134 réponses à ce sujet

[Deerber]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

Deerber wrote...

prostheticlimbs wrote...

Because the alternative is recharge speed, and I never take recharge speed evos on any power.

That is an absolute stance and, as all absolutes, is pretty stupid. If you don't take recharge speeds because the other choice is always very good in your eyes then it's ok, but if you do that on principle because you think recharge speeds are worthless then you might want to think about it again, and more deeply.

I find that Recharge speed is useless but it's my opinion and doesn't affect you or the way you play in any form, so I don't understand the problem :]

Sorry if my comment came across as aggressive or anything - it was not meant that way. I was simply trying to make you note that absolutes are rarely a good thing.

It's definitely your game, and your right to play it as you see fit. That goes without saying, really.

I once was against recharge speed evos too, then I found out that I love it on the Fury, for example. So... Not trying to tell you how to play, and sorry if it came off like that, but more trying to share an experience and make you think about your stances, which is rarely a bad thing 

[Deerber]

megabeast37215 wrote...

OniGanon wrote...

Pierce allows you to use mod/ammo slots for other things, like Incendiary Ammo, Clip mods or Extended Barrels.

For example: Pierce + Extended Barrel on the Hurricane is more DPS against Armor than the SMG HVB, and is better against Shields/Barriers too.

But then you miss out on all the double/triple hit goodness vs Praetorians, Ravagers, Scions, Banshees, Atlases, etc. without the penetration afforded by piercing mods. Correct?

Correct. Which makes the HVB a better option against boss shields as well, with a few exceptions.

[OniGanon]

I don't really notice the loss of double hits against anything except Atlases.

[Moby]

Mega you're making people think a little... thinking is bad for BSN!!

... Want to get Magical in a bit? I had no intention of being up this early but something came up.

[Deerber]

OniGanon wrote...

I don't really notice the loss of double hits against anything except Atlases.

I find them very noticeable on Praetorians too. Shooting them from the front makes them go down faster than Primes.

The only one I don't really notice is the one on Banshees, really. It feels a bit random to me. Sometimes I will do a lot of damage more, sometimes it almost feels like I'm doing less than usual 

[megabeast37215]

Deerber wrote...

OniGanon wrote...

I don't really notice the loss of double hits against anything except Atlases.

I find them very noticeable on Praetorians too. Shooting them from the front makes them go down faster than Primes.

The only one I don't really notice is the one on Banshees, really. It feels a bit random to me. Sometimes I will do a lot of damage more, sometimes it almost feels like I'm doing less than usual 

I ALWAYS notice it on Banshees. As soon as the 'Hand of Denial' goes up... Double hits kick in. It's so consistent that I often go out of my way to force the hand to go up. 

Moby: let's roll bro.

[Moby]

K I'll just be a moment. Gotta brush mah teefs!!

[capn233]

The "debuff" part on Pierce is a mediocre debuff. That is true. But you don't take pierce for the debuff, you take it for the extra armor and barrier multipliers.

Every single Recharge Speed evolution in the game is pretty mediocre, and this one on Warp is no exception. And for the most part the ones worth taking are opposed to evolutions that are either glitched, or completely useless in some other way.

Also just because you have some sort of cover penetration does not mean you are taking advantage of double hits. SMG HVB is a whole 0.65m of cover penetration.

[Ferocious Panda]

Megabeast I actually agree with you I think. I was just looking into this about a week ago, and for characters with a long cool down, recharge speed seems like it would really help.

My question of course is does it make incendiary glitching weaker if you don't take 6a?

oh but on overload I always go neural shock. Double damage to organicas means you will be stripping shields of  banshees, praetorians, and phantoms a lot faster. I've never heard of enemies on the ground taking less damage, but for them to actually get knocked over they have to be at health so it shouldn't matter too much

Modifié par Ferocious Panda, 09 novembre 2013 - 04:22 .

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Deerber wrote...

That is an absolute stance and, as all absolutes, is pretty stupid.

But isn't that...?

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

I would think that recharge speed could be the preferable choice on a pure BE kit like, say, the human sentinel. A little bit of extra damage on a dragoon doesn't seem worth as much as getting that BE combo on him .3 seconds earlier to me. And the quicker recharge speed can also free up more weapon weight, which amounts to greater weapon versatility or damage.

And .3 seconds reiterated over the course of an entire mission can add up to a notable number of additional explosions.

Is my reasoning flawed on these points?

[peddroelm]

warp does very little damage so the extra modifiers vs defenses doesn't mean much for warp ...

But when you combine it with the incendiary ammo and the resulting combined effect uses warp's modifiers vs defenses - those modifiers start to matter a lot

[The Last]

I always take pierce on any character that has warp. Since my cooldown is quick on my characters anyways, never found recharge speed useful unless the alternative was worse.

Not saying recharge speed is useless, it just depends on the power that you use it on because most of the other options ends up better. For warp though, its always pierce over recharge speed.

[megabeast37215]

Ferocious Panda wrote...

Megabeast I actually agree with you I think. I was just looking into this about a week ago, and for characters with a long cool down, recharge speed seems like it would really help.

My question of course is does it make incendiary glitching weaker if you don't take 6a?

oh but on overload I always go neural shock. Double damage to organicas means you will be stripping shields of  banshees, praetorians, and phantoms a lot faster. I've never heard of enemies on the ground taking less damage, but for them to actually get knocked over they have to be at health so it shouldn't matter too much

I believe it does make Incendiary cheese weaker without 6a... 

Concerning Overload... Knocking enemies to the ground isn't as helpful as people think. It deprives you of the headshot opportunity and if you had recharge speed, you could stagger the next target faster. Also, since the first target is on the ground, you have to adjust your level of aim downward, then back up for the next target. It doesn't seem like much but the two advantages together are a decent time saver. 

The only enemy I think Neural Shock is worth using in is a close range, unshielded Possessed Abomination.

[Deerber]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Ferocious Panda wrote...

Megabeast I actually agree with you I think. I was just looking into this about a week ago, and for characters with a long cool down, recharge speed seems like it would really help.

My question of course is does it make incendiary glitching weaker if you don't take 6a?

oh but on overload I always go neural shock. Double damage to organicas means you will be stripping shields of  banshees, praetorians, and phantoms a lot faster. I've never heard of enemies on the ground taking less damage, but for them to actually get knocked over they have to be at health so it shouldn't matter too much

I believe it does make Incendiary cheese weaker without 6a... 

Concerning Overload... Knocking enemies to the ground isn't as helpful as people think. It deprives you of the headshot opportunity and if you had recharge speed, you could stagger the next target faster. Also, since the first target is on the ground, you have to adjust your level of aim downward, then back up for the next target. It doesn't seem like much but the two advantages together are a decent time saver. 

The only enemy I think Neural Shock is worth using in is a close range, unshielded Possessed Abomination.

If I take neural shock it's usually not to crash enemies on the floor, which I agree is annoying, but for the stupidly powerful multiplier against organic opponents.

[Max Dmian]

Main reason to choose Neural Shock is the extra damage, especially helpful against Phantoms.

[Ferocious Panda]

Neural shock doesn't just knock down organics though, it makes overload do twice as much damage to organics. It doesn't say that though, because bioware

[megawug]

Depends on the character. For characters like the AA, where I count on BEs for damage, I chose faster cooldown. Warp on its own as a damaging power is too easy for the enemy to dodge.

[Creator Limbs]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Deerber wrote...

That is an absolute stance and, as all absolutes, is pretty stupid.

But isn't that...?

Shh..just let it happen.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Ferocious Panda wrote...

Neural shock doesn't just knock down organics though, it makes overload do twice as much damage to organics. It doesn't say that though, because bioware

Because here at Bioware, we rely on on players to figure out what our programs actually do.

[TheKillerAngel]

megabeast37215 wrote...

I mean... Seriously... We are all pretty knowledgeable here. We all know that you don't go into a match without an appropriate amount of piercing on your weapon. This is especially true in the case of SMGs, Shotguns and ARs, which tend to be low damage per bullet/pellet weapons. 

I mean... If you're using Warp, you are very likely using Warp ammo, which reduces the armor penalty. Probably some sort of peircing mod, like the High Velocity Barrels, Shredder Mod, etc. (Which affords cover penetration as well).

So... If we have all these answers for the armor penalty already built into our setups, why do we need the Pierce evo on Warp? It's redundant. You already have over 100% armor DR mitigation from Warp ammo and piercing mods. It doesn't stop you from cheese-ing, or anything like that. The raw damage vs armor is a complete joke. It makes more sense to me to take recharge speed, especially on classes using medium/heavy weapons... So you can transition to the next target faster. 

Thoughts?

Because warp incendiary deeeepzzz

[FromTheAlps]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Ferocious Panda wrote...

Megabeast I actually agree with you I think. I was just looking into this about a week ago, and for characters with a long cool down, recharge speed seems like it would really help.

My question of course is does it make incendiary glitching weaker if you don't take 6a?

oh but on overload I always go neural shock. Double damage to organicas means you will be stripping shields of  banshees, praetorians, and phantoms a lot faster. I've never heard of enemies on the ground taking less damage, but for them to actually get knocked over they have to be at health so it shouldn't matter too much

I believe it does make Incendiary cheese weaker without 6a... 

Concerning Overload... Knocking enemies to the ground isn't as helpful as people think. It deprives you of the headshot opportunity and if you had recharge speed, you could stagger the next target faster. Also, since the first target is on the ground, you have to adjust your level of aim downward, then back up for the next target. It doesn't seem like much but the two advantages together are a decent time saver. 

The only enemy I think Neural Shock is worth using in is a close range, unshielded Possessed Abomination.

Neural shock does a lot more than knocking mooks down, because it does about 1000 more damage compared to the recharge speed evo. The knockdown is really a downside though, I agree on that.
It's a matter of personal taste I guess.

[megawug]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Ferocious Panda wrote...

Neural shock doesn't just knock down organics though, it makes overload do twice as much damage to organics. It doesn't say that though, because bioware

Because here at Bioware, we rely on on players to figure out what our programs actually do.

Yeah, but it's also a sense of discovery for players.  BSNers have figured out things that even the devs weren't really aware of.  It made the game far more involved than the usual tic-tac-toe game mechanics.

[OniGanon]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Deerber wrote...

That is an absolute stance and, as all absolutes, is pretty stupid.

But isn't that...?

There's an exception to every rule. Except this rule. But by being an exception to this rule, it proves that there is an exception to every rule. But it's only proven because this is a rule without exception.

I forgot where I was going with this...

[megabeast37215]

@ Max and Panda: lol... The more you know. Here I am, still learning chit about this game almost 2 years later. Thanks fellas. That's why I love threads like this...