1121 réponses à ce sujet

[silverexile17s]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Quite frankly, Shepard did more for Cerberus in ME2 than he did for the rest of the galaxy. Saved a little bit of humanity, sent a lot more aliens to their graves by enabling them to become a military powerhouse.

Oh, Javik thinks Ashley's a fierce soldier. And the relevance of that to Ashley being a racist is...? (Let me put it this way, I think my section commander is an absolute badass. So he's a racist?)

Wrong. That's only if he want's to. It can easily go either way -- Shepard can make Project Overlord fall completely through. And IDK if you remember, but EDI says that it cost Cerberus the majority of all their resources to revive Shepard and rebuild the Normandy. They were banking on the capture of the Collector homeworld to re-coop the costs -- which you can deny them.
So, no -- weather or not Shepard does more for Cerberus is dependant on your choices. And FYI, according to "Mass Effect: Retribution,"  Cerberus had Reaper-Implantation tech long before the Suicide Mission. Hell, it's even speculated that Project Lazarus was created by studying and trying to replicate husk-reanimation tech.

Because she and Javik share beliefs in regards to synthetics and to how they view other races -- as the means to defeat Reapers. Allies without attachment or trust.

[Xilizhra]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Quite frankly, Shepard did more for Cerberus in ME2 than he did for the rest of the galaxy. Saved a little bit of humanity, sent a lot more aliens to their graves by enabling them to become a military powerhouse.

Oh, Javik thinks Ashley's a fierce soldier. And the relevance of that to Ashley being a racist is...? (Let me put it this way, I think my section commander is an absolute badass. So he's a racist?)

Shepard scuttled the original human Reaper and stopped the Arrival, destroying the Reapers' omnidirectional long-distance mass relay. I think enough was done for the galaxy as a whole.

[Seboist]

Ryzaki wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

osbornep wrote...

Necanor wrote...

The official stat sheet for ME3 is utter bogus and proves next to nothing. It's impossible to argue which character is more popular and debating it is pointless.

On the basis of what evidence do you claim this? Did someone show that the data came from an unreliable source, or was collected in an improper way?

Neither of those things happened.

BSNers hand wave Bioware's statistics when they don't agree with their viewpoints. The truth of the matter, regardless of whether or not some BSNers want to admit it, is that Bioware has a better idea of which characters were more popular than those fans do. The devs have actual have in game statistics whereas those fans just have unsupported opinions.

Pretty much this.

Anyways its a better judge of how things played out than any of the polls or endless debates here.

Going by noise on the Internet you would never guess that femshep was played by such a small minority.

?

Isn't FemShep almost 20% of players? That's not that small of a number considering there's around a million + ME players (Me guessing).

Played by 18%  to be precise.

And it's a small number compared to what the very vocal and entitled femshep base on the BSN would like everyone to believe.

[P. Domi]

Made Nightwing wrote...

False. Retribution is set after the events of ME2. They leave it nebulous as to how they recovered the tech (whether from the intact base or a destroyed one), but they got it after the SM.

This is correct, and I can offer textual proof if necessary. Grayson was implanted after the events in ME 2 and the suicide mission. Drew Karpyshyn leaves the opening chapters in the novel vague enough for the reader not to assume the Collectors base was either preserved or destroyed, I think he simply uses the word "salvaged", and they transported some technology to some secret laboratories.

As for Javik, he approves Shepard's relationship with her (which he does with whomever is your LI, as far as I know), he doesn't comment anything on her political or religious views. I'll look up the exact quote.

Modifié par pablodomi, 10 novembre 2013 - 05:51 .

[Xilizhra]

And it's a small number compared to what the very vocal and entitled femshep base on the BSN would like everyone to believe.

Entitled to what, precisely?

[silverexile17s]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

osbornep wrote...

Necanor wrote...

The official stat sheet for ME3 is utter bogus and proves next to nothing. It's impossible to argue which character is more popular and debating it is pointless.

On the basis of what evidence do you claim this? Did someone show that the data came from an unreliable source, or was collected in an improper way?

Neither of those things happened.

BSNers hand wave Bioware's statistics when they don't agree with their viewpoints. The truth of the matter, regardless of whether or not some BSNers want to admit it, is that Bioware has a better idea of which characters were more popular than those fans do. The devs have actual have in game statistics whereas those fans just have unsupported opinions.

Pretty much this. The last time they came up in a thread, it was pretty clear some people didn't like what they saw.

Anyways its a better judge of how things played out than any of the polls or endless debates here.

Going by noise on the Internet you would never guess that femshep was played by such a small minority.

You mean the one chosen by people that only played ME3? Because that original statsistic also showed that a majority of the players at that time had Wreve as krogan leader, implying most of those voters didn't even play ME1.

Really should take that into account.

[Ryzaki]

Seboist wrote...

Played by 18%  to be precise.

And it's a small number compared to what the very vocal and entitled femshep base on the BSN would like everyone to believe.

To be fair these forums period are a vocal entitled minority who mostly take up a smaller faction of players (for one I'm pretty sure most of BSN has finished the game to the ending, played more than once, imported characters from ME1 and ME2, among other things). So it's not really surprising that femShep players have a louder voice here. Most of the fringe elements do

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Played by 18%  to be precise.

And it's a small number compared to what the very vocal and entitled femshep base on the BSN would like everyone to believe.

To be fair these forums period are a vocal entitled minority who mostly take up a smaller faction of players (for one I'm pretty sure most of BSN has finished the game to the ending, played more than once, imported characters from ME1 and ME2, among other things). So it's not really surprising that femShep players have a louder voice here. Most of the fringe elements do

Ashley fans appear to be a fringe element too 

[Made Nightwing]

silverexile17s wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Quite frankly, Shepard did more for Cerberus in ME2 than he did for the rest of the galaxy. Saved a little bit of humanity, sent a lot more aliens to their graves by enabling them to become a military powerhouse.

Oh, Javik thinks Ashley's a fierce soldier. And the relevance of that to Ashley being a racist is...? (Let me put it this way, I think my section commander is an absolute badass. So he's a racist?)

Wrong. That's only if he want's to. It can easily go either way -- Shepard can make Project Overlord fall completely through. And IDK if you remember, but EDI says that it cost Cerberus the majority of all their resources to revive Shepard and rebuild the Normandy. They were banking on the capture of the Collector homeworld to re-coop the costs -- which you can deny them.
So, no -- weather or not Shepard does more for Cerberus is dependant on your choices. And FYI, according to "Mass Effect: Retribution,"  Cerberus had Reaper-Implantation tech long before the Suicide Mission. Hell, it's even speculated that Project Lazarus was created by studying and trying to replicate husk-reanimation tech.

Because she and Javik share beliefs in regards to synthetics and to how they view other races -- as the means to defeat Reapers. Allies without attachment or trust.

Source on that one, please.

Also, let's look at the effects, would we? Cerberus, whether you destroy the base or not, is a military powerhouse and major villain. So destroying the base did bugger all, didn't it?

But they did not have anywhere near the samples they needed, nor the type of tech to directly implant it. That's like saying 'Saddam Hussein already had chemical weapons when Iraq fought Iran. Therefore it wasn't bad that the USA sold them thousands more.'

Right, so Ashley wants to eat salarian liver and establish a mighty empire with humans on top?

[Obadiah]

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
...
3) And yet, Kaiden is willing to accept his mistakes and move on, rather then just try to ignore it. He accepts that you had justification for leaving him if you started a new relationship. He admits that he reacted badly on Horizon and that it was a mistake to not trust you. Ashley never once confronts the fact that she screwed up, making excuses. Kaiden ismature enough to be willing to take repsoncibility for his mistake, while Ashley can't swallow her pride and face up to what happened on Horizon.
...

Ashley apologies for her reaction on Horizon in the e-mail she sent.

Again, that's only if you romanced her. With Kaiden, you don't have to romance him to have him fess up to having overreacted on Horizon. That e-mail is invalid because it doesn't excuse how she acts if she isn't romanced. Kaiden apologizes and owns up to his mistakes regardless of if you romancd him or not. Ashley is solely dependant on if you romanced her.

Again, point to Kaiden in my book -- when he makes a mistake, he owns up to it.

Wait, she needs an "excuse" when unromanced? She's supposed to apologise for not trusting Shep when he's resurrected from the dead by a terrorist organization that they fought against in the previous game? That's just silly. Her reaction was perfectly reasonable, if not welcome. I'd only expect a apology if she was romanced. Otherwise its water under the bridge.

Kaiden did.  Ashley refused to admit that she might be even the slightest bit in the wrong -- she turned her heal on you when she was surrounded by proof that Shepard was right. But apperantly, looking back in hindsight at the colony full of dead Collectors and the husks they were using as shock troopers wasn't enough evidence to consider she overreacted and misjudged Shepard. I mean, it was for Kaiden.
Seriously, I'd think that when you turn your back on the person who saved your life, while surrounded by evidence that they're telling the truth, and call them a Traitor to their face, the logical thing to do is apologize. Not make up excuses. Kaiden did the mature thing -- he owned up to his mistakes. Ashley just couldn't swallow her pride and admit that she was wrong about Shepard.

The only evidence on Horizon is that Shep saved Ashley's and half the colonists' lives. That's not evidence that Shepard can be trusted. Besides, she was right. Cerberus leaked information to manipulate the Alliance into planting her or Kaiden out there to attract to Collectors to the colony so Shepard could further his investigation. Cerberus was partially responsible for the attack.

Also, could you be more specific on the "excuses" Ashley made? I'm pretty sure if she talked about it at all she just gave a reason why she acted as she did.

Modifié par Obadiah, 10 novembre 2013 - 05:53 .

[silverexile17s]

Made Nightwing wrote...

False. Retribution is set after the events of ME2. They leave it nebulous as to how they recovered the tech (whether from the intact base or a destroyed one), but they got it after the SM.

False. Retribution takes place near the end-game (the post Suicide Mission where Arrival cannocally takes place). And again, the tech could have as easily come from dead collectors, or the Derilict Reaper.

[Xilizhra]

Also, let's look at the effects, would we? Cerberus, whether you destroy the base or not, is a military powerhouse and major villain. So destroying the base did bugger all, didn't it?

Cerberus, while dangerous, is a minor threat compared to the Reapers, and Shepard destroyed what might have become a new capital ship soon enough, in addition to heavily damaging the manpower of the Collectors. Plus, the whole Arrival thing.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 10 novembre 2013 - 05:34 .

[silverexile17s]

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Played by 18%  to be precise.

And it's a small number compared to what the very vocal and entitled femshep base on the BSN would like everyone to believe.

To be fair these forums period are a vocal entitled minority who mostly take up a smaller faction of players (for one I'm pretty sure most of BSN has finished the game to the ending, played more than once, imported characters from ME1 and ME2, among other things). So it's not really surprising that femShep players have a louder voice here. Most of the fringe elements do

Ashley fans appear to be a fringe element too 

Wrong, IDK if you know this, but the BSN tends to represent the core of the series fans -- the die-hards that stayed around through everything, even after the BS original endings of ME3.
Try taking everything into account for once, will you?

[Iakus]

silverexile17s wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Played by 18%  to be precise.

And it's a small number compared to what the very vocal and entitled femshep base on the BSN would like everyone to believe.

To be fair these forums period are a vocal entitled minority who mostly take up a smaller faction of players (for one I'm pretty sure most of BSN has finished the game to the ending, played more than once, imported characters from ME1 and ME2, among other things). So it's not really surprising that femShep players have a louder voice here. Most of the fringe elements do

Ashley fans appear to be a fringe element too 

Wrong, IDK if you know this, but the BSN tends to represent the core of the series fans -- the die-hards that stayed around through everything, even after the BS original endings of ME3.
Try taking everything into account for once, will you?

Are you by any chance related to txgoldrush?

[Made Nightwing]

silverexile17s wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

False. Retribution is set after the events of ME2. They leave it nebulous as to how they recovered the tech (whether from the intact base or a destroyed one), but they got it after the SM.

False. Retribution takes place near the end-game (the post Suicide Mission where Arrival cannocally takes place). And again, the tech could have as easily come from dead collectors, or the Derilict Reaper.

False. The tech came from the Collector Base, destroyed or otherwise. Collectors dissolved after they died, and in any case, Shepard only fought them once where Cerberus could get there hands on them, Horizon. Cerberus sent a team onboard the Derelict Reaper, but never got anything off it. If they had, they would have gotten the IFF off. And since the DR was then crushed in the gravity well, they weren't getting anything more from it.

There's a hole in your argument. The Reaper corpse from the base can be found in Cerberus HQ, whether you destroyed it or saved it. Mass Effect: Invasion shows that Cerberus has a research base experimenting on Reaper tech, with or without the base intact. Quite clearly, Cerberus was harvesting tons of equipment from the ruins.

You're clutching at straws. Straws which are quickly shredded under Occam's Razor. Stop looking for reasons why Shepard didn't screw up, and ask yourself what is the most likely option, that Cerberus somehow managed to cobble together the tech to build an army from sources outside the Omega-4 relay (and that all the comics, books and in game lore is wrong), or that they did precisely what the canon says they did.

[silverexile17s]

Made Nightwing wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Quite frankly, Shepard did more for Cerberus in ME2 than he did for the rest of the galaxy. Saved a little bit of humanity, sent a lot more aliens to their graves by enabling them to become a military powerhouse.

Oh, Javik thinks Ashley's a fierce soldier. And the relevance of that to Ashley being a racist is...? (Let me put it this way, I think my section commander is an absolute badass. So he's a racist?)

Wrong. That's only if he want's to. It can easily go either way -- Shepard can make Project Overlord fall completely through. And IDK if you remember, but EDI says that it cost Cerberus the majority of all their resources to revive Shepard and rebuild the Normandy. They were banking on the capture of the Collector homeworld to re-coop the costs -- which you can deny them.
So, no -- weather or not Shepard does more for Cerberus is dependant on your choices. And FYI, according to "Mass Effect: Retribution,"  Cerberus had Reaper-Implantation tech long before the Suicide Mission. Hell, it's even speculated that Project Lazarus was created by studying and trying to replicate husk-reanimation tech.

Because she and Javik share beliefs in regards to synthetics and to how they view other races -- as the means to defeat Reapers. Allies without attachment or trust.

Source on that one, please.

Also, let's look at the effects, would we? Cerberus, whether you destroy the base or not, is a military powerhouse and major villain. So destroying the base did bugger all, didn't it?

But they did not have anywhere near the samples they needed, nor the type of tech to directly implant it. That's like saying 'Saddam Hussein already had chemical weapons when Iraq fought Iran. Therefore it wasn't bad that the USA sold them thousands more.'

Right, so Ashley wants to eat salarian liver and establish a mighty empire with humans on top?

Again, it's (A) a random quote on the Normandy after the Citadel Coup and ( in a conversation between them on at the Crew Party during the Citadel DLC -- Javik says that he respects Ash as a soldier.

Wrong. Cerberus is a splinter orginization that can't field full-on battles. They lost the majority of their forces in Council space during the failed attack on the Citadel, and the majority of their forces in the Terminus fell to untrained civilians on Omega. Their army was a fraction of the size of the Alliance -- they fought with garulla tactics. You know, what you use when the enemy completely overpowers and outnumbers you? And they lose even more when the Normandy defects. It likely cost them the liquidation of all their remaining resources in the galaxy to get to where they were in ME3. Hell, the reason they took Omega was because they were desperate for bodies and resources. You're very act of taking the Normandy screwed them over.

They had other sites like the Derelict Reaper to take from. You're dreaming if you think all that came from the Collector Base, since most of the tech there was bio-organic. Thus, weather or not you spare or destroy the base, you still take away the majority of what was there.

You'd be right about the human empire part.

[silverexile17s]

iakus wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Played by 18%  to be precise.

And it's a small number compared to what the very vocal and entitled femshep base on the BSN would like everyone to believe.

To be fair these forums period are a vocal entitled minority who mostly take up a smaller faction of players (for one I'm pretty sure most of BSN has finished the game to the ending, played more than once, imported characters from ME1 and ME2, among other things). So it's not really surprising that femShep players have a louder voice here. Most of the fringe elements do

Ashley fans appear to be a fringe element too 

Wrong, IDK if you know this, but the BSN tends to represent the core of the series fans -- the die-hards that stayed around through everything, even after the BS original endings of ME3.
Try taking everything into account for once, will you?

Are you by any chance related to txgoldrush?

Who?
Dude, if people are still on these forms after ME3, it's because they're the core of the fanbase. Most people that buy the game don't even come here.

[Made Nightwing]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, let's look at the effects, would we? Cerberus, whether you destroy the base or not, is a military powerhouse and major villain. So destroying the base did bugger all, didn't it?

Cerberus, while dangerous, is a minor threat compared to the Reapers, and Shepard destroyed what might have become a new capital ship soon enough, in addition to heavily damaging the manpower of the Collectors. Plus, the whole Arrival thing.

I'm not sure that tying up thousands of troops, almost losing the heart of galactic government, losing valuable resources to, and diverting ships and men to fight can be considered a 'minor' threat. The geth-quarian war is a minor incident compared to the Reapers, but it still has galactic significance.

Also, Arrival was an Alliance op that almost didn't need Shepard (they couldn't beat the indoctrination clock), putting the lie to the usual spiel that the Alliance wasn't doing anything. Cerberus didn't do jack **** to slow down the Reapers, a battalion's worth of Alliance soldiers, engineers and spies had to do it.

[P. Domi]

 
Retribution takes place AFTER the suicide mission. direct quote from the first pages in the book:

"Commander Shepard had discovered that human colonists were being abducted by theCollectors, a reclusive alien species that served the will of the Reapers without question. Though trappedin dark space, the massive starships were somehow able to exert control over their hapless minions evenacross millions of light-years. Acting on the orders of their machine masters, the Collectors had beengathering humans and taking them t o their homeworld in the galactic core. There the abductees wererepurposed: transformed, mutated, and finally rendered down into organic sludge as part of a horrificexperiment to fuel the creation of a new Reaper. Shepard—with Cerberus’s help—had destroyed theCollector operations."

(...)

"Cerberus had salvaged key pieces of technology from the remains o f the Collector operation. They were alreadybeginning to set up a facility to undertake the first carefully controlled tests o f t he strange alien technology".

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
...
3) And yet, Kaiden is willing to accept his mistakes and move on, rather then just try to ignore it. He accepts that you had justification for leaving him if you started a new relationship. He admits that he reacted badly on Horizon and that it was a mistake to not trust you. Ashley never once confronts the fact that she screwed up, making excuses. Kaiden ismature enough to be willing to take repsoncibility for his mistake, while Ashley can't swallow her pride and face up to what happened on Horizon.
...

Ashley apologies for her reaction on Horizon in the e-mail she sent.

Again, that's only if you romanced her. With Kaiden, you don't have to romance him to have him fess up to having overreacted on Horizon. That e-mail is invalid because it doesn't excuse how she acts if she isn't romanced. Kaiden apologizes and owns up to his mistakes regardless of if you romancd him or not. Ashley is solely dependant on if you romanced her.

Again, point to Kaiden in my book -- when he makes a mistake, he owns up to it.

Wait, she needs an "excuse" when unromanced? She's supposed to apologise for not trusting Shep when he's resurrected from the dead by a terrorist organization that they fought against in the previous game? That's just silly. Her reaction was perfectly reasonable, if not welcome. I'd only expect a apology if she was romanced. Otherwise its water under the bridge.

Kaiden did.  Ashley refused to admit that she might be even the slightest bit in the wrong -- she turned her heal on you when she was surrounded by proof that Shepard was right. But apperantly, looking back in hindsight at the colony full of dead Collectors and the husks they were using as shock troopers wasn't enough evidence to consider she overreacted and misjudged Shepard. I mean, it was for Kaiden.
Seriously, I'd think that when you turn your back on the person who saved your life, while surrounded by evidence that they're telling the truth, and call them a Traitor to their face, the logical thing to do is apologize. Not make up excuses. Kaiden did the mature thing -- he owned up to his mistakes. Ashley just couldn't swallow her pride and admit that she was wrong about Shepard.

The only evidence on Horizon is that Shep saved Ashley's and half the colonists' lives. That's not evidence that Shepard can be trusted. Besides, she was right. Cerberus leaked information to manipulate the Alliance into planting her or Kaiden out there to attract to Collectors to the colony so Shepard could further his investigation. Cerberus was partially responsible for the attack.

Also, could you be more specific on the "excuses" Ashley made? I'm pretty sure if she talking about it at all she just gave a reason why she acted as she did.

The evidence is that the Collectors had Husks with them, and of course there was the testimony from the colonists who Harbingr spoke to. It's even in the Codex that the survivors remember being spoken to by an entity that called itself "Harbinger."  The fact that Shepard saved the Colony, and the fact that Garrus, (and later on Tali), as well as multiple non-human races working with him despite Cerberus's xenophobic beliefs, should be more then proof enough for anyone that Shepard is on the level. And looking back at it on hindsight, Kaiden realizes that and admits it, saying he was wrong to not trust Shepard.
And being the Terminus colony with the highest population in the area, Horizon was always at risk anyway.

Ashley attributed her beahvior to the Cerberus ties -- she never once states that she overreacted or that she made a mistake, and says she was perfectly justified in her beliefs. Kaiden does the opposite -- he admits that he knew Shepard better then that and overreacted from the shock of seeing Shepard with Cerberus two years after the Commander was supposedly killed.

[Made Nightwing]

@silverexile. Seriously? Dude, they indoctrinated and implanted THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of civilians to use as soldiers. They already had a massive fleet (cruisers and a dreadnought, a dreadnought costs more than a frigate) with which to seize Omega. They weren't a minor threat, dude, they had several divisions worth of heavy infantry. They were launching full on assaults on multiple worlds at once. Citadel, Benning, Tuchanka, the list goes on. Pre-war, Cerberus was built into every layer of the galactic economy, they were freaking rich. Taking the Normandy was a set back, but losing one frigate did not cripple the organisation like you seem to think.

Right, so just ignore my entire point about they couldn't have possibly gotten anything off the Derelict Reaper, and their research bases past the Omega 4.

[silverexile17s]

pablodomi wrote...

 
Retribution takes place AFTER the suicide mission. direct quote from the first pages in the book:

"Commander Shepard had discovered that human colonists were being abducted by theCollectors, a reclusive alien species that served the will of the Reapers without question. Though trappedin dark space, the massive starships were somehow able to exert control over their hapless minions evenacross millions of light-years. Acting on the orders of their machine masters, the Collectors had beengathering humans and taking them t o their homeworld in the galactic core. There the abductees wererepurposed: transformed, mutated, and finally rendered down into organic sludge as part of a horrificexperiment to fuel the creation of a new Reaper. Shepard—with Cerberus’s help—had destroyed theCollector operations."

(...)

"Cerberus had salvaged key pieces of technology from the remains o f the Collector operation. They were alreadybeginning to set up a facility to undertake the first carefully controlled tests o f t he strange alien technology".

After the Suicide Mission, but NOT after ME2. Arrival cannonacally takes place after the Suicide Mission. Therefore, there is at least one week between them. Also, Cerberus had Reaper-tech long before that -- you know, since they made EDI with some of the few surviving bits of Sovergein? And I'm sure they had more then enough husks to discect for implants.

[Made Nightwing]

@Silverexile. You're missing the point, the point is that the book actually states that they salvaged key pieces of technology from it. 'Key'. As in, pieces they didn't have before. They didn't implant Grayson with husk tech they previously had (husk tech that would have been shot to pieces anyway), they implanted him what they found on the Collector base. The book freaking tells you this in detail.

[silverexile17s]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@silverexile. Seriously? Dude, they indoctrinated and implanted THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of civilians to use as soldiers. They already had a massive fleet (cruisers and a dreadnought, a dreadnought costs more than a frigate) with which to seize Omega. They weren't a minor threat, dude, they had several divisions worth of heavy infantry. They were launching full on assaults on multiple worlds at once. Citadel, Benning, Tuchanka, the list goes on. Pre-war, Cerberus was built into every layer of the galactic economy, they were freaking rich. Taking the Normandy was a set back, but losing one frigate did not cripple the organisation like you seem to think.

Right, so just ignore my entire point about they couldn't have possibly gotten anything off the Derelict Reaper, and their research bases past the Omega 4.

No, they didn't. Many of those were loyal Cerberus cells that willingly were recruited to the group after they made themselves more widely known in ME2. And again, that number is SMALL compared to the size of the other races militaries. Cerberus attacked using blind-sides and hit-and-runs --- they were like the Collectors. They were like plastic dolls that were mass-fabricated and went down easily. More freedom then drones, but less creative then free-willed humans. They did not have a "massive" fleet -- it ammounted to aprox 25-30 cruisers. The Alliance fleets number 100 apiece. And there are at least nine Alliance fleets. And the Alliance has the smallest military out of all the Council Races. Let that sink in, why don't you?
They were a minor threat, especally when compared to the Reapers. And those weren't "full-on assaults," they were raiding parties. In comparison to a three-man team, you might think they wre assaults. But trust me, compared to the armies of the rest of the galaxy, they weren't.
And wrong. Cerberus was built into the human economy. Saying they were "built into every layer of the galact economy" is a massively gross overestimation of them, since EDI says that reviving Shepard and rebuilding the Normandy nearly bankrupted them. Take that into account, why don't you?

So, describing yourself? You're the one ignoring my point, not the other way around -- they had tons of husks leftover from the Battle of the Citadel and wherever else Saren when in his little crusade. A lot of that tech was in Cerberus' posession already. Just not as prestine.

[silverexile17s]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Silverexile. You're missing the point, the point is that the book actually states that they salvaged key pieces of technology from it. 'Key'. As in, pieces they didn't have before. They didn't implant Grayson with husk tech they previously had (husk tech that would have been shot to pieces anyway), they implanted him what they found on the Collector base. The book freaking tells you this in detail.

You are the one misssing the point -- they salavged tech, sure, but the majority of their Reaper tech was stuff they already had. EDI came from the few surviving bits of Sovergien. Project Lazarus was rumored to have been developed from study of husk implants. There were many, many husks to recover and discect in the wake of ME1. The difference bewteen what they got from the Collector Base and what they already had was that the former wasn't pre-bonded to a host, while the latter had to be pried off the dead corpses.
They didn't attempt this right off the bat, you know -- they did test with Reaper Technology beforehand before using Grayson (remember the colony at Chasca? Or the husks in their base in ME1? They possessed the implantation tech and were experimenting with it long before ME2). You should remember that - the game "freaking tells you this in detail." (Shepard accusing Miranda about Cerberus being too callous, using "rachni, thorian creepers, even husks to make their own army. Miranda then fully admits that all three were being used in shock-trooper projects, proving that what they tried later on with Grayson had indeed been a project they already had experiance with).

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 novembre 2013 - 06:12 .