when Shepard has shown absolutely no interst in Liara at all.  But everyone seems to assume that Shep's into her as soon as she comes aboard.

As such, I shut Liara down as quick as I can.

It is. Just makes it look like people are looking for something to gossip about. Goddamn.

Even more headdesk worthy when you're not flirting with EITHER of them. What the hell are you getting jealous for? I'm not interested in either of you women!

I wish Ashley had as blatant a rejection. Not hiding behind regs or being a douche just plain "Nope not interested." 

[AresKeith]

Ryzaki wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Also Ashley's jealous remarks regarding Liara are pretty dumb when Shep's not flirting or romancing her in any way. Not my fault she took something as innocent as expressing concern for her grandfather as a "I LOVE YOU HAVE MY BABIES."

I admit, it's also rather strange when Shepard has shown absolutely no interst in Liara at all.  But everyone seems to assume that Shep's into her as soon as she comes aboard.

As such, I shut Liara down as quick as I can.

It is. Just makes it look like people are looking for something to gossip about. Goddamn.

Even more headdesk worthy when you're not flirting with EITHER of them. What the hell are you getting jealous for? I'm not interested in either of you women!

I wish Ashley had as blatant a rejection. Not hiding behind regs or being a douche just plain "Nope not interested." 

Writing for teh cat fight drama 

[KaiserShep]

Steelcan wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ash is distrustful.  She sees everyone as willing to protect themselves and their friends first.  Politicians, corporations, governments, they care about themselves first and anyone else is secondary. 

The Alliance is her "group"  They're the ones she looks to for protection and to protect.  She believes th aAlliance has to be strong and independant, willing to take on challenges on its own.  Allying with others is fine, as long as you're ready to go it alone if need be

"I'm not opposed to having allies.  I just wouldn't count on them staying allies"

She has spent her whole life struggling against her family name.  It sets her apart and she has had to prove herself over and over on her own, with few allies in the system.  She thinks the Alliance should be the same way:  willing to deal with things on their own. 

As Lord Palmerston put it about Britain "We have no prmanent allies, we have no permanent enemies, we only have permanent interests"  That, I think, is Ash's view.

Which raises the question, what her problem with pro-human groups like Cerberus?  Petrovsky never came of as racist or bigotted, TIM himself is willing to work with aliens much more readily than say Mickaelovic.

If its their methods but not ideology she opposes thats another matter.  She just happens to lack context in which their operations were carried, we all do so its not a dig against her specifically.  She can't have an informed opinion against them until she knows why they do what they do.

Admiral Kahoku's death, as well as the deaths of the men led into the trap, trump all of this. Their reasons why don't matter, unless Kahoku himself was operating against the Alliance, and Cerberus stopped him.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 14 novembre 2013 - 07:15 .

[Han Shot First]

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Also Ashley's jealous remarks regarding Liara are pretty dumb when Shep's not flirting or romancing her in any way. Not my fault she took something as innocent as expressing concern for her grandfather as a "I LOVE YOU HAVE MY BABIES."

I admit, it's also rather strange when Shepard has shown absolutely no interst in Liara at all.  But everyone seems to assume that Shep's into her as soon as she comes aboard.

I don't see it as unrealistic, whether or not Ashley should have been written that way. More often than not people are irrational in their jealousies. Ashley was threatened by the new attractive new crew member and so she treated her as the competition, whether or not there was any reason to do so.

It probably makes a lot less sense if someone is playing as FemShep, but that's probably a holdover from when Ashley was going to be a potential LI for a Shepard of any gender.

[Ryzaki]

AresKeith wrote...
Writing for teh cat fight drama 

I guess so. Probably made bets those bastards.

[Iakus]

Han Shot First wrote...

I don't see it as unrealistic, whether or not Ashley should have been written that way. More often than not people are irrational in their jealousies. Ashley was threatened by the new attractive new crew member and so she treated her as the competition, whether or not there was any reason to do so.

It probably makes a lot less sense if someone is playing as FemShep, but that's probably a holdover from when Ashley was going to be a potential LI for a Shepard of any gender.

Except it's not just Ash.  Apparantly "scuttlebutt" among the crew says Shepard and Liara are an item.  Whether they are or not.

[KaiserShep]

I can't imagine a cat fight with Liara wouldn't end with the other person being stuck in a stasis field.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Liara, being an alien, isn't even remotely attractive to my Shepard. Ashley is an outlet, something that he can cling to as an outlet. On his end, the feelings are pretty clouded. Ashley thinks it's love, and Shepard is more nebulous with his feelings.

[Ryzaki]

KaiserShep wrote...

I can't imagine a cat fight with Liara wouldn't end with the other person being stuck in a stasis field.

Catfight with Shepard would probably end in sex.