188 réponses à ce sujet

[vallix]

I guess I've finally found something to question about this game. In the new Sci vs Fi docs I saw on Gametrailers, the team kept hinting towards that if you're 'mean' then you'll basically suffer more consquences.  This wasn't directly said, it was just the vibe I got.

What makes me think this even more, is that It's basically set up like that in every game that has the whole good/bad thing, even if Mass Effect's is less black and white. I want people who are always so goodie touches to suffer just as many consquences. Constantly making Paragon decisions isn't always a good thing. I want the Rachni queen to come back and prove why you should have killed her. All those people you decided to spare out of pity to sometimes have been a bad decision. There's way to many games out there where if you decide to play the more evil or renegade based character, the game almost tries to punish you and make your experience less fun.  I hope ME2 isn't set up this way.

Good examples would be the Fable series, or even something like Oblivion. I think Kotor is a good example of something that had a very nice balance. And I don't mean a few of your teammates throwing out some lines to comfort your decisions either.

Thoughts?

Modifié par vallix, 20 janvier 2010 - 07:57 .

[Naltair]

Many of the people that were hinting were celebrities and gamer journalists not so much the actual development team.

Modifié par Naltair, 20 janvier 2010 - 07:57 .

[HunterBoris.0]

So long as there is vodka I won't remember the consequences and therefore they never happened

[DeathCultArm]

Exactly. One of the reason I never even though about choosing dialouge and always went renegade was b/c there was no reproscussions. I got away with whatever I did. I understand you was a spectre and what but..there were no direct retortions.

[Megalomaniac21]

You can be renegade without having to kill everyone or ****** everyone off. Seeing as how over haldf the squad is renegade, I'm sure playing renegade on certain party member specific missions will play in the player's favor.

[GnusmasTHX]

It's probably easier to write in the repercussions for Renegade choices. As in... You shoot someone or get shot at.



But it'd be cool of paragon choice came back to bite you, like BDtS. Or maybe the asari on Feros turns out bad again, something like that.



One think advantageous for playing Paragon is that it seems that it gets the most amount of your teammates to survive. I can't wait to manage all the personalities in ME3, with old and new squad-members interacting.

[thecakeisalie19]

renegade does not necessarily mean evil. i think the secret is maintaining neutrality.

[merikano]

Actually the only time I decked the reporter in ME1 was on my main and he was mostly Paragade. My Para and Ren Sheps tried to support either pro-human and anti-alien or pro-galactic community.



After seeing the latest scifi part i'm hoping when I see her this time that she's like wearing a football helmet or something, LOL!

[DeathCultArm]

If I go out of my way to kill someone, which was possible for in ME1, then there should be direct actions to follow.



Being renegade or paragon boiled down to the same effects, they were just cosmetically different.

[Daerog]

There are just as many consequences for paragon as renegade. Paragon seems to be immediate sometimes, like you can pay someone to go away or shoot them. Paragon loses money, Renegade loses a bullet. Also, Renegades will likely get boosts from shady dealings while Paragons will have to miss out.



Only if you want to play pure roles that is.

[LucidStrike]

I'm opposed to developer (read: divine) intervention, which is what the scars seem like, but I like to think that being an ***hole has its consequences. Sure, the world's run by murderous, rich, racist, sexist, homophobic, immoral "Renegades", but they'll burn, either from self-immolation in regret or the molotovs of outraged masses.

Paragon choices tend to be about short-term sacrifices for long-term benefits.

Modifié par LucidStrike, 20 janvier 2010 - 08:09 .

[Mister Mage]

vallix wrote...Constantly making Paragon decisions isn't always a good thing.

Except that's exactly what Paragon means.  You are doing the ideal solution.  Sometimes that will be more difficult, sometimes the Renegade will "get the job done" more quickly and/or easily, but the Paragon is the one that has done the right, morally correct thing.  Unless you're a psychopath, or an idiot with no moral compass.

Genocidal Wackjob wrote...I want the Rachni queen to come back and prove why you should have killed her. All those people you decided to spare out of pity to sometimes have been a bad decision.

You know, that's the same as wiping out German descendants of **** soldiers, even if the people were babies during the war.  This Rachni Queen did nothing wrong to anybody, and was going to tell the stories of the great Commander Shepard across the generations.  Could it be a lie?  Could she be a danger?  Sure.  But she could also be an ally, she was also intelligent and sentient, and she was also generally peaceful.

Going around committing genocide of sentient beings didn't go so well for the Quarians.  I'm pretty sure the Bioware dev team is fairly anti-genocide.


Anyway, about the OP: Being "nice" is probably not the right set of words, especially with friends like Subject Zero who I heavily doubt appreciate a nice guy act.

Modifié par Mister Mage, 20 janvier 2010 - 08:10 .

[Daerog]

DeathCultArm wrote...

Being renegade or paragon boiled down to the same effects, they were just cosmetically different.

Pun intended for ME2?

[AkA-AmdusciA_]

Doing whatever you want has always more consequences, thats what renegade is about I guess. While paragon is more about to act based on ethnic rules of the society. I think both sides have their pros and contras but in me2 I think it could play in your favour to be renegade if you have seen the badass characters so far.
But one thing that annoyed me about renegade in ME was the end with dead council when udina was like "brave words but your actions speak louder blah blah.." He just pulled the "you are renegade so you are evil" thing on you which isn´t necessarily the case. I hope this will not be the case in ME2.

Modifié par AkA-AmdusciA , 20 janvier 2010 - 08:20 .

[vallix]

Mister Mage wrote...

vallix wrote...Constantly making Paragon decisions isn't always a good thing.

Except that's exactly what Paragon means.  You are doing the ideal solution.  Sometimes that will be more difficult, sometimes the Renegade will "get the job done" more quickly and/or easily, but the Paragon is the one that has done the right, morally correct thing.  Unless you're a psychopath, or an idiot with no moral compass.

Genocidal Wackjob wrote...I want the Rachni queen to come back and prove why you should have killed her. All those people you decided to spare out of pity to sometimes have been a bad decision.

You know, that's the same as wiping out German descendants of **** soldiers, even if the people were babies during the war.  This Rachni Queen did nothing wrong to anybody, and was going to tell the stories of the great Commander Shepard across the generations.  Could it be a lie?  Could she be a danger?  Sure.  But she could also be an ally, she was also intelligent and sentient, and she was also generally peaceful.

Going around committing genocide of sentient beings didn't go so well for the Quarians.  I'm pretty sure the Bioware dev team is fairly anti-genocide.


Anyway, about the OP: Being "nice" is probably not the right set of words, especially with friends like Subject Zero who I heavily doubt appreciate a nice guy act.

Honestly, I didn't make this topic to argue our personal decisions in the game, but whatever. I have no different answer than anyone else who decided to put her to rest. In the game, I see myself as my character, I'm sure you're the same.

Putting myself in Shepards shoes, do I really want to allow this queen to live, and risk yet another similar outbreak in the future? Innocent people died because of the Rachni queen, even if she didn't directly take part in the killings. I take her out, I take out any possible chance of that repeating. Why is she peaceful, because she said so? Because she talked in a soothing voice? Nonsense. Not to mention she could have easily been lying to me only to earn her escape. I'm a Spector, my job is to protect the galaxy(said by the council, and sworn by you), not put it at risk because I'll feel better when I wake up the next day.

[Monster A-Go Go]

I think being a Paragon on some of the big decisions should come back and bite you. The Council, the Rachni Queen...those kinds of things could go either way.



But if you make it a crusade to be a renegade...running around and being an a** to everyone you see, capping everyone that cuts their eyes at you, treating friends and foes alike as though they were dirt...then no, you shouldn't have as painless a game experience as a Paragon.



Just take a minute to look at things realistically. There's no way to benefit in life with a consistent policy of alienating and abusing everyone you meet. However, if you choose intimidation and leverage where they belong, you can go far. It's all about choosing your battles, and behaving like a decent human being in the meantime.

[baardhimself]

I just wish there were proper branches depending on how you act.. essentially every mission was the same you just chose if you were going to be an ass and get more cash or to kill people that would otherwise be let go.. I wish if you were an ass you got totally seperate missions that would be totally unavailable if you were a good guy... for example if you had 50% renegade you couldnt gain access to an entire planet because the guards wouldnt let you in, so you to go another route.. maybe harder, but get to the same point.

[Daerog]

Eh, the rachni queen won't go nuts during your lifetime anyway. It'll take about three generations... no, four generations.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 20 janvier 2010 - 08:18 .

[LucidStrike]

Eccentrick79 wrote...

I think being a Paragon on some of the big decisions should come back and bite you.

Should or could? Sure, I agree that it makes the narrative more realistic for both sides to have to bear the weight of their choices, but let's not go into the realm of intentional bending the universe against players through some sort of developer (divine) intervention.

[Monster A-Go Go]

baardhimself wrote...

 I wish if you were an ass you got totally seperate missions that would be totally unavailable if you were a good guy... for example if you had 50% renegade you couldnt gain access to an entire planet because the guards wouldnt let you in, so you to go another route.. maybe harder, but get to the same point.

They did have this, kinda.  At 80% Paragon, you get the mission UNC: Besieged Base .  At 80% Renegade you get the mission UNC: The Negotiation .

Oddly, the Paragon mission has you killing people and the Renegade mission has you trying ot talk your way out of a situation.

[vallix]

Eccentrick79 wrote...

I think being a Paragon on some of the big decisions should come back and bite you. The Council, the Rachni Queen...those kinds of things could go either way.

But if you make it a crusade to be a renegade...running around and being an a** to everyone you see, capping everyone that cuts their eyes at you, treating friends and foes alike as though they were dirt...then no, you shouldn't have as painless a game experience as a Paragon.

Just take a minute to look at things realistically. There's no way to benefit in life with a consistent policy of alienating and abusing everyone you meet. However, if you choose intimidation and leverage where they belong, you can go far. It's all about choosing your battles, and behaving like a decent human being in the meantime.

I don't mean necessarily being an a** to everyone. I can understand that backfiring on you, the players usually want things to go bad in those situations for giggles. I'm referring to actual decisions, rather or not to kill the scientist because she was involved in that thresher maw experiement. Does that person really deserve to live, is she a threat if you let her go(she may partake in similar experiments)? Most Paragon players will let her go and give her a second chance, most Renegades will kill her and be done with it. ME1 actually did a decent balancing job so that example isn't the best, it's just the recent interview I've seen that makes me think ME2 will lose that balance which is ironic since the majority of the new characters come across as Renegade at first sight.

Modifié par vallix, 20 janvier 2010 - 08:26 .

[DeathCultArm]

Comeuppance =/= divine intervention

[Marlina]

Mister Mage wrote...

Except that's exactly what Paragon means.  You are doing the ideal solution.  Sometimes that will be more difficult, sometimes the Renegade will "get the job done" more quickly and/or easily, but the Paragon is the one that has done the right, morally correct thing.  Unless you're a psychopath, or an idiot with no moral compass.

No. Actually, it's more like idealism vs. pragmatism. Idealism isn't always ideal.

LucidStrike wrote...

Paragon choices tend to be about short-term sacrifices for long-term benefits.

I disagree. Take BDtS. Short term sacrifice for long term goal as renegade, long term sacrifice for short term gain as paragon. 

[ShadowAldrius]

Putting myself in Shepards shoes, do I really want to allow this queen to live, and risk yet another similar outbreak in the future? Innocent people died because of the Rachni queen, even if she didn't directly take part in the killings.

She had absolutely nothing to do with it. Her children were stolen from her and she was experimented on. She isn't complicit in those deaths at all.

Now does that mean she wouldn't be killing people in the future? No way. But in this case, she was completely guiltless. Killing her is a preventative measure, nothing more.

Anyway, Paragon isn't about 'being nice' anymore than being renegade is about 'being cruel'. Being compassionate is one aspect of being a paragon, being an amoral, egotistical, trigger-happy human being is one aspect of being a renegade. There's more to it, to both of them.

And how many people do you spare out of pity...? Most of them get arrested or end up dead anyway. Usually both renegade and paragon decisions are resolved in about the same way. Charm and Intimidate are the things that unlock extra content, or resolve situations in a more agreeable fashion.

No. Actually, it's more like idealism vs. pragmatism. Idealism isn't always ideal.

Not in the slightest.

There are multiple factors involved in the paragon vs. reneage choices, but idealism vs. "pragmatism" (try cynicism) isn't one of the major ones. Pragmatism is a major element of both. The paragon way is generally the reasonable, intelligent way. You convince people with words, you find a more peaceful and benevolent solution. Renegade is generally to get straight to the heart of the problem. Kill the bad guy, punch the trouble maker, tell that person who's annoying you to shut up.

Both work in most cases.

Modifié par ShadowAldrius, 20 janvier 2010 - 08:31 .

[LucidStrike]

baardhimself wrote...

I wish if you were an ass you got totally seperate missions that would be totally unavailable if you were a good guy... for example if you had 50% renegade you couldnt gain access to an entire planet because the guards wouldnt let you in, so you to go another route.. maybe harder, but get to the same point.

There were two missions based on alignment. The Negotiation or whatever was for being mostly Renegade I think. I never got it, because I've always been 99.5% Paragon and got the Paragon mission. I'm not sure if the Paragon mission is the hostage one of the cult one.

Yeah, I once found a base on a planet and was confused as to why no one was there and I couldn't get in. It was for the Renegades only.