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[silverexile17s]

General TSAR wrote...

ME1 Ashley is not a racist, she's a realist.

Other species will sacrifice the human race for their own nefarious purposes but unfortunately a lot of people just thought she was racist. It also didn't help that she demonstrated a belief in a higher power which caused the oh so predictable reactions.

Their's a difference between being a realist and being a traditionalist. A realist accepts when things and circumstances change. A traditionalist is someone who's views don't change from the common belief. Ash is like that in the worst way possible. Views like Ash's are why no one in this galaxy trusts each-other to begin with - She talks about "the bear and the dog" without realizing that it applies for every race, not just humans.

[silverexile17s]

RZIBARA wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

The actually racist alien characters also get a free pass on their bigotry.

Pretty much.

Unlike Ashley Javik actually is a racist, yet Javik doesn't get half the flak Ashley does.

Um.... just to note, Javik does say he actually likes Ashley's demenior.
Let that sink in, please.

did you want to romance wrex?

Did you?
My point here is that Wrex and Javik both supported Ashley's viewpoints. That put's her on the same page as them.
Just pointing that little overlooked factoid out.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 novembre 2013 - 04:47 .

[Ryzaki]

Necanor wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Ashley sucks. But not as much as Suit Rat Tali Vas Ineedaparachute.

One of the few bright spots of ME3's "choices" and character interactions is I can or let Garrus, bust a cap in Ash. And also get rid of annoying Suit Rat Tali.

Of course this is all subjective.

But Ash sucks. Almost has hard as Tali, but not quite. But close.

It's funny how in the last couple weeks you've switched from "meh, Tali and the Quarians" to "stupid evil suit rats". One too many Geth-Quarian debates, eh?

Heh happened to me too. I was meh but goddamned geth/quarian debates peeved me off.

And yeah Ashley is an annoyance as far as I'm concerned. Thank ME1 for Virmire. She was aggravating enough in ME1. Then again it's somewhat because I played a male Shep and she wouldn't stop ninjaing me til I figured out that "none of your business" trick. The jealous remarks towards Liara didn't do her any favors (yes I know she had a good reason to distrust Liara at first she should've had enough sense to be subtle about it given Liara had done nothing to warrant suspicion other than be related to the wrong person. Something Ashley off all people should have sympathized with). Eden Prime put her firmly in the "god why is she here?" category for me and it kept on rolling.

I still remain boggled why you can't kick her ass off the ship the second Udina puts you in charge. Maker knows I would've if I could've. She's a low ranked grunt with no vital information on Saren and no valuable or rare skills and her attitude grated like nails against a chalkboard to my Sheps.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 novembre 2013 - 04:53 .

[silverexile17s]

J. Reezy wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

The actually racist alien characters also get a free pass on their bigotry.

Pretty much.

Unlike Ashley Javik actually is a racist, yet Javik doesn't get half the flak Ashley does.

Um.... just to note, Javik does say he actually likes Ashley's demenior.
Let that sink in, please.

Let something that proves nothing sink in? Okay....

No - let something that proves that Ashley is supported by the "racist aliens" sink in.

[silverexile17s]

RZIBARA wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

RZIBARA wrote...

Why doesnt any hate the krogan characters and how racist they are?

oh yeah! bcz ther koolz!

"So your people were infected with a genetic mutation? An infection that makes only a few in a thousand children survive birth? And I suppose it's destroying your entire species?"

"I don't expect you to understand, but don't compare humanity's fate with the krogan."

Wrex's words are the best description here -- after what happened, they've got justification to be bitter. Angry at everyone for either giving them the genophage or letting them be given the genophage. Hell, in Wrex's case, he's angry with the krogan too for bringing in down on themselves with the Krogan Rebellions.

Ashley has a reason to not trust aliens, maybe if you actually talked to her youd know.

Your argument is invalid

So do the krogan. You know, since krogan are't allowed on the Presidium (unless accompinied by high-level people like a Spectre/Spectre canidate). And since krogan are steriotyped by everyone in the entire galaxy as being bloodthirsty warmongers. So, yeah, the krogan have a reason not to trust other races, since no one trusts them - "maybe if you actually talked to him you'd know."

Sorry, but your arguement is invalid.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 novembre 2013 - 04:50 .

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
...
3) And yet, Kaiden is willing to accept his mistakes and move on, rather then just try to ignore it. He accepts that you had justification for leaving him if you started a new relationship. He admits that he reacted badly on Horizon and that it was a mistake to not trust you. Ashley never once confronts the fact that she screwed up, making excuses. Kaiden ismature enough to be willing to take repsoncibility for his mistake, while Ashley can't swallow her pride and face up to what happened on Horizon.
...

Ashley apologies for her reaction on Horizon in the e-mail she sent.

Again, that's only if you romanced her. With Kaiden, you don't have to romance him to have him fess up to having overreacted on Horizon. That e-mail is invalid because it doesn't excuse how she acts if she isn't romanced. Kaiden apologizes and owns up to his mistakes regardless of if you romancd him or not. Ashley is solely dependant on if you romanced her.

Again, point to Kaiden in my book -- when he makes a mistake, he owns up to it.

[silverexile17s]

RZIBARA wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

The actually racist alien characters also get a free pass on their bigotry.

Pretty much.

Unlike Ashley Javik actually is a racist, yet Javik doesn't get half the flak Ashley does.

Um.... just to note, Javik does say he actually likes Ashley's demenior.
Let that sink in, please.

Let something that proves nothing sink in? Okay....

he doesnt actually have a solid argument, so he needs to say something

You mean lay it out like:
She is supported by the "racist" aliens, and thus is on the same page as them, making the idea of her being "innocent" compared to them completely false?

How's that?:innocent:

[Obadiah]

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
...
3) And yet, Kaiden is willing to accept his mistakes and move on, rather then just try to ignore it. He accepts that you had justification for leaving him if you started a new relationship. He admits that he reacted badly on Horizon and that it was a mistake to not trust you. Ashley never once confronts the fact that she screwed up, making excuses. Kaiden ismature enough to be willing to take repsoncibility for his mistake, while Ashley can't swallow her pride and face up to what happened on Horizon.
...

Ashley apologies for her reaction on Horizon in the e-mail she sent.

Again, that's only if you romanced her. With Kaiden, you don't have to romance him to have him fess up to having overreacted on Horizon. That e-mail is invalid because it doesn't excuse how she acts if she isn't romanced. Kaiden apologizes and owns up to his mistakes regardless of if you romancd him or not. Ashley is solely dependant on if you romanced her.

Again, point to Kaiden in my book -- when he makes a mistake, he owns up to it.

Wait, she needs an "excuse" when unromanced? She's supposed to apologise for not trusting Shep when he's resurrected from the dead by a terrorist organization that they fought against in the previous game? That's just silly. Her reaction was perfectly reasonable, if not welcome. I'd only expect a apology if she was romanced. Otherwise its water under the bridge.

Modifié par Obadiah, 10 novembre 2013 - 05:04 .

[silverexile17s]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

It's BSN double standards at work, true.

Wrex doesn't trust turians? That's okay, he's a bro!
Ashley is suspicious of turians? She must be a horrible racist!

Javik wants to kill all synthetics and throw Legion out the airlock? Hilarious!
Gerrel wants to do the same thing? Punch that racist asshole!

ME2 Mordin makes no apologies for the genophage? That's all right, he's cool!
Dalatrass doesn't want you to cure it? What a heartless bitch!

You're completely missing the point, dude. IDK if you noticed, but Wrex's views changes. He became more accepting of aliens, and attributed those changes to the Normandy crew. Wrex also was alive during the Krogan Rebellions, so he's got 1,000+ years of context for his bitterness, so I daresay he's a bit entitled to be a judgemental grump. But the bottom line is that his views did indeed change. He does trust turians -- hell, he trusts them more then his own damn race.
IDK of you remember, but in ME1, Ashley admits that her distrust of turians is because she mostly blames them for her grandfather's court-martial and the blacklisting of her family. Last I chekced, that was a biased reason -- Shepard even calls her out on it, saying she can't blame the turians for how the Alliance scapegoated her grandfather for his surrender of Shanxi.

Dude, look me in the eye and tell me any of Javik's suggestions would appeal to a non-sociopathic person. It's not even a debate.
So far, the only thing you and I agree on is the mis-treatment of Han'Gerrel's image.

[Obadiah]

silverexile17s wrote...

RZIBARA wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

The actually racist alien characters also get a free pass on their bigotry.

Pretty much.

Unlike Ashley Javik actually is a racist, yet Javik doesn't get half the flak Ashley does.

Um.... just to note, Javik does say he actually likes Ashley's demenior.
Let that sink in, please.

Let something that proves nothing sink in? Okay....

he doesnt actually have a solid argument, so he needs to say something

You mean lay it out like:
She is supported by the "racist" aliens, and thus is on the same page as them, making the idea of her being "innocent" compared to them completely false?

How's that?:innocent:

Would make about as much sense as: Shep is supported by terorists and thus on the same page with them?

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
...
3) And yet, Kaiden is willing to accept his mistakes and move on, rather then just try to ignore it. He accepts that you had justification for leaving him if you started a new relationship. He admits that he reacted badly on Horizon and that it was a mistake to not trust you. Ashley never once confronts the fact that she screwed up, making excuses. Kaiden ismature enough to be willing to take repsoncibility for his mistake, while Ashley can't swallow her pride and face up to what happened on Horizon.
...

Ashley apologies for her reaction on Horizon in the e-mail she sent.

Again, that's only if you romanced her. With Kaiden, you don't have to romance him to have him fess up to having overreacted on Horizon. That e-mail is invalid because it doesn't excuse how she acts if she isn't romanced. Kaiden apologizes and owns up to his mistakes regardless of if you romancd him or not. Ashley is solely dependant on if you romanced her.

Again, point to Kaiden in my book -- when he makes a mistake, he owns up to it.

Wait, she needs an "excuse" when unromanced? She's supposed to apologise for not trusting Shep when he's resurrected from the dead by a terrorist organization that they fought against in the previous game? That's just silly. Her reaction was perfectly reasonable, if not welcome. I'd only expect a apology if she was romanced. Otherwise its water under the bridge.

Kaiden did.  Ashley refused to admit that she might be even the slightest bit in the wrong -- she turned her heal on you when she was surrounded by proof that Shepard was right. But apperantly, looking back in hindsight at the colony full of dead Collectors and the husks they were using as shock troopers wasn't enough evidence to consider she overreacted and misjudged Shepard. I mean, it was for Kaiden.
Seriously, I'd think that when you turn your back on the person who saved your life, while surrounded by evidence that they're telling the truth, and call them a Traitor to their face, the logical thing to do is apologize. Not make up excuses. Kaiden did the mature thing -- he owned up to his mistakes. Ashley just couldn't swallow her pride and admit that she was wrong about Shepard.

[Xilizhra]

Dude, look me in the eye and tell me any of Javik's suggestions would appeal to a non-sociopathic person. It's not even a debate.
So far, the only thing you and I agree on is the mis-treatment of Han'Gerrel's image.

Gerrel's a dick either way, really.

[David7204]

I don't take the support of Javik seriously at all.

I would suggest nobody else do so either.

Just something to laugh off.

Modifié par David7204, 10 novembre 2013 - 05:12 .

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

RZIBARA wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

The actually racist alien characters also get a free pass on their bigotry.

Pretty much.

Unlike Ashley Javik actually is a racist, yet Javik doesn't get half the flak Ashley does.

Um.... just to note, Javik does say he actually likes Ashley's demenior.
Let that sink in, please.

Let something that proves nothing sink in? Okay....

he doesnt actually have a solid argument, so he needs to say something

You mean lay it out like:
She is supported by the "racist" aliens, and thus is on the same page as them, making the idea of her being "innocent" compared to them completely false?

How's that?:innocent:

Would make about as much sense as: Shep is supported by terorists and thus on the same page with them?

Well, when faced with:
Entire colony filled with their dead bodies, witness testimonies, and the dead Reaper-imported Husks they used as shock troops, plus verification from Garrus, and later on Tali, and likely Liara too.
Then yes, it makes perfect damn sense.

[Made Nightwing]

Kaidan, as much as I love the guy, is a bit of a ****.

And Shepard was working with terrorists. Terrorists, dude. Y'know? The type that make death camps for biotic kids, kill Alliance admirals, and generally make life miserable for the rest of the galaxy? Hardly a compelling argument.

Also, where does Javik say he likes Ashley's attitude on life? Just want to get a quote for that, and not, y'know, have made up quotes submitted as evidence.

[silverexile17s]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dude, look me in the eye and tell me any of Javik's suggestions would appeal to a non-sociopathic person. It's not even a debate.
So far, the only thing you and I agree on is the mis-treatment of Han'Gerrel's image.

Gerrel's a dick either way, really.

Gerrel acts that way because his entire race is at stake. 
I mean, name me one single faction leader in all of ME that didn't act like a dick in the Reaper War? Why?
Because the future of their entire respective races were at stake. Gerrel is as justified in putting his people first as Wrex and Victus were.

[Zazzerka]

BBcode is a privilege, not a right.

[Made Nightwing]

@Silverexile. And Shepard's support enables them to get their hands on the same tech that allows those terrorists to recruit, kidnap and implant thousands upon thousands of innocent people. Well done, Shepard, saved a couple of thousand colonists and prevented the Reapers from making ONE extra Reaper, but handed those same colonists over to the Reaper's favourite fifth column.

[silverexile17s]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Kaidan, as much as I love the guy, is a bit of a ****.

And Shepard was working with terrorists. Terrorists, dude. Y'know? The type that make death camps for biotic kids, kill Alliance admirals, and generally make life miserable for the rest of the galaxy? Hardly a compelling argument.

Also, where does Javik say he likes Ashley's attitude on life? Just want to get a quote for that, and not, y'know, have made up quotes submitted as evidence.

But Kaiden admits that he was an ass on Horizon. He fully accepts and apologized for how he overreacted and that he should have trusted Shepard -- also, the evidence on Horizon: Many, many dead Collectors, Husks, and survivor testimonies that prove Shepard was on the level. At leats Kaiden upon reflection admits that he was wrong. Ash won't.

It's a random comment on the Normandy after the Citadel Coup. Javik also notes in the Citadel DLC during the crew party that she's a fierce soldier.

[wolfhowwl]

Han Shot First wrote...

osbornep wrote...

Necanor wrote...

The official stat sheet for ME3 is utter bogus and proves next to nothing. It's impossible to argue which character is more popular and debating it is pointless.

On the basis of what evidence do you claim this? Did someone show that the data came from an unreliable source, or was collected in an improper way?

Neither of those things happened.

BSNers hand wave Bioware's statistics when they don't agree with their viewpoints. The truth of the matter, regardless of whether or not some BSNers want to admit it, is that Bioware has a better idea of which characters were more popular than those fans do. The devs have actual have in game statistics whereas those fans just have unsupported opinions.

Pretty much this. The last time they came up in a thread, it was pretty clear some people didn't like what they saw.

Anyways its a better judge of how things played out than any of the polls or endless debates here.

Going by noise on the Internet you would never guess that femshep was played by such a small minority.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 10 novembre 2013 - 05:24 .

[P. Domi]

Many humans resent turians because of the first Contact War. At the same time, many turians resent humans because of the First contact War. It's in the Codex. And then you have grudges and conflicts between alien species that date back way before the humans activated the Charon relay. I.e: the rachni wars and the krogan rebellions.

There's an analogy to the grudges held by many people from the Cold War era in the first page of this thread, but there are plenty of conflicts in history that remain in the back of many people's minds, you don't just suddenly forget about them when living in a time of 'peace', and I think the writers wanted that concept to be pervasively expanded throughout the trilogy.

Modifié par pablodomi, 10 novembre 2013 - 05:23 .

[silverexile17s]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Silverexile. And Shepard's support enables them to get their hands on the same tech that allows those terrorists to recruit, kidnap and implant thousands upon thousands of innocent people. Well done, Shepard, saved a couple of thousand colonists and prevented the Reapers from making ONE extra Reaper, but handed those same colonists over to the Reaper's favourite fifth column.

According to the events of the book "Mass Effect: Retribution," Cerberus was in possession of Reaper-implantation tech long before the Suicide Mission.
So......yeah.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 novembre 2013 - 05:20 .

[Made Nightwing]

Quite frankly, Shepard did more for Cerberus in ME2 than he did for the rest of the galaxy. Saved a little bit of humanity, sent a lot more aliens to their graves by enabling them to become a military powerhouse.

Oh, Javik thinks Ashley's a fierce soldier. And the relevance of that to Ashley being a racist is...? (Let me put it this way, I think my section commander is an absolute badass. So he's a racist?)

[Made Nightwing]

False. Retribution is set after the events of ME2. They leave it nebulous as to how they recovered the tech (whether from the intact base or a destroyed one), but they got it after the SM.

Modifié par Made Nightwing, 10 novembre 2013 - 05:22 .

[Ryzaki]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

osbornep wrote...

Necanor wrote...

The official stat sheet for ME3 is utter bogus and proves next to nothing. It's impossible to argue which character is more popular and debating it is pointless.

On the basis of what evidence do you claim this? Did someone show that the data came from an unreliable source, or was collected in an improper way?

Neither of those things happened.

BSNers hand wave Bioware's statistics when they don't agree with their viewpoints. The truth of the matter, regardless of whether or not some BSNers want to admit it, is that Bioware has a better idea of which characters were more popular than those fans do. The devs have actual have in game statistics whereas those fans just have unsupported opinions.

Pretty much this.

Anyways its a better judge of how things played out than any of the polls or endless debates here.

Going by noise on the Internet you would never guess that femshep was played by such a small minority.

?

Isn't FemShep almost 20% of players? That's not that small of a number considering there's around a million + ME players (Me guessing).