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Ashley… is she really a B****?


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#1001
DeinonSlayer

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Or lucky.


'Luck' doesn't exist when you're fighting Russian Spetznaz or VDV. They're far too well trained for that. No, you avoid bullets the old fashioned way: by putting something big and strong between you and the shooter. Preferably something that also conceals you.

Cover is one thing.

Concealment is another.

Cover and Concealment is gold.

Almost word for word what William Frisbee wrote on his site - a guide for aspiring writers of military sci-fi.

I'm curious what you'd think of assigning Ashley to train the non-human squadmates in Alliance tactics.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:05 .


#1002
Ryzaki

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Oh god David just...what.

Why is it better Liara not know how to fight before meeting Shepard? WHY?

#1003
MassivelyEffective0730

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Or lucky.


'Luck' doesn't exist when you're fighting Russian Spetznaz or VDV. They're far too well trained for that. No, you avoid bullets the old fashioned way: by putting something big and strong between you and the shooter. Preferably something that also conceals you.

Cover is one thing.

Concealment is another.

Cover and Concealment is gold.

Almost word for word what William Frisbee wrote on his site - a guide for aspiring writers of military sci-fi.

I'm curious what you'd think of assigning Ashley to train the non-human squadmates in Alliance tactics.


I'd be asking why they needed training in human tactics.

#1004
Iakus

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

No Special Forces qualifications, no schools where she's learned skills that might make her stand out, no experience in the field (shore assignments and crap posts), history of being black-listed... I'm not seeing anything that makes her not replaceable by someone else of the same rank (who with the benefit of not being black-listed is much, much more likely to have practical field experience and more diverse skills from attending schools that Ashley's name keeps her out of).

She has commendations for being a good infantry squad leader. And that's about it. Sure, she works hard, but she has nothing I need for this mission (except a vagina). Sure, she got screwed by the alliance when she got black-listed, but in all honesty, the very fact that she's been black-listed means I don't want her. It means that she's missed out on all the other experiences, details, and schools to learn different skils (airborne, air assault, etc. and I mean the ME equivalent as such). She's got nothing that another squared away NCO doesn't have (with that NCO having more experience and useful skills). This isn't an infantry mission. This is an assignment that requires a lot of maverick ideas and unorthodox skills that are extraordinary nature. 

Ashley might be one of the best of the ordinary, but that doesn't cut it when it comes to a matter requiring the extraordinary. I don't hold her on that level. 


My Shepard apparantly disagrees, as he commented that her file showed she was an exemplary soldier who should be serving with the Fleet.  That her talents were wasted on guarding colony worlds.   

She has apparantly trained in various fields (she's zero-g qualified, for example) but hasn't had a chance to put that training to use until joining the Normandy

#1005
DeinonSlayer

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Ryzaki wrote...

Oh god David just...what.

Why is it better Liara not know how to fight before meeting Shepard? WHY?

"Well, I'll tell you...."

He's going to tell HE'S GOING TO TELL
He's going to tell HE'S GOING TO TELL
He's going to tell HE'S GOING TO TELL

*cue Lancelot's dramatic exit*

#1006
DeinonSlayer

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Or lucky.


'Luck' doesn't exist when you're fighting Russian Spetznaz or VDV. They're far too well trained for that. No, you avoid bullets the old fashioned way: by putting something big and strong between you and the shooter. Preferably something that also conceals you.

Cover is one thing.

Concealment is another.

Cover and Concealment is gold.

Almost word for word what William Frisbee wrote on his site - a guide for aspiring writers of military sci-fi.

I'm curious what you'd think of assigning Ashley to train the non-human squadmates in Alliance tactics.


I'd be asking why they needed training in human tactics.

They're going out on missions with Shepard, are they not?

#1007
Br3admax

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Ryzaki wrote...

Oh god David just...what.

Why is it better Liara not know how to fight before meeting Shepard? WHY?

Because Shepard's heroism will bridge the learning gap, fostering a bond of lovebetween them that will one day save a galaxy, in a future not too far away. 

#1008
Xilizhra

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Ryzaki wrote...

Oh god David just...what.

Why is it better Liara not know how to fight before meeting Shepard? WHY?

Because of a plot point that might have worked if Shepard was a more set protagonist, and if the plot we have now was less urgent.

#1009
Ryzaki

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Xilizhra wrote...
Because of a plot point that might have worked if Shepard was a more set protagonist, and if the plot we have now was less urgent.


You mean her sitting on her ass in the ship instead of my Shep risking her life when she can't fight in combat? 

DeinonSlayer wrote...

"Well, I'll tell you...."

He's going to tell HE'S GOING TO TELL
He's going to tell HE'S GOING TO TELL
He's going to tell HE'S GOING TO TELL

*cue Lancelot's dramatic exit*


I hate you guys. I can't breathe.

Br3ad wrote...
Because
Shepard's heroism will bridge the learning gap, fostering a bond of
lovebetween them that will one day save a galaxy, in a future not too
far away. 


LOL

#1010
Br3admax

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David7204 wrote...

If anyone on this forum feels that a character attaining success in combat against an opponent with better 'official' training is stupid and contrived, I don't really know what to tell you except...sorry you despise fiction so much? Because that's overwhelmingly the norm, not the exception across all fiction, and particularly video games. More importantly, that norm exists for a very solid reason.

Looking over at my stack of video games, let's see how many of them follow that exception.

Half Life 2? Nope.
Oblivion? Nope.
Fallout 3? Nope
New Vegas? Nope.
Mirror's Edge? Nope.
Grand Theft Auto 5? Nope.
Far Cry 3? Nope.
Mass Effect? Nope.
Skyrim? Nope.
BioShock? Nope.
Borderlands 1 and 2? Nope.
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2? Yep.

Wow. Quite a record right there.

Harry Potter. Indiana Jones. Star Wars. Lord of the Rings. Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope.

Well this just confirmed that you don't know sh*t about what you are talking about. Again. 

#1011
Ryzaki

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Wait what. How is the Dragon Born and The Courier weak and untrained?(Nevermind that you can headcanon the Dragon Born's background and the Courier has to be able to travel throughout the Wastes and crap alone sos/ he clearly MUST be able to fight or he/she'd be dead). That and my Courier won by having a armor of giant robots that vastly outclasses his enemies. And better weapons and armor. And stims. Lots of stims.

So...wut.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:19 .


#1012
Xilizhra

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You mean her sitting on her ass in the ship instead of my Shep risking her life when she can't fight in combat?

I mean the training sequence. Though I agree her being previously experienced works best here and now.

#1013
Ryzaki

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Xilizhra wrote...

You mean her sitting on her ass in the ship instead of my Shep risking her life when she can't fight in combat?

I mean the training sequence. Though I agree her being previously experienced works best here and now.


You're assuming Shep would waste time training her instead of moving it along and keeping her on the ship where it's safe.

Maybe if she was giving lessons by the rest of the rest of the Normandy Crew that stayed on the ship but I don't see how that'd be very interesting given that she fights using mostly biotics and the only biotics aboard the Normandy are Kaidan, Wrex and potentially Shepard. All of whom can be too busy doing quests.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:16 .


#1014
Cainhurst Crow

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Even if there is a difference between official training and non-official training, which I admit can happen, that doesn't mean no training can beat any training david.

Which is what you're saying, that someone with no training practice or skill can beat someone with any combination of those things.

#1015
Cainhurst Crow

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Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You mean her sitting on her ass in the ship instead of my Shep risking her life when she can't fight in combat?

I mean the training sequence. Though I agree her being previously experienced works best here and now.


You're assuming Shep would waste time training her instead of moving it along and keeping her on the ship where it's safe.

Maybe if she was giving lessons by the rest of the rest of the Normandy Crew that stayed on the ship but I don't see how that'd be very interesting given that she fights using mostly biotics and the only biotics aboard the Normandy are Kaidan, Wrex and potentially Shepard. All of whom can be too busy doing quests.


Are you saying wrex would make a bad sensei?

Outside of that, it sounds insane that the daughter of  a highly influenctial  member of the asari race, whose lived for 100 years, and whose mother has an entire small army of trained commandos, wouldn't have gotten any sort of training before hand.

I can't fathom a person who truely believes someone with that upbringing never got even self-defense training.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:20 .


#1016
Ravensword

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

Even if there is a difference between official training and non-official training, which I admit can happen, that doesn't mean no training can beat any training david.

Which is what you're saying, that someone with no training practice or skill can beat someone with any combination of those things.


Prepare to move the goalpoats, David.

#1017
eyezonlyii

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A couple of notes after catching up:

Haven't read the book, but didn't Gillain Greyson accidentally open a singularity on a bully? I know she was depicted as stronger than normal but still *accidentally*.

My biggest issue with having Ashley suddenly board the ship is this: In ME1 codex, it says Kaidan is in charge of the marine detachment on the Normandy, so who are these other marines that were chosen to be on the ship? why are they there, if some random survivor of a geth attack can so easily replace them?

About Liara- i can headcanon her being above basic in biotic skill, because her mother is one of the most influential matriarchs. I think what hurts the most is the lack of in-ship conversations between teammates. I'm sure if ME1 came out now, you would have Liara, Kaidan and Wrex discussing the differences in their biotics, maybe even referring to some sparring that they've done.

#1018
Ravensword

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You mean her sitting on her ass in the ship instead of my Shep risking her life when she can't fight in combat?

I mean the training sequence. Though I agree her being previously experienced works best here and now.


You're assuming Shep would waste time training her instead of moving it along and keeping her on the ship where it's safe.

Maybe if she was giving lessons by the rest of the rest of the Normandy Crew that stayed on the ship but I don't see how that'd be very interesting given that she fights using mostly biotics and the only biotics aboard the Normandy are Kaidan, Wrex and potentially Shepard. All of whom can be too busy doing quests.


Are you saying wrex would make a bad sensei?


Shepard has more important things to do than be the Mr. Miyagi to Liara's Daniel.

#1019
Ryzaki

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You mean her sitting on her ass in the ship instead of my Shep risking her life when she can't fight in combat?

I mean the training sequence. Though I agree her being previously experienced works best here and now.


You're assuming Shep would waste time training her instead of moving it along and keeping her on the ship where it's safe.

Maybe if she was giving lessons by the rest of the rest of the Normandy Crew that stayed on the ship but I don't see how that'd be very interesting given that she fights using mostly biotics and the only biotics aboard the Normandy are Kaidan, Wrex and potentially Shepard. All of whom can be too busy doing quests.


Are you saying wrex would make a bad sensei?


He'd probably end up headbutting her. :D (and of course the problem then becomes that Wrex is an optional character).

Maybe Kaidan? Seeing Liara and Kaidan have a biotic fight could be fun I suppose.

#1020
Cainhurst Crow

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Ravensword wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You mean her sitting on her ass in the ship instead of my Shep risking her life when she can't fight in combat?

I mean the training sequence. Though I agree her being previously experienced works best here and now.


You're assuming Shep would waste time training her instead of moving it along and keeping her on the ship where it's safe.

Maybe if she was giving lessons by the rest of the rest of the Normandy Crew that stayed on the ship but I don't see how that'd be very interesting given that she fights using mostly biotics and the only biotics aboard the Normandy are Kaidan, Wrex and potentially Shepard. All of whom can be too busy doing quests.


Are you saying wrex would make a bad sensei?


Shepard has more important things to do than be the Mr. Miyagi to Liara's Daniel.


Wrex stayed on the ship most of the time in my playthrough. Garrus and Tali were my picks becasue locks.

#1021
Cainhurst Crow

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Ryzaki wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You mean her sitting on her ass in the ship instead of my Shep risking her life when she can't fight in combat?

I mean the training sequence. Though I agree her being previously experienced works best here and now.


You're assuming Shep would waste time training her instead of moving it along and keeping her on the ship where it's safe.

Maybe if she was giving lessons by the rest of the rest of the Normandy Crew that stayed on the ship but I don't see how that'd be very interesting given that she fights using mostly biotics and the only biotics aboard the Normandy are Kaidan, Wrex and potentially Shepard. All of whom can be too busy doing quests.


Are you saying wrex would make a bad sensei?


He'd probably end up headbutting her. :D (and of course the problem then becomes that Wrex is an optional character).

Maybe Kaidan? Seeing Liara and Kaidan have a biotic fight could be fun I suppose.


I'd make a kickstarter to see that.

#1022
Barquiel

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Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You mean her sitting on her ass in the ship instead of my Shep risking her life when she can't fight in combat?

I mean the training sequence. Though I agree her being previously experienced works best here and now.


You're assuming Shep would waste time training her instead of moving it along and keeping her on the ship where it's safe.

Maybe if she was giving lessons by the rest of the rest of the Normandy Crew that stayed on the ship but I don't see how that'd be very interesting given that she fights using mostly biotics and the only biotics aboard the Normandy are Kaidan, Wrex and potentially Shepard. All of whom can be too busy doing quests.


I would simply do pinnacle station after picking up Liara. It was there she learned military commands (I doubt Kaidan or Wrex could teach her anything new when it comes to biotics), and how to properly use a gun...at least in my headcanon.

#1023
Ryzaki

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

Wrex stayed on the ship most of the time in my playthrough. Garrus and Tali were my picks becasue locks.


You didn't just omni gel everything? So much inventory junk in ME1.

 Barquiel wrote...

I would simply do pinnacle station after picking up Liara. It was there
she learned military commands (I doubt Kaidan or Wrex could teach her
anything new when it comes to biotics), and how to properly use a
gun...at least in my headcanon.


Ah that's good. I prefer her knowing how to fight beforehand though. She was enough of the shy viriginal trope as it was. She didn't need "I need you to protect me/teach me" added on to it.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:24 .


#1024
MassivelyEffective0730

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iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

No Special Forces qualifications, no schools where she's learned skills that might make her stand out, no experience in the field (shore assignments and crap posts), history of being black-listed... I'm not seeing anything that makes her not replaceable by someone else of the same rank (who with the benefit of not being black-listed is much, much more likely to have practical field experience and more diverse skills from attending schools that Ashley's name keeps her out of).

She has commendations for being a good infantry squad leader. And that's about it. Sure, she works hard, but she has nothing I need for this mission (except a vagina). Sure, she got screwed by the alliance when she got black-listed, but in all honesty, the very fact that she's been black-listed means I don't want her. It means that she's missed out on all the other experiences, details, and schools to learn different skils (airborne, air assault, etc. and I mean the ME equivalent as such). She's got nothing that another squared away NCO doesn't have (with that NCO having more experience and useful skills). This isn't an infantry mission. This is an assignment that requires a lot of maverick ideas and unorthodox skills that are extraordinary nature. 

Ashley might be one of the best of the ordinary, but that doesn't cut it when it comes to a matter requiring the extraordinary. I don't hold her on that level. 


My Shepard apparantly disagrees, as he commented that her file showed she was an exemplary soldier who should be serving with the Fleet.  That her talents were wasted on guarding colony worlds.   

She has apparantly trained in various fields (she's zero-g qualified, for example) but hasn't had a chance to put that training to use until joining the Normandy


Let's put it this way:

From my perspective (that I will arrogantly admit is rather well informed) and using the modern military as a setting, she's a junior NCO who has no skills beyond say, Air Assault (and I'm being generous, since we don't know if zero-g training is standard for all alliance military personnel or even just combat arms). Despite having a strong record of good conduct and discipline (which is standard I'd expect of any NCO under me), she has no field experience, no time playing in the sandbox or dirt pitch (depending on where you're deployed), no overseas postings (Germany, Korea, Turkey, etc.) and nothing beyond stateside postings at posts that are secondary installations (Ft. Hunter-Liggett, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Knox, plus assorted NG Camps). 

She's a very hard worker with an exemplary record... which is something any NCO of her rank should have. And those NCO's are also likely to have all the things she doesn't have, like Airborne, Air Assualt, Combatives, Ranger School, NWT, MWT, etc along with deployments in the field. 

Sure, her blacklisting is rather unjust, but feeling bad for her because of it doesn't change my feeling on her abilities and skills. Her blacklisting has prevented her from gaining anything that I need for my mission, thus making her undesirable to me. Plus, her job simply isn't that exceptional. Infantry is bloody hard, but it's also very common. Not many people join the military to file paperwork. People want to do something exciting when they join. 

I'd be able to find an NCO that is much more experienced downrange with much more skill diversity than her with nearly any other NCO of her rank. It's the simple truth that I see. She doesn't have anything that makes her truly standout beyond an abnormally strong drive (which isn't all that abnormal as I'd be expecting that of any NCO under me). I headcanon that due to the rush of the mission and the need for an emotional outlet (which she fulfills), Shepard simply doesn't have time to bother finding someone else who's better suited. He just leaves her on the ship and makes sure she maintains everything for when he needs it.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:23 .


#1025
Ryzaki

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Jeez Mass you're cold. AT least my Shep just shoots her. You gotta break her heart first D: