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[Seboist]

Is David seriously saying that that the favela thugs and regular army russian troops in MW2 have better training than the SAS protagonist you play as? Ahahahaha.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Or lucky.

'Luck' doesn't exist when you're fighting Russian Spetznaz or VDV. They're far too well trained for that. No, you avoid bullets the old fashioned way: by putting something big and strong between you and the shooter. Preferably something that also conceals you.

Cover is one thing.

Concealment is another.

Cover and Concealment is gold.

Almost word for word what William Frisbee wrote on his site - a guide for aspiring writers of military sci-fi.

I'm curious what you'd think of assigning Ashley to train the non-human squadmates in Alliance tactics.

I'd be asking why they needed training in human tactics.

They're going out on missions with Shepard, are they not?

Yeah, but who says my Shepard is going to stick to the human playbook? And if he does, who says he's going to stick to Ashley's playbook? He's a Special Operations Veteran with knowledge of many techniques and skills that Ashley simply will not have access to.

[Cainhurst Crow]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

No Special Forces qualifications, no schools where she's learned skills that might make her stand out, no experience in the field (shore assignments and crap posts), history of being black-listed... I'm not seeing anything that makes her not replaceable by someone else of the same rank (who with the benefit of not being black-listed is much, much more likely to have practical field experience and more diverse skills from attending schools that Ashley's name keeps her out of).

She has commendations for being a good infantry squad leader. And that's about it. Sure, she works hard, but she has nothing I need for this mission (except a vagina). Sure, she got screwed by the alliance when she got black-listed, but in all honesty, the very fact that she's been black-listed means I don't want her. It means that she's missed out on all the other experiences, details, and schools to learn different skils (airborne, air assault, etc. and I mean the ME equivalent as such). She's got nothing that another squared away NCO doesn't have (with that NCO having more experience and useful skills). This isn't an infantry mission. This is an assignment that requires a lot of maverick ideas and unorthodox skills that are extraordinary nature. 

Ashley might be one of the best of the ordinary, but that doesn't cut it when it comes to a matter requiring the extraordinary. I don't hold her on that level. 

My Shepard apparantly disagrees, as he commented that her file showed she was an exemplary soldier who should be serving with the Fleet.  That her talents were wasted on guarding colony worlds.   

She has apparantly trained in various fields (she's zero-g qualified, for example) but hasn't had a chance to put that training to use until joining the Normandy

Let's put it this way:

From my perspective (that I will arrogantly admit is rather well informed) and using the modern military as a setting, she's a junior NCO who has no skills beyond say, Air Assault (and I'm being generous, since we don't know if zero-g training is standard for all alliance military personnel or even just combat arms). Despite having a strong record of good conduct and discipline (which is standard I'd expect of any NCO under me), she has no field experience, no time playing in the sandbox or dirt pitch (depending on where you're deployed), no overseas postings (Germany, Korea, Turkey, etc.) and nothing beyond stateside postings at posts that are secondary installations (Ft. Hunter-Liggett, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Knox, plus assorted NG Camps). 

She's a very hard worker with an exemplary record... which is something any NCO of her rank should have. And those NCO's are also likely to have all the things she doesn't have, like Airborne, Air Assualt, Combatives, Ranger School, NWT, MWT, etc along with deployments in the field. 

Sure, her blacklisting is rather unjust, but feeling bad for her because of it doesn't change my feeling on her abilities and skills. Her blacklisting has prevented her from gaining anything that I need for my mission, thus making her undesirable to me. Plus, her job simply isn't that exceptional. Infantry is bloody hard, but it's also very common. Not many people join the military to file paperwork. People want to do something exciting when they join. 

I'd be able to find an NCO that is much more experienced downrange with much more skill diversity than her with nearly any other NCO of her rank. It's the simple truth that I see. She doesn't have anything that makes her truly standout beyond an abnormally strong drive (which isn't all that abnormal as I'd be expecting that of any NCO under me). I headcanon that due to the rush of the mission and the need for an emotional outlet (which she fulfills), Shepard simply doesn't have time to bother finding someone else who's better suited. He just leaves her on the ship and makes sure she maintains everything for when he needs it.

So your shepard makes sure she knows her place and gets back into the kitchen to make him his sandwiches and a fresh beer?

[DeinonSlayer]

@Massive

Still, Alliance tactics or not, they'd all need to be on the same page, which means training together. A lot.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:29 .

[Ryzaki]

?

What non human tactics does Shep have access to in ME1? Anderson's foray into turian tactics is the exception not the rule. There's nothing to suggest Shep's learned non human tactics (before learning them from Wrex/Garrus/Liara/Samara/Thane and so on). Unless I missed something?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Shepard should have been a robocop imo. Would have answered all the questions of why he gets to be special.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:39 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Seboist wrote...

Is David seriously saying that that the favela thugs and regular army russian troops in MW2 have better training than the SAS protagonist you play as? Ahahahaha.

He's talking about the the missions where you play as the Ranger from the 75th... In which you are still much more trained than the Favela thugs, and roughly on equal terms with the VDV Soldiers (and I say roughly since the Rangers don't have Air and Ass like the Russians do. A Ranger will almost always beat a VDV Para in one-on-one combat).

The 75th is under USASOC, and regularly supports SOCOM Warriors. VDV are badass (not as much as the 173rd of course) but as far as my knowledge on the Russian military goes, they're Heavy Mechanized Airborne units, not Elite Assault Shock Troops.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:34 .

[dreamgazer]

Seboist wrote...

Is David seriously saying that that the favela thugs and regular army russian troops in MW2 have better training than the SAS protagonist you play as? Ahahahaha.

He's said ... a lot of things.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

No Special Forces qualifications, no schools where she's learned skills that might make her stand out, no experience in the field (shore assignments and crap posts), history of being black-listed... I'm not seeing anything that makes her not replaceable by someone else of the same rank (who with the benefit of not being black-listed is much, much more likely to have practical field experience and more diverse skills from attending schools that Ashley's name keeps her out of).

She has commendations for being a good infantry squad leader. And that's about it. Sure, she works hard, but she has nothing I need for this mission (except a vagina). Sure, she got screwed by the alliance when she got black-listed, but in all honesty, the very fact that she's been black-listed means I don't want her. It means that she's missed out on all the other experiences, details, and schools to learn different skils (airborne, air assault, etc. and I mean the ME equivalent as such). She's got nothing that another squared away NCO doesn't have (with that NCO having more experience and useful skills). This isn't an infantry mission. This is an assignment that requires a lot of maverick ideas and unorthodox skills that are extraordinary nature. 

Ashley might be one of the best of the ordinary, but that doesn't cut it when it comes to a matter requiring the extraordinary. I don't hold her on that level. 

My Shepard apparantly disagrees, as he commented that her file showed she was an exemplary soldier who should be serving with the Fleet.  That her talents were wasted on guarding colony worlds.   

She has apparantly trained in various fields (she's zero-g qualified, for example) but hasn't had a chance to put that training to use until joining the Normandy

Let's put it this way:

From my perspective (that I will arrogantly admit is rather well informed) and using the modern military as a setting, she's a junior NCO who has no skills beyond say, Air Assault (and I'm being generous, since we don't know if zero-g training is standard for all alliance military personnel or even just combat arms). Despite having a strong record of good conduct and discipline (which is standard I'd expect of any NCO under me), she has no field experience, no time playing in the sandbox or dirt pitch (depending on where you're deployed), no overseas postings (Germany, Korea, Turkey, etc.) and nothing beyond stateside postings at posts that are secondary installations (Ft. Hunter-Liggett, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Knox, plus assorted NG Camps). 

She's a very hard worker with an exemplary record... which is something any NCO of her rank should have. And those NCO's are also likely to have all the things she doesn't have, like Airborne, Air Assualt, Combatives, Ranger School, NWT, MWT, etc along with deployments in the field. 

Sure, her blacklisting is rather unjust, but feeling bad for her because of it doesn't change my feeling on her abilities and skills. Her blacklisting has prevented her from gaining anything that I need for my mission, thus making her undesirable to me. Plus, her job simply isn't that exceptional. Infantry is bloody hard, but it's also very common. Not many people join the military to file paperwork. People want to do something exciting when they join. 

I'd be able to find an NCO that is much more experienced downrange with much more skill diversity than her with nearly any other NCO of her rank. It's the simple truth that I see. She doesn't have anything that makes her truly standout beyond an abnormally strong drive (which isn't all that abnormal as I'd be expecting that of any NCO under me). I headcanon that due to the rush of the mission and the need for an emotional outlet (which she fulfills), Shepard simply doesn't have time to bother finding someone else who's better suited. He just leaves her on the ship and makes sure she maintains everything for when he needs it.

So your shepard makes sure she knows her place and gets back into the kitchen to make him his sandwiches and a fresh beer?

More or less. 

As I said, Ashley's only real use to my Shepard in ME1 is as an emotional and sexual outlet.

[Ryzaki]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I'd make a kickstarter to see that.

Same.

Shepard should have been a robocop imo. Would have answered all the questions of why he gets to be special.

I always thought Cerberus did it was the answer

[Iakus]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Let's put it this way:

From my perspective (that I will arrogantly admit is rather well informed) and using the modern military as a setting, she's a junior NCO who has no skills beyond say, Air Assault (and I'm being generous, since we don't know if zero-g training is standard for all alliance military personnel or even just combat arms). Despite having a strong record of good conduct and discipline (which is standard I'd expect of any NCO under me), she has no field experience, no time playing in the sandbox or dirt pitch (depending on where you're deployed), no overseas postings (Germany, Korea, Turkey, etc.) and nothing beyond stateside postings at posts that are secondary installations (Ft. Hunter-Liggett, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Knox, plus assorted NG Camps). 

She's a very hard worker with an exemplary record... which is something any NCO of her rank should have. And those NCO's are also likely to have all the things she doesn't have, like Airborne, Air Assualt, Combatives, Ranger School, NWT, MWT, etc along with deployments in the field. 

Sure, her blacklisting is rather unjust, but feeling bad for her because of it doesn't change my feeling on her abilities and skills. Her blacklisting has prevented her from gaining anything that I need for my mission, thus making her undesirable to me. Plus, her job simply isn't that exceptional. Infantry is bloody hard, but it's also very common. Not many people join the military to file paperwork. People want to do something exciting when they join. 

I'd be able to find an NCO that is much more experienced downrange with much more skill diversity than her with nearly any other NCO of her rank. It's the simple truth that I see. She doesn't have anything that makes her truly standout beyond an abnormally strong drive (which isn't all that abnormal as I'd be expecting that of any NCO under me). I headcanon that due to the rush of the mission and the need for an emotional outlet (which she fulfills), Shepard simply doesn't have time to bother finding someone else who's better suited. He just leaves her on the ship and makes sure she maintains everything for when he needs it.

And yet Captain David Anderson, himself an N7 and former Spectre candidate, thought she would make a fine addition to the Normandy crew.  We don't know the details of her files, but it's enough to impress a senior Special Forces officer, despite her blacklisting and lack of experience.

As for Ash's drive, she survived the geth invasion on Eden Prime when her entire unit was wiped out.  She was still alive, and still fighting.   

[eyezonlyii]

changed my mind about my post.

Modifié par eyezonlyii, 15 novembre 2013 - 09:21 .

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

Ashley, Liara, Miranda's teeth....people that love them love them. Same goes for hate.

[Ravensword]

dreamgazer wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Is David seriously saying that that the favela thugs and regular army russian troops in MW2 have better training than the SAS protagonist you play as? Ahahahaha.

He's said ... a lot of things.

He's special.

[eyezonlyii]

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

Ashley, Liara, Miranda's teeth....people that love them love them. Same goes for hate.

Oh no he didn't!

Modifié par eyezonlyii, 15 novembre 2013 - 09:52 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Let's put it this way:

From my perspective (that I will arrogantly admit is rather well informed) and using the modern military as a setting, she's a junior NCO who has no skills beyond say, Air Assault (and I'm being generous, since we don't know if zero-g training is standard for all alliance military personnel or even just combat arms). Despite having a strong record of good conduct and discipline (which is standard I'd expect of any NCO under me), she has no field experience, no time playing in the sandbox or dirt pitch (depending on where you're deployed), no overseas postings (Germany, Korea, Turkey, etc.) and nothing beyond stateside postings at posts that are secondary installations (Ft. Hunter-Liggett, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Knox, plus assorted NG Camps). 

She's a very hard worker with an exemplary record... which is something any NCO of her rank should have. And those NCO's are also likely to have all the things she doesn't have, like Airborne, Air Assualt, Combatives, Ranger School, NWT, MWT, etc along with deployments in the field. 

Sure, her blacklisting is rather unjust, but feeling bad for her because of it doesn't change my feeling on her abilities and skills. Her blacklisting has prevented her from gaining anything that I need for my mission, thus making her undesirable to me. Plus, her job simply isn't that exceptional. Infantry is bloody hard, but it's also very common. Not many people join the military to file paperwork. People want to do something exciting when they join. 

I'd be able to find an NCO that is much more experienced downrange with much more skill diversity than her with nearly any other NCO of her rank. It's the simple truth that I see. She doesn't have anything that makes her truly standout beyond an abnormally strong drive (which isn't all that abnormal as I'd be expecting that of any NCO under me). I headcanon that due to the rush of the mission and the need for an emotional outlet (which she fulfills), Shepard simply doesn't have time to bother finding someone else who's better suited. He just leaves her on the ship and makes sure she maintains everything for when he needs it.

And yet Captain David Anderson, himself an N7 and former Spectre candidate, thought she would make a fine addition to the Normandy crew.  We don't know the details of her files, but it's enough to impress a senior Special Forces officer, despite her blacklisting and lack of experience.

I'm going to simply say that I believe he was in error. A misjudgement, combined with another few misjudgements on my Shepard's part that might have been very costly for the galaxy.

I think he was more admiring of her devotion and sympathized with wanting to give her a better chance. I believe he wanted her to have the chance to prove herself. Something my Shepard verbally disagreed with and criticized to Anderson. He also questioned Ashley's competence during the mission as well, and verbally criticized capability in to Anderson, and to her personally. She made mistakes, and she nearly cost us the entire operation. That isn't very well recieved by my Shepard, and it shouldn't be well received by anyone else.

Anderson is a guy who's meant to be the mentor. I very strongly question his actual capability, looking at his Hollywood-style Tactics. He's portrayed in a rather bipolar light. There are times when he changes his demeanor and his capability of leadership from more of a practical, detached perspective similar to my own, and more of a compassionate, traditional style that is rather inappropriate in a military setting. 

I understand it's part of the game. I'm inflecting from my own, external position of seeing him as a guy who would seem like he's a great leader, but happens to make a lot of very crappy decisions and mistakes that he should not be making.

As for Ash's drive, she survived the geth invasion on Eden Prime when her entire unit was wiped out.  She was still alive, and still fighting.   

More like running. Away. With no rifle. Just a sidearm. Not that I'm judging her for withdrawing, or even retreating.

It was the manner of how she was doing it. She was panicking. She was leaving her back completely open, not even going for cover or trying to put up a defense. She was just running. 

And that's literally my first impression of her.

As I said, Ash has drive. She has will.

And her will is something that not only I'm not that impressed with, I'd expect it from any one of my crew. I judge that everyone else except for Liara has the same kind of drive, and they have the quality and skill to supplant it.

I understand that Ashley wants to prove herself. This simply isn't the mission for her to do it. This is beyond her skill level, and this mission is more important than her, and I have my Shepard reflect as such. I'm not there to give her the opportunity to prove that her family name is worth something. I'm there to stop Saren, and later, the Reapers.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 15 novembre 2013 - 10:09 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Wrex is introduced in Chora's Den, tipping his hand to his target. Gave Fist notice to organize a defense. I'd say Wrex fails harder than any of them.

Garrus is introduced by intervening in a hostage situation with a very well-placed shot. Not sure if his plan accounted for the other two - I don't remember if Michelle takes cover after the first goon drops. The other two could drop her fast without Shepard's intervention. He may well have won the fight going in alone, but he was unlikely to save the hostage.

Tali is introduced fending off an ambush by throwing a grenade and immediately taking cover, shotgun out. Can't remember, but I think she does shoot at the attackers if you take too long. I'd say she handled those three well, but was lucky Shepard's squad was friendly.

Liara crouches on the floor and erects a barrier around herself, remaining motionless until you kill the attackers on Therum. Big reason I have trouble shaking the first impression of "civilian out of her depth."

I hope Wilson didn't have any cybernetics in his head when Miranda shot him which could have been blasted out into the two guys standing behind him...

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 15 novembre 2013 - 11:36 .

[Iakus]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I'm going to simply say that I believe he was in error. A misjudgement, combined with another few misjudgements on my Shepard's part that might have been very costly for the galaxy.

I think he was more admiring of her devotion and sympathized with wanting to give her a better chance. I believe he wanted her to have the chance to prove herself. Something my Shepard verbally disagreed with and criticized to Anderson. He also questioned Ashley's competence during the mission as well, and verbally criticized capability in to Anderson, and to her personally. She made mistakes, and she nearly cost us the entire operation. That isn't very well recieved by my Shepard, and it shouldn't be well received by anyone else.

What mistakes did she make that were so costly? 

Anderson is a guy who's meant to be the mentor. I very strongly question his actual capability, looking at his Hollywood-style Tactics. He's portrayed in a rather bipolar light. There are times when he changes his demeanor and his capability of leadership from more of a practical, detached perspective similar to my own, and more of a compassionate, traditional style that is rather inappropriate in a military setting. 

I understand it's part of the game. I'm inflecting from my own, external position of seeing him as a guy who would seem like he's a great leader, but happens to make a lot of very crappy decisions and mistakes that he should not be making.

Anderson is in teh interesting storytelling presicament of having to be a mentor figure to every Shepard from full paragon to full rnegade and everythin gin between.  Nevertheless he is still an N7 with enough combat medals that, as Joker put it, if you melted them all down he could build a life-sizzed statue f himself.

More like running. Away. With no rifle. Just a sidearm. Not that I'm judging her for withdrawing, or even retreating.

It was the manner of how she was doing it. She was panicking. She was leaving her back completely open, not even going for cover or trying to put up a defense. She was just running. 

She was running for cover.  And she did have her weapon (she pulls it out when she reaches said cover).  And she kept her head enough to take out a couple of geth with her sidearm in her run. Yeah she exposed her back, which is probably not the smartest thing to do.  But she still had her kinetic barriers up, which caught any shots that would have tagged her (you see the ripples)

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Let's put it this way:

From my perspective (that I will arrogantly admit is rather well informed) and using the modern military as a setting, she's a junior NCO who has no skills beyond say, Air Assault (and I'm being generous, since we don't know if zero-g training is standard for all alliance military personnel or even just combat arms). Despite having a strong record of good conduct and discipline (which is standard I'd expect of any NCO under me), she has no field experience, no time playing in the sandbox or dirt pitch (depending on where you're deployed), no overseas postings (Germany, Korea, Turkey, etc.) and nothing beyond stateside postings at posts that are secondary installations (Ft. Hunter-Liggett, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Knox, plus assorted NG Camps). 

She's a very hard worker with an exemplary record... which is something any NCO of her rank should have. And those NCO's are also likely to have all the things she doesn't have, like Airborne, Air Assualt, Combatives, Ranger School, NWT, MWT, etc along with deployments in the field. 

Sure, her blacklisting is rather unjust, but feeling bad for her because of it doesn't change my feeling on her abilities and skills. Her blacklisting has prevented her from gaining anything that I need for my mission, thus making her undesirable to me. Plus, her job simply isn't that exceptional. Infantry is bloody hard, but it's also very common. Not many people join the military to file paperwork. People want to do something exciting when they join. 

I'd be able to find an NCO that is much more experienced downrange with much more skill diversity than her with nearly any other NCO of her rank. It's the simple truth that I see. She doesn't have anything that makes her truly standout beyond an abnormally strong drive (which isn't all that abnormal as I'd be expecting that of any NCO under me). I headcanon that due to the rush of the mission and the need for an emotional outlet (which she fulfills), Shepard simply doesn't have time to bother finding someone else who's better suited. He just leaves her on the ship and makes sure she maintains everything for when he needs it.

And yet Captain David Anderson, himself an N7 and former Spectre candidate, thought she would make a fine addition to the Normandy crew.  We don't know the details of her files, but it's enough to impress a senior Special Forces officer, despite her blacklisting and lack of experience.

I'm going to simply say that I believe he was in error. A misjudgement, combined with another few misjudgements on my Shepard's part that might have been very costly for the galaxy.

I think he was more admiring of her devotion and sympathized with wanting to give her a better chance. I believe he wanted her to have the chance to prove herself. Something my Shepard verbally disagreed with and criticized to Anderson. He also questioned Ashley's competence during the mission as well, and verbally criticized capability in to Anderson, and to her personally. She made mistakes, and she nearly cost us the entire operation. That isn't very well recieved by my Shepard, and it shouldn't be well received by anyone else.

Anderson is a guy who's meant to be the mentor. I very strongly question his actual capability, looking at his Hollywood-style Tactics. He's portrayed in a rather bipolar light. There are times when he changes his demeanor and his capability of leadership from more of a practical, detached perspective similar to my own, and more of a compassionate, traditional style that is rather inappropriate in a military setting. 

I understand it's part of the game. I'm inflecting from my own, external position of seeing him as a guy who would seem like he's a great leader, but happens to make a lot of very crappy decisions and mistakes that he should not be making.

As for Ash's drive, she survived the geth invasion on Eden Prime when her entire unit was wiped out.  She was still alive, and still fighting.   

More like running. Away. With no rifle. Just a sidearm. Not that I'm judging her for withdrawing, or even retreating.

It was the manner of how she was doing it. She was panicking. She was leaving her back completely open, not even going for cover or trying to put up a defense. She was just running. 

And that's literally my first impression of her.

As I said, Ash has drive. She has will.

And her will is something that not only I'm not that impressed with, I'd expect it from any one of my crew. I judge that everyone else except for Liara has the same kind of drive, and they have the quality and skill to supplant it.

I understand that Ashley wants to prove herself. This simply isn't the mission for her to do it. This is beyond her skill level, and this mission is more important than her, and I have my Shepard reflect as such. I'm not there to give her the opportunity to prove that her family name is worth something. I'm there to stop Saren, and later, the Reapers.

You're not getting it.

In ME1 she was not running away. She was running to you. Because.... Heroism.

Ashley was promoted to Lt Cmdr. She had proven herself while you were dead, working for Cerberus, and in prison. You inspired her to work hard, and to be at her best. Because.... Heroism.

You're leading a rag tag band of misfits because.... Heroism.

Instead of using the Krogan as canon fodder and sending them where the resistance was the heaviest and having you slip around back and into the beam, Anderson decided to send you where the resistance was the heaviest. Because.... Heroism.

You die in the end because.... Heroism. <_<

[MassivelyEffective0730]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I'm going to simply say that I believe he was in error. A misjudgement, combined with another few misjudgements on my Shepard's part that might have been very costly for the galaxy.

I think he was more admiring of her devotion and sympathized with wanting to give her a better chance. I believe he wanted her to have the chance to prove herself. Something my Shepard verbally disagreed with and criticized to Anderson. He also questioned Ashley's competence during the mission as well, and verbally criticized capability in to Anderson, and to her personally. She made mistakes, and she nearly cost us the entire operation. That isn't very well recieved by my Shepard, and it shouldn't be well received by anyone else.[/quote]

What mistakes did she make that were so costly? 
[/quote]

For starters, she screwed with the McGuffin. Even if it turned out to be beneficial, it was only because Shepard was in the vacinity to receive it. And it nearly killed him. I believe it would have killed Ashley. And it would have been destroyed anyway. So we would have lost all the information completely while Saren would be 100% free to do as he damn well pleased.

As for her mistakes, they were mostly errors in the situation that I'd be expecting from a recruit in training, in which said recruit would probably be deemed unsuitable for service.

[quote]
Anderson is a guy who's meant to be the mentor. I very strongly question his actual capability, looking at his Hollywood-style Tactics. He's portrayed in a rather bipolar light. There are times when he changes his demeanor and his capability of leadership from more of a practical, detached perspective similar to my own, and more of a compassionate, traditional style that is rather inappropriate in a military setting. 

I understand it's part of the game. I'm inflecting from my own, external position of seeing him as a guy who would seem like he's a great leader, but happens to make a lot of very crappy decisions and mistakes that he should not be making. [/quote]

Anderson is in teh interesting storytelling presicament of having to be a mentor figure to every Shepard from full paragon to full rnegade and everythin gin between.  Nevertheless he is still an N7 with enough combat medals that, as Joker put it, if you melted them all down he could build a life-sizzed statue f himself.[/quote]

That's nice, but that's not what I was getting at. I don't regard him as a suitable mentor figure for my Shepard since despite his informed ability, which I'm not going to rag on, Anderson still doesn't strike me as impressive in his appearances. Maybe it's because I'm so used to how actual military officers operate that it strikes me as so much more of a hollywood style leader and not an actual leader. 

Anderson, and the alliance, pretty much follow the entire trope of Mildly Military, which is fine to an extent, but it reaches a point where it's simply not realistic to me in a way. I still question and criticize his judgement, even if he is N7. 
[quote]
[quote]

More like running. Away. With no rifle. Just a sidearm. Not that I'm judging her for withdrawing, or even retreating.

It was the manner of how she was doing it. She was panicking. She was leaving her back completely open, not even going for cover or trying to put up a defense. She was just running. [/quote]

She was running for cover.  And she did have her weapon (she pulls it out when she reaches said cover).  And she kept her head enough to take out a couple of geth with her sidearm in her run. Yeah she exposed her back, which is probably not the smartest thing to do.  But she still had her kinetic barriers up, which caught any shots that would have tagged her (you see the ripples)

[/quote]

She seemed to be just running. And if she was running for cover, she sure was slow to jump behind some pretty near rocks. All while exposing her back, and presenting a large target, and not taking proper measures to make an organized, hasty, bounding retreat. Yeah, she has barriers, but I'm not going to count on those. Those are for the lucky shots that hit me between movement to cover. 

So yes, I am fully unconfident in Ashley's abilities as shown in that scene.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 15 novembre 2013 - 10:48 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Ashley was promoted to Lt Cmdr. She had proven herself while you were dead, working for Cerberus, and in prison. You inspired her to work hard, and to be at her best. Because.... Heroism.

I see what you're doing, and I am not going to drink that Kool-aid like a certain someone who likes that word. 

As for this quote, I simply do not believe she has earned this rank at all. Period. Nada.

I headcanon that brass used her attachment to Shepard's name (as well as pity because she was his one time physical liaison) to move her forward. 

I simply do not for a second believe she earned her promotion, especially the jump she got in between ME2 and ME3, on her own.

That is what I will chalk up to as the writers not doing research on how military promotions (or the military in general work)

As for misfits, Jack and Grunt really are the only ones who I see as being misfits. Everyone else are independent professionals who I'm uniting under one cause and one team.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 15 novembre 2013 - 10:55 .

[Iakus]

[quote]MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

For starters, she screwed with the McGuffin. Even if it turned out to be beneficial, it was only because Shepard was in the vacinity to receive it. And it nearly killed him. I believe it would have killed Ashley. And it would have been destroyed anyway. So we would have lost all the information completely while Saren would be 100% free to do as he damn well pleased.

As for her mistakes, they were mostly errors in the situation that I'd be expecting from a recruit in training, in which said recruit would probably be deemed unsuitable for service.[/quote]

She didn't screw with the Maguffin, she was simply in the vicinity of it (and in the case of FemSheps, it's Kaidan who gets caught near it.  Is he to blame then?).  There was no way she or anyone else could have forseen this occurence.

You'll have to be more specific with her other mistakes.

[quote]
That's nice, but that's not what I was getting at. I don't regard him as a suitable mentor figure for my Shepard since despite his informed ability, which I'm not going to rag on, Anderson still doesn't strike me as impressive in his appearances. Maybe it's because I'm so used to how actual military officers operate that it strikes me as so much more of a hollywood style leader and not an actual leader. 

Anderson, and the alliance, pretty much follow the entire trope of Mildly Military, which is fine to an extent, but it reaches a point where it's simply not realistic to me in a way. I still question and criticize his judgement, even if he is N7. [/quote]

I can certainly sympathize with that.  I've seen the media screw up things I am knowledgeable in to the point where I'm grinding my teeth. 


[quote]
[quote]

More like running. Away. With no rifle. Just a sidearm. Not that I'm judging her for withdrawing, or even retreating.

It was the manner of how she was doing it. She was panicking. She was leaving her back completely open, not even going for cover or trying to put up a defense. She was just running. [/quote]

She was running for cover.  And she did have her weapon (she pulls it out when she reaches said cover).  And she kept her head enough to take out a couple of geth with her sidearm in her run. Yeah she exposed her back, which is probably not the smartest thing to do.  But she still had her kinetic barriers up, which caught any shots that would have tagged her (you see the ripples)

[/quote]

She seemed to be just running. And if she was running for cover, she sure was slow to jump behind some pretty near rocks. All while exposing her back, and presenting a large target, and not taking proper measures to make an organized, hasty, bounding retreat. Yeah, she has barriers, but I'm not going to count on those. Those are for the lucky shots that hit me between movement to cover. 

So yes, I am fully unconfident in Ashley's abilities as shown in that scene.

[/quote]

Given the same scene showed her spinning about, snapping off several rounds to destroy a pair of geth persuing her, followed by her pulling out an even bigger gun once she's behind cover, the intention was likely to show a determined survivor, rather than a damsel in distress.

Keep in mind, this group thought the Thane/Kai Leng fight was an epic showdown and put Ash in a "Little Blue Dress" to show how much she's matured 

Modifié par iakus, 15 novembre 2013 - 11:28 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

For starters, she screwed with the McGuffin. Even if it turned out to be beneficial, it was only because Shepard was in the vacinity to receive it. And it nearly killed him. I believe it would have killed Ashley. And it would have been destroyed anyway. So we would have lost all the information completely while Saren would be 100% free to do as he damn well pleased.

As for her mistakes, they were mostly errors in the situation that I'd be expecting from a recruit in training, in which said recruit would probably be deemed unsuitable for service.

She didn't screw with the Maguffin, she was simply in the vicinity of it (and in the case of FemSheps, it's Kaidan who gets caught near it.  Is he to blame then?).  There was no way she or anyone else could have forseen this occurence.

You'll have to be more specific with her other mistakes.

I'd wonder when she judged that she needed to break contact with the enemy and egress from the area. I'd wonder what her route choice was, and if there was an opportunity to set up a hasty ambush. The drones might have cut that route off. Also, we don't see what she actually did when she broke contact, but it looks like she's not keeping her back checked. It's hard to do individually, but she needs to be moving in a rearguard manner, though also watching all directions. She's also sprinting. That makes a lot of noise, is difficult to maintain, and shows nothing less than a panic, since 1) she's presenting a larger profile for the enemy to shoot, and 2) she's not using METT-TC and OAKOC (I can explain in the thread, but in layman's terms, it's checking terrain and suitable types of movement through such.). She's not thinking. Whoever said thinking gets you killed in combat obviously was never a leader in combat. She's doing first year ROTC **** that Cadidiots who've never held a rifle before do better than her than. But then again, hollywood tactics for the sake of drama.

Getting into METT-TC:

Mission
Enemy
Time
Terrain and Weather (This is the big one that goes into OAKOC)
-
Troops
Civilian Consideration.

I'm not going to go into a massive rant about the appropriateness of writing an Operations Order for a surprise attack by the Geth, especially on a colony world well within human space that is considered protected enough to not warrant direct protection from a  QRF.

I am going to elaborate on what I saw from Ashley's Terrain considerations.

First, I'm going to define OAKOC

Observations and Fields of Fire
Avenues of Approach
Key Terrain
Obstacles and Movement
Cover and Concealment

Ashley wasn't being very observant with her field of fire being absolutely zero (since she was outright sprinting away with no weapon drawn. She was exposed from all sides in what I can really only describe was a panicked movement, taking fire from the rear despite barriers. Yes, she observered a sturdy covering position and moved to it, but her movement in her approach to cover was all kinds of F*cked up. Running, in the open, straight towards the cover in question, with targets zeroed in directly on you but at enough distance to be able to utilize some kind of bounding withdrawal method and barriers strong enough to be able to decrease your profile and return fire as you 1) reach cover and 2) get a stronger field of fire. She didn't do this. She wasn't thinking, analyzing the terrain (that she should have memorized seeing as she trains in the are constantly) for area's to set up a covered observation point with a position set up a hasty ambush.

As you can see, it's all interconnected: Everything relates to each other, and it's part of any effective combat leaders Operation Plan (even in a hasty surprise assault) within an Operations Zone that she ideally would have had understood and had a plan for as soon as the assault arrived.

She seemed to be just running. And if she was running for cover, she sure was slow to jump behind some pretty near rocks. All while exposing her back, and presenting a large target, and not taking proper measures to make an organized, hasty, bounding retreat. Yeah, she has barriers, but I'm not going to count on those. Those are for the lucky shots that hit me between movement to cover. 

So yes, I am fully unconfident in Ashley's abilities as shown in that scene.

Given the same scene showed her spinning about, snapping off several rounds to destroy a pair of geth persuing her, followed by her pulling out an even bigger gun once she's behind cover, the intention was likely to show a determined survivor, rather than a damsel in distress.

Keep in mind, this group thought the Thane/Kai Leng fight was an epic showdown and put Ash in a "Little Blue Dress" to show how much she's matured 

Yes. To this, all I can say is that, to me, it failed miserably in it's introduction. I won't lie, Ashley's personality later on in the game did indeed cause me to be quite critical and more analytical of her, and what the writers had her do. 

And on that note, it all just goes back to mildly military. And since I don't like Ashley (or Anderson... or anyone in the alliance really), I am thus much more critical of them and my suspension of disbelief is much more strict regarding their military tactics in comparison to other groups and races.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 15 novembre 2013 - 11:49 .

[Iakus]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Yes. To this, all I can say is that, to me, it failed miserably in it's introduction. I won't lie, Ashley's personality later on in the game did indeed cause me to be quite critical and more analytical of her, and what the writers had her do. 

And on that note, it all just goes back to mildly military. And since I don't like Ashley (or Anderson... or anyone in the alliance really), I am thus much more critical of them and my suspension of disbelief is much more strict regarding their military tactics in comparison to other groups and races.

Well, as I said, I can certainly sympathize that they screwed up the military setting for you.  I can see how that could strain your suspension of disbelief. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Ashley was promoted to Lt Cmdr. She had proven herself while you were dead, working for Cerberus, and in prison. You inspired her to work hard, and to be at her best. Because.... Heroism.

I see what you're doing, and I am not going to drink that Kool-aid like a certain someone who likes that word. 

As for this quote, I simply do not believe she has earned this rank at all. Period. Nada.

I headcanon that brass used her attachment to Shepard's name (as well as pity because she was his one time physical liaison) to move her forward. 

I simply do not for a second believe she earned her promotion, especially the jump she got in between ME2 and ME3, on her own.

That is what I will chalk up to as the writers not doing research on how military promotions (or the military in general work)

As for misfits, Jack and Grunt really are the only ones who I see as being misfits. Everyone else are independent professionals who I'm uniting under one cause and one team.

Awww come on, can't you tell sarcasm on this board anymore?

Williams might have been promoted to Operations Chief if the promotions worked like the real military. Hell, I know enough people on active duty.

Don't get me going on the way they did the ranks. That was just so you'd kill off Kaidan or to make sure you'd send the VS packing to Hackett because femShep couldn't have any men. They either outranked her, cheated on her, died, or were pointy. FemShep's love had to be Liara or Samantha. This is a very sore spot and will not be forgotten. ... I guess because.... heroism.

You do realize I troll here regularly.  The story has so many holes in it, that it's difficult not to fall into them.