91 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Okay, the endgame choices from the first two games were disappointingly minimized, but your choices did matter, and they mattered quite a bit. I felt like crap shooting Mordin in the back, had tears when he sacrificed himself, and felt pleased and a little guilty when he lived. Grissom Academy without Jack is really really grim. With her, it's one of the campaigns emotional highspots. I shot Kaidan and got some nice character moments from Joker and Liara I'd never seen before. I can't even bear the thought of playing a default game because that means Miranda would die. Even Omega matters. Otherwise, why would I feel a need to wash my hands after Aria strangled Petrovsky? The effect of a choice is not measured by the final mission alone.

[Linkenski]

With the Extended Cut things are indeed reflected upon, maybe vaguely, but it does make you smile a little. Unfortunately it's still that moment with the Catalyst that nags me the most. I still want to counterargue his claim that Synthetics can't coexist with organics. You have EDI, the Geth and the Quarians, heck Shepard can even blame himself and not the rest of all organics for destroying the quarians, if that's what happened in your playthrough.

Choices do matter, but at the most pivotal moment it comes like a slap in the face that you can't use your past choices as evidence that the whole theme presented in the ending revolves around a non-existing issue, that should not need a solution. I don't care if the Catalyst wouldn't understand or is delusional, so you still have to choose either of the 3 options, just as long as the game recognized your choices in that scene.

Modifié par Linkenski, 10 novembre 2013 - 01:35 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Strawman much?

[Linkenski]

Care to elaborate who you're aiming that at, and what you mean by it?

[Sir DeLoria]

Linkenski wrote...

Heck Shepard can even blame himself and not the rest of all organics for destroying the quarians, if that's what happened in your playthrough.

Of course Shepard should blame himself, it was his fault. The man/woman was responsible for a bloody genocide in that scenario. Blaming it on anyone else would be utter denial.

[xlegionx]

The "Choices Don't Matter" idea is kinda taken out of context here, as whenever people said this, they were usually referring directly to the final choice. And in the instance in the case of the original endings, choices didn't matter. the only choices you could say mattered were EMS, but that is a totally arbitrary number that you could get almost entirely from MP.

[Linkenski]

I was just trying to be pre-emptive to ending-defenders that failure on either part in the Geth/Quarian struggle does not validate the Catalyst's statements.

[Kataphrut94]

I'll bust out the line I use on everyone who says choices didn't matter: the choices did matter, just not in the way YOU wanted them to matter.

You make a good point in that not every choice should be judged just on how it impacts the ending, or even just later scenes. Sometimes, the decision you make at the time is what really matters.

[Obadiah]

@jtav
Agreed!

[Linkenski]

xlegionx wrote...

The "Choices Don't Matter" idea is kinda taken out of context here, as whenever people said this, they were usually referring directly to the final choice. And in the instance in the case of the original endings, choices didn't matter. the only choices you could say mattered were EMS, but that is a totally arbitrary number that you could get almost entirely from MP.

I also thought this ^

People tend to look at the flaws when they critizise. The choices do matter in lots of parts of the game, but the three biggest things ended in cop-outs. The rachni queen/clone shown in ME3 is a cop-out to your choice in ME1 (This is something I believe EVERYONE were excited about how would turn out), The collector base intel was merely reflected on at mars but otherwise completely ignored (think the remains of the human reaper at the Cerberus HQ mission) and the Geth/Quarian choice or however you handled EDI (not like there is a "bad" outcome anyway) is ignored when you meet the Catalyst... not to mention that the final mission doesn't reflect on which races you got with you or which individual EMS scores you got... or it does a little right when you enter the mission, but it's not exactly impressive.

But my take is, in all of those cases your choices are at least reflected upon or aknowledged by the game, but in the case with the Catalyst they aren't even considered.

BTW; I don't care for Leviathan arguments. That DLC was made as a response to players telling Bioware the ending needed context.

[FlamingBoy]

you can be sick of hearing it, however it does not make it untrue.

Also some intense straw mans going around.

[NeonFlux117]

Hey bro.

Your Choices didn't matter.

Deal with it.

[Linkenski]

FlamingBoy wrote...

you can be sick of hearing it, however it does not make it untrue.

Also some intense straw mans going around.

Are you referring to me?

[FlamingBoy]

Linkenski wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

you can be sick of hearing it, however it does not make it untrue.

Also some intense straw mans going around.

Are you referring to me?

No, if I was i would have quoted you. I was pinning it upon the open statement laid down by op.

[jtav]

Not strawmanning. The post that touched this off implied BW lied because the choices didn't effect the ending, as if the sole purpose of a choice is to determine the endgame.

[Linkenski]

No, okay then. IDK, calling OP a straw man isn't fair IMO, because it seems to me like OP is just unaware of the reason people keep saying that "choice didn't matter", like another guy here said, it's taken out of context, but I think a lot of people misinterpret it like that a lot of times, especially people who didn't care much about the ending itself.

And I do share op's sentiment either way. It's not like all the choices are meaningless, and even when they are there's still some sort of emotional payoff when you choose an option, even before you see the consequence, or if there is no apparent consequence.

ME3 kinda jinxed a lot of the choices by ignoring them when it showed the big consequence, but going back you still remember the potential in all the choices and they are still tough to choose in the personal situations

But yeah, we all agree that this isn't what people mean when they say that phrase.

EDIT: Nevermind. this post was typed and meanwhile op posted that ^

Bioware didn't "lie" when you look at it bluntly, but they were deceptive in a really disingenous way. They did decieve the fans because they knew people wanted their choices to affect the final outcome, so they were intentionally vague about it.

Modifié par Linkenski, 10 novembre 2013 - 02:13 .

[iOnlySignIn]

Of course you choices matter.

Even your choice of fish matters - if you kept a certain fish in ME2 alive you get a nice +10% weapon or power damage bonus in ME3.

Another example is whether you helped a certain bar maid or not in ME1 decides whether Conrad Verner dies or not in ME3. That is what I call a huge impact. No sarcasm - Conrad is a very important character to me, more important than several of Shep's squadmates.

But people expect everything to affect the ending which is unrealistic to the point of ridiculous. There is no "judgment day" in reality without divine intervention. You cannot expect every timeline to funnel down into a single bottleneck where everything is accounted for. That is simply impossible in a complex system like a whole galaxy.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 10 novembre 2013 - 02:23 .

[Sebby]

Sorry OP, but some fluff flavoring "choices" that don't affect the gameplay and story one iota don't make this trilogy any less of a linear corridor shooter.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Even your choice of fish matters - if
you kept a certain fish in ME2 alive you get a nice +10% weapon or
power damage bonus in ME3.

That sadly has more effect on the game that the vast majority of "choices" in ME3 and the previous two games.

Modifié par Seboist, 10 novembre 2013 - 02:30 .

[Linkenski]

It's kind of a glass-half-full thing way to look at it, but I agree that keeping certain people alive in ME1/ME2 does carry over to ME3, even some of the things you said/chose in ME2 that didn't have to do with people dying or not carried over to ME3. The thing about Maelon's data for example was covered in a neat way IMO because Wrex would be hostile towards you if you destroyed it, and it would be harder/impossible to cure the genophage etc.

The phrase "Your choices didn't matter" is usually extended with "...in the end" because it doesn't matter whether the genophage is ended or not to the over-arching plot. It doesn't matter whether the rachni queen survives or not to the overarching plot, and it doesn't matter whether the quarian/geth war ended with peace or genocide to the over-arching plot... in the end.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I'm materialistic about the choices:

I do believe they should have an impact that is reflected in either the ending, or showing how something panned out post-game. If not that, then seeing some kind of concrete effect in the game on how it affects my Shepard and he sees the galaxy. Seeing an effect to my efforts in my choices is what matters to me. I want to see how my choices affect my game.

And yes, I feel that Mass Effect 3 did not fulfill that in my opinion.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 10 novembre 2013 - 02:53 .

[spirosz]

I changed Jack.

She changed Shepard.

Choices matter.

[Cobalt2113]

Linkenski wrote...

I was just trying to be pre-emptive to ending-defenders that failure on either part in the Geth/Quarian struggle does not validate the Catalyst's statements.

By that same token, success in halting the geth/quarian conflict does not invalidate the catalyst's statements. Peace doesn't always last. In fact usually it doesn't.

[SlottsMachine]

Seboist wrote...

Sorry OP, but some fluff flavoring "choices" that don't affect the gameplay and story one iota don't make this trilogy any less of a linear corridor shooter.

Pretty much. None of the important choices meant diddly. 

[SlottsMachine]

J. Reezy wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I changed Jack.

She changed Shepard.

Choices matter.

She did?

She rearranged his face, does that count?