182 réponses à ce sujet

[Argentoid]

Linkenski wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

ME2 is the worst game in the series by far, especially when you notice every issue with ME3 is because of it.

I noticed every issue in ME3. I blame all the issue in ME3 on ME3. 

I noticed every ME issue because of ME2. No plot, stupid daddy issues, the stupid Terminator, stupid Harbinger rants, stupid Cerberus retcon, stupid Project Lazarus, Shepard being a brick (wakes up after 2 years being dead): "OLLOLOL THIS PISTOL DOESN'T HAVE A THERMAL CLIP!!!"

Your Miranda fanboyism is probably the only reason why you love ME2 so much.
Heh, I can picture you playing ME3 "Y BIOWERE?! Y U NO HAB MOAR MIRANDA STUFF!!!11 LE ENDING SUCKZ LELLELELELELEL"

I could swear a lot of what you said here are almost carbon-copy Smudboy quotes.

I noticed every issue with ME3 from the get-go with the inconsistent characterizations (Shepard wtf, why R U dudebro?! Anderson, why R U also dudebro in your speaking manner!?!? Where are my dialogue choices? Where are the 'good' sidequests!?)
Then I learned all of the ME Trilogy issues because I went to this forum :-P
I almost liked the ending until I realised that it was just BS. I did notice it violate the main theme of ME3 at the 11th hour but I didn't think much of the lack of closure and so forth. I just hated the explanation behind the Reapers but I actually liked Synthesis until I read stuff in here and realised it was non-sense.

If I were a carbon-copy of Smudboy, I would definitely hate ME3. But yes, I agree most with him.

I'll admit that ME2 was an awesome adrenaline pumping ride. But hey, if I want that, I think there's a game called Call of Duty that excells at it.

Modifié par Argentoid, 11 novembre 2013 - 01:18 .

[Linkenski]

Okay I apologize because I kind of feel like a jerk for calling you out on that. :-P

Anyhow it's not actually that I think it's bad that you used some of Smudboy's expressions. I've seen all his ME3 analysis videos and his Bioshock Infinite stuff and I think most of his points are very well made, even though I dislike his condencending tone sometimes.

Modifié par Linkenski, 11 novembre 2013 - 01:22 .

[Argentoid]

Linkenski wrote...

Okay I apologize because I kind of feel like a jerk for calling you out on that. :-P

Anyhow it's not actually that I think it's bad that you used some of Smudboy's expressions. I've seen all his ME3 analysis videos and his Bioshock Infinite stuff and I think most of his points are very well made, even though I dislike his condencending tone sometimes.

No problem. Oh yes, we can definitely agree on that.

I just don't get why people like ME2 so much. I know some characters are well written, and that the Suicide Mission is quite great. But there's a lot of incosistences, retcons and yadda yadda.  

Modifié par Argentoid, 11 novembre 2013 - 01:21 .

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

I think I might like most Bioware games equally. Maybe actually like NWN2 more than 1.

NWN 2 wasn't Bio.

[Linkenski]

Dunno man. I liked ME2 most for several reasons. I think one is that I was younger and I was at college (a sort of college but as a 10th grader... I don't think it exists in the US), so I kinda hyped it up with the other friends I had while during ME3 I had a lot of stress with homework during my high-school time.

ME2 was also my first next-gen game on pc, somehow that did something as well.

But overall I just think ME2 struck the perfect balance between exploration, atmosphere, cinematic storytelling and player agency. ME1 was very long in the tooth until its final moments, but I did really enjoy that game a lot, in some ways more than ME2, but I strongly disagree that ME2 is your average CoD substitute.

I didn't notice any plot-holes and I kinda took it for what it was, being cheesy and space-opera as people sometimes call it. I didn't read too much into it but it was just really enjoyable and the characters felt real, which was a first for me until I played stuff like Uncharted and stuff like that.

I was expecting ME3 to be everything I loved about ME2, but it just took so much control away from me. The writing itself seemed dumbed down from the getgo. The introduction made me cringe so hard because of the kid and the overly heavy tone. It was like "We're 10 minutes into the game! I don't have ANY association with earth! My Shepard is a colonist, why does he automatically care about this planet that we've never seen before in this franchise!"

I just think a lot of the tension-filled dialogues between the characters are extra cheesy in ME3 mostly because you notice it more when you don't have control over your dialogue, but there was just something underwhelming about it as a whole.

But it's not like I outright hated the game. I hated it at first, then I got into it and I got really immersed, occasionaly I was thrown off by the bad one-liners or self-referential jokes that sucked ("Calibrations!" Ha ha ha... *sarcastic claps*) but I did care, almost to the point of crying when Thane got his (IMO) perfect sendoff. Literally, it was EXCACTLY as I had been daydreaming it before the launch of the game.

The combat bugged the hell outta me though. I loved the flow of it, and it was fun, but every segment was like, twice as long as they came in ME2 and it bugged the heck out of me how it was just wave after wave, and no interludes where you could holster your guns and briefly explore for a bit. Every combat section felt heavily seperated from hub-areas and I thought it was a glaring issue.

Then the ending... it was meh at first, and then days after I realised what an empty void it had made inside me because it was such an improper way to conclude it. Then the EC, I remember agreeing with a friend "I can fully forgive Bioware!" then I realised later that it was actually still pretty lame in terms of coherence to the main ME3 plot... nevermind, I got the Citadel and the other DLCs but I loved the Citadel DLC right until the party where things got really... uninteractive again.

Bioware, for the love of whoever created space, make ME4 appeal more to people who like games to be interactive, and don't make it a "movie" with tacked on combat like ME3.

TL;DR: Off-topic. Completely off-topic.

Super excited for the reveal at the VGA's, but I fear the worst somehow, and I hope that means I'm in for a positive surprise. :happy:

Modifié par Linkenski, 11 novembre 2013 - 01:33 .

[Linkenski]

I still don't get which game people refer to with MEU

[Linkenski]

I agree. There's something about ME1 and ME2 that just feel alien and especially in ME2 IMO, but it's in a good way. ME2 is a tad darker in tone than ME1 because of the locales you visit and it was just the overall immersion of the world that sold it for me.

I'm not too good at analysing or sometimes I'm just too lazy to do it, but it's all about that "feel" when you play a game, and ME2 just feels right to my taste. I didn't even bother thinking about the stuff I usually wouldn't like that was in the game the times I played it, because I can just enjoy it fully, unlike a lot of other games where flaws just seem too glaring.

I can completely see why people dislike ME2 though, with the no-plot story and "shepard dies to be revived again", but even if stuff like that is questionable I thought the latter was something that was really memorable in a good way to me. I didn't care for the no-plot. ME2 is all about exploration and the squad IMO. I liked just taking missions without knowing where the plot was going and then suddently get those calls from TIM, telling you something important is up. It kinda felt like a little space-sim at times.

[In Exile]

Morocco Mole wrote...

ME2 is the worst game in the series by far, especially when you notice every issue with ME3 is because of it.

That stupid ending has nothing to do with ME3, although it's certainly true a great deal of ME3 plot issues exist only because of ME2 basically treading water. 

[Linkenski]

IMO ME3 was still wrecked because of its premise and not the ending... well, the ending ruins the ME3 plot and every meaning found within ME1 but if I had to decide what ME3 was about before it was made, I wouldn't have chosen the "The Reapers have arrived and the galaxy must face them head on" story. I would've kept things mysterious and the threat of the reapers arriving should be there, but it should either happen late in the game or not happen at all.

I agree though that with ME1's plot there was almost sort of like the premise that ME3 should be about the Reaper war but ME2 kinda ruined that setup because of some inconsistencies that it made.

[AlanC9]

Linkenski wrote...
 I wouldn't have chosen the "The Reapers have arrived and the galaxy must face them head on" story. I would've kept things mysterious and the threat of the reapers arriving should be there, but it should either happen late in the game or not happen at all.

So ME3 wouldn't resolve anything?

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 novembre 2013 - 02:28 .

[Argentoid]

StreetMagic wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

I still don't get which game people refer to with MEU

Mass Effect Universe. I just mean ME2 expanded the general setting.

Yeap. Anyway, ME2 should have been "find a way to stop the Reaper threat".

[David7204]

No, it shouldn't have.

That would have been, at best, mediocre.

[Argentoid]

David7204 wrote...

No, it shouldn't have.

That would have been, at best, mediocre.

Care to elaborate?

[David7204]

You tell the audience how the conflict is going to be solved before the last installment even begins, you immediately cripple the conflict, cripple the tension, cripple the drama. The player is no longer wondering "How the hell are we going to do this?" with trepidation. Now they're just asking themselves "How is this artifact/technology/whatever going to save us (because we all know it will)?"

And that's lame.

And that's assuming the best situation, in which the solution goes wrong somehow, as it needs to. If it actually works at intended with no significant complications, it's 10x worse.

Modifié par David7204, 11 novembre 2013 - 03:02 .

[Argentoid]

David7204 wrote...

You tell the audience how the conflict is going to be solved before the last installment even begins, you immediately cripple the conflict, cripple the tension, cripple the drama. The player is no longer wondering "How the hell are we going to do this?" with trepidation. Now they're just asking themselves "How is this artifact/technology/whatever going to save us (because we all know it will)?"

And that's lame.

And that's assuming the best situation, in which the solution goes wrong somehow, as it needs to. If it actually works at intended with no significant complications, it's 10x worse.

Well... this is what happens when you make decisions like that and you end up with a shoehorned DEM device like the Crucible. We fix stuff with bad writing.  But hey... it's Mass Effect! Whenever the plot needs something, Mass Effect gets it.

Modifié par Argentoid, 11 novembre 2013 - 03:10 .

[Sebby]

Argentoid wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

I still don't get which game people refer to with MEU

Mass Effect Universe. I just mean ME2 expanded the general setting.

Yeap. Anyway, ME2 should have been "find a way to stop the Reaper threat".

Nah man, solving inane daddy issues and stopping a bunch of mindless bug drones (who were once protheans wooooooah!) who turned out to not be a threat at all is clearly much more important!

[Argentoid]

Seboist wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

I still don't get which game people refer to with MEU

Mass Effect Universe. I just mean ME2 expanded the general setting.

Yeap. Anyway, ME2 should have been "find a way to stop the Reaper threat".

Nah man, solving inane daddy issues and stopping a bunch of mindless bug drones (who were once protheans wooooooah!) who turned out to not be a threat at all is clearly much more important!

For real.

Modifié par Argentoid, 11 novembre 2013 - 03:30 .

[AlanC9]

Argentoid wrote...
Well... this is what happens when you make decisions like that and you end up with a shoehorned DEM device like the Crucible. We fix stuff with bad writing.  But hey... it's Mass Effect! Whenever the plot needs something, Mass Effect gets it.

I get the feeling Bio always wanted some kind of "DEM." The dark energy plot needed one too.

[dorktainian]

J. Reezy wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

BTW, BioWare shouldn't rush ME4, which was ME3's mistake.

No, ME3's mistake was its marketing.

 



https://i.chzbgr.com...4848/h8899610D/

[SwobyJ]

ME3 would only be 'redeemed' to me if it actually had that fighting in daylight like that CGI trailer, for some reason, showed. But we didn't. We fought at night, then Shepard either dies or 'perhaps lives', and the only daylight we see is on a random planet that looks like the one from Zaeed's Loyalty mission... (original ending)

Lame. And I'm someone who would still be called a **** by a lot of others! As far as I can see, we only got 2/3-3/4 of the game we should have gotten, and while I can (after over a year of crazy-addicted analyzing that I'm still doing) appreciate the art (oh YES REALLY), the simple fact remains that Bioware sold it all on 'Take Earth Back' when I still have no sense that any of that happened. Or I guess it did, but away from Shepard and whatever he was up to lol.


~~~
Mass Effect itself can survive, but only in the way that DA surviving based on how DA:I will do, imo. ME3 hurt the franchise hard, but I have hopes it has the pieces to it that will only, optimistically, make Mass Effect better than it has ever been.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 11 novembre 2013 - 06:48 .

[AlanC9]

SwobyJ wrote...

ME3 would only be 'redeemed' to me if it actually had that fighting in daylight like that CGI trailer, for some reason, showed. But we didn't. We fought at night, then Shepard either dies or 'perhaps lives', and the only daylight we see is on a random planet that looks like the one from Zaeed's Loyalty mission... (original ending)

Priority:Earth not being in daylight is your problem? Really?

[SwobyJ]

AlanC9 wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

ME3 would only be 'redeemed' to me if it actually had that fighting in daylight like that CGI trailer, for some reason, showed. But we didn't. We fought at night, then Shepard either dies or 'perhaps lives', and the only daylight we see is on a random planet that looks like the one from Zaeed's Loyalty mission... (original ending)

Priority:Earth not being in daylight is your problem? Really?

I'm not just talking literally here.


Ok, if you want it spelled out - it's as if we're missing several central missions along with sidemissions. It's like Bioware ran out of time and resources at some point and couldn't pad out the endgame experience enough for us, in story, aesthetics, and fulfillment of player expectations. WE didn't get our 'daylight', but instead are forced to make our solo decision in a moral vaccum while other people fight and die in the middle of the night and unaware of the giant cosmic decision we make until the giant colored wave hits. Bioware made their lack of conclusion, part of the story itself, which is kinda lame, but also pretty interesting to me on a personal level (what can I say... I like to 'speculate').

There's bittersweet, and there's just bitter

Extended Cut, Leviathan DLC, and Citadel DLC are... interesting... ways of patching things up.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 11 novembre 2013 - 07:33 .