306 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

How is only "half the payoff" if the models were split half male and half female? Considering that Bioware has not yet implemented that yet, we do not know that there might be a better payoff for changing it up a little bit.

I was talking about if they had done it in DA:O. I assume that the development team would spend the same amount of time developing both models of the Desire Demon. Lets say they spend 8 hours per model (highly unrealistic but this is for thought process purposes). Then tehy would ahve spend 16 hours now on what is essentially the same enemy/character. And furthermore these models are only gonna be shown 4 times now instead of the original 8 times. And they've wasted 8 hours that could otherwise have been spent on something else. So ultimately doing somehing like this, for a minor enemy like a Desire Demon, where the gender of it really doesn't matter, is ultiamtely going to be unprofitable.

[Hellion Rex]

It just gets rather tiring seeing the super sexualized demons with big boobs and barely any clothing again and again.

[HiroVoid]

eluvianix wrote...

It just gets rather tiring seeing the super sexualized demons with big boobs and barely any clothing again and again.

Understandable.  They could go with the default male desire demon, but I really doubt that'll happen.  Also it's possible for the male to appear since this is a game focused on demons as enemies, so if they're as numerous as the darkspawn in DA:O, no idea.

[Ianamus]

This is something I would like to see happen. There were several cases in the previous games where Desire demons tried to tempt NPC's who I was fairly certain were heterosexual females, and I found it strange they were taking a sexualised female form. In those sort of cases I felt like a male form would have been more appropriate. 

It's more difficult with the player character, because their orientation and gender are down to the player to decide. Of course it would be entirely possible to be faced with both a female and male one simultaneously... both trying to tempt the PC... I quite like this idea, actually. 

For demographics reasons, of course. Definately. 

Modifié par EJ107, 10 novembre 2013 - 11:07 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

It just gets rather tiring seeing the super sexualized demons with big boobs and barely any clothing again and again.

Oh without a doubt. Had the desire demon initially been of male appearance, the argument would however still be the same.

Personally I'd have prefered that tehy went with a competely androgenous appearance. Imagine Slaanesh from Warhammer 40k/Fantasy. Only such an appearance would truly capture the perversion that is a Desire Demon.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 10 novembre 2013 - 11:08 .

[Icy Magebane]

Well, based on what we know about the story, I assume we're going to be fighting a lot of demons. They also mentioned demons representing emotions we haven't encountered before... so... why not take this chance to upgrade the existing demons? Rage demons, maybe not, but desire demons are the second most powerful (that we know of). If you have 5 boss level desire demons, why not alter their appearances here and there? As much as I liked the Pride Demon model, it felt kind of generic after seeing it so often...

[HiroVoid]

True. I would also think it'd be neat to see them touch up the existing demon designs since I doubt you can just translate those into DA:I with them changing engine.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Well, based on what we know about the story, I assume we're going to be fighting a lot of demons. They also mentioned demons representing emotions we haven't encountered before... so... why not take this chance to upgrade the existing demons? Rage demons, maybe not, but desire demons are the second most powerful (that we know of). If you have 5 boss level desire demons, why not alter their appearances here and there? As much as I liked the Pride Demon model, it felt kind of generic after seeing it so often...

Aren't there only 3 Pride Demons in either game, therefore 6 Pride Demons encountered in total? 

[Br3admax]

Don't see any sort of point to it in even the slightest bit of all things necessary or even wanted, but whatever floats your boat, OP.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Well, based on what we know about the story, I assume we're going to be fighting a lot of demons. They also mentioned demons representing emotions we haven't encountered before... so... why not take this chance to upgrade the existing demons? Rage demons, maybe not, but desire demons are the second most powerful (that we know of). If you have 5 boss level desire demons, why not alter their appearances here and there? As much as I liked the Pride Demon model, it felt kind of generic after seeing it so often...

Aren't there only 3 Pride Demons in either game, therefore 6 Pride Demons encountered in total? 

3 in DAO
1 in Awakening
10 in DA 2, including the 3 from Legacy.

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Well, based on what we know about the story, I assume we're going to be fighting a lot of demons. They also mentioned demons representing emotions we haven't encountered before... so... why not take this chance to upgrade the existing demons? Rage demons, maybe not, but desire demons are the second most powerful (that we know of). If you have 5 boss level desire demons, why not alter their appearances here and there? As much as I liked the Pride Demon model, it felt kind of generic after seeing it so often...

Aren't there only 3 Pride Demons in either game, therefore 6 Pride Demons encountered in total? 

3 in DAO
1 in Awakening
10 in DA 2, including the 3 from Legacy.

Okay I am hard pressed recalling that many. I can recall 2 from Origins (not counting Mouse since we never see the Pride Demon form there), 1 from Awakening. Then 2 named Pride Demons in DA2 (which should have had unique appearance given their power and plot importance), and then the genric one on the docks in the end game. Where are the remaining 4 (not counting the DLC)? 

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Well, based on what we know about the story, I assume we're going to be fighting a lot of demons. They also mentioned demons representing emotions we haven't encountered before... so... why not take this chance to upgrade the existing demons? Rage demons, maybe not, but desire demons are the second most powerful (that we know of). If you have 5 boss level desire demons, why not alter their appearances here and there? As much as I liked the Pride Demon model, it felt kind of generic after seeing it so often...

Aren't there only 3 Pride Demons in either game, therefore 6 Pride Demons encountered in total? 

3 in DAO
1 in Awakening
10 in DA 2, including the 3 from Legacy.

Okay I am hard pressed recalling that many. I can recall 2 from Origins (not counting Mouse since we never see the Pride Demon form there), 1 from Awakening. Then 2 named Pride Demons in DA2 (which should have had unique appearance given their power and plot importance), and then the genric one on the docks in the end game. Where are the remaining 4 (not counting the DLC)? 

• A pride demon, named Wryme, is confronted during the quest Night Terrors.
• A second one by the name of Audacity is fought during the quest "A New Path".
• A third one, named Hybris, is encountered at the last stage of the side quest The Awiergan Scrolls: Pride Unbound.
• An unnamed one is fought on the Docks during the quest The Last Straw in conjunction with a blood mage and many shades. This encounter is not optional.
• Two can be fought simultaneously in The Last Straw in the Templar Halls, along with several shades.
• A dead pride demon can be seen amongst the demon and abomination corpses in the hallway with Sandal during The Last Straw.
• Each seal in the Legacy
  DLC is guarded by a Pride Demon of each variant. The first seal is
  guarded by the fire variant, the second by the common variant, and the
  last by the dark variant.

---taken from the DA Wiki Pride Demon page.

Modifié par eluvianix, 10 novembre 2013 - 11:19 .

[Han Shot First]

If they were going to run with a male counterpart, I'd rather they based him on the god Pan or Satyrs.





The Satyrs were creatures that inhabited woodlands in Greek mythology. They were the companions of the god Pan, as well as companions of Dionysus, god of wine, madness, and ecstasy. As companions of Dionysus they were lovers of wine and women, associated with drunken revelry and uncontrolled lusts. They were especially fond of nymphs (beautiful nature spirits) whom they would often pursue or seek to capture. They were also fond of music, dancing, or any form of merriment, and were often depicted in artwork as playing pipes, cymbals or other musical instruments. The Romans usually depicted them as having the head and torso of a man with a goat's legs and horns, the animal aspect thought to be a physical manifestation of their wild and insatiable appetites.

Assuming DA did introduce some form of male counterpart to the desire demons, I'd make them lesser companions/minions to the female entities in the same way that the satyrs were companions of Dionysus. And while they no one would mistake them for being sexy, I think that is why I'd prefer them to be used as a basis for some sort of male desire demon. Since the female ones sort of got sexy covered (in their own way), why not have the male aspect take on the more grotesque or bestial aspects of desire or sexuality.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 10 novembre 2013 - 11:22 .

[Hellion Rex]

You may not actually run into the ones in the Templar Halls, I sometimes completely miss them. They were in the area where you fought the Pride Demon in Feynriel's quest.

[The Xand]

Lol. It's funny how satyrs and centaurs have been recast as much more noble creatures in most fantasy settings. They used to just be horny rapists before. Lot of classical representations of them always featured them with...large active manhoods.

[Hellion Rex]

Han Shot First wrote...

If they were going to run with a male counterpart, I'd rather they based him on the god Pan or Satyrs.





The Satyrs were creatures that inhabited woodlands in Greek mythology. They were the companions of the god Pan, as well as companions of Dionysus, god of wine, madness, and ecstasy. As companions of Dionysus they were lovers of wine and women, associated with drunken revelry and uncontrolled lusts. They were especially fond of nymphs (beautiful nature spirits) whom they would often pursue or seek to capture. They were also fond of music, dancing, or any form of merriment, and were often depicted in artwork as playing pipes, cymbals or other musical instruments. The Romans usually depicted them as having the head and torso of a man with a goat's legs and horns, the animal aspect thought to be a physical manifestation of their wild and insatiable appetites.

Assuming DA did introduce some form of male counterpart to the desire demons, I'd make them lesser companions/minions to the female entities in the same way that the satyrs were companions of Dionysus.

Why should they be lesser to the females?

[Icy Magebane]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Well, based on what we know about the story, I assume we're going to be fighting a lot of demons. They also mentioned demons representing emotions we haven't encountered before... so... why not take this chance to upgrade the existing demons? Rage demons, maybe not, but desire demons are the second most powerful (that we know of). If you have 5 boss level desire demons, why not alter their appearances here and there? As much as I liked the Pride Demon model, it felt kind of generic after seeing it so often...

Aren't there only 3 Pride Demons in either game, therefore 6 Pride Demons encountered in total? 

Sorry, I was only giving an example, not trying to reflect the actual number we've seen.  I just thought that with all the demons we're likely to face, a good number of demonic bosses would be from the Pride or Desire category.  Assuming we even fight demon bosses...   Purely a hypotheical situation.

But yeah, I did think that model was kind of over-used... always the same tactics whenever it appeared and so on...

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 10 novembre 2013 - 11:23 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Well, based on what we know about the story, I assume we're going to be fighting a lot of demons. They also mentioned demons representing emotions we haven't encountered before... so... why not take this chance to upgrade the existing demons? Rage demons, maybe not, but desire demons are the second most powerful (that we know of). If you have 5 boss level desire demons, why not alter their appearances here and there? As much as I liked the Pride Demon model, it felt kind of generic after seeing it so often...

Aren't there only 3 Pride Demons in either game, therefore 6 Pride Demons encountered in total? 

3 in DAO
1 in Awakening
10 in DA 2, including the 3 from Legacy.

Okay I am hard pressed recalling that many. I can recall 2 from Origins (not counting Mouse since we never see the Pride Demon form there), 1 from Awakening. Then 2 named Pride Demons in DA2 (which should have had unique appearance given their power and plot importance), and then the genric one on the docks in the end game. Where are the remaining 4 (not counting the DLC)? 

• A pride demon, named Wryme, is confronted during the quest Night Terrors.
• A second one by the name of Audacity is fought during the quest "A New Path".
• A third one, named Hybris, is encountered at the last stage of the side quest The Awiergan Scrolls: Pride Unbound.
• An unnamed one is fought on the Docks during the quest The Last Straw in conjunction with a blood mage and many shades. This encounter is not optional.
• Two can be fought simultaneously in The Last Straw in the Templar Halls, along with several shades.
• A dead pride demon can be seen amongst the demon and abomination corpses in the hallway with Sandal during The Last Straw.
• Each seal in the Legacy
  DLC is guarded by a Pride Demon of each variant. The first seal is
  guarded by the fire variant, the second by the common variant, and the
  last by the dark variant.

---taken from the DA Wiki Pride Demon page.

Ah yes, it was Audacity I had forgotten. I usually forget the nameless enemies we slay the second they lie dead. But Wryme, Audacity and Hybris were all deserving of their own unique model.
Basically my rule of thumb regarding game is: If you think the character is worthy of a unique name, then tehy are worthy of a unique character model aswell. Or at least a modified character model (and that means beyond a colour palette swap).

[EmperorSahlertz]

Icy Magebane wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Well, based on what we know about the story, I assume we're going to be fighting a lot of demons. They also mentioned demons representing emotions we haven't encountered before... so... why not take this chance to upgrade the existing demons? Rage demons, maybe not, but desire demons are the second most powerful (that we know of). If you have 5 boss level desire demons, why not alter their appearances here and there? As much as I liked the Pride Demon model, it felt kind of generic after seeing it so often...

Aren't there only 3 Pride Demons in either game, therefore 6 Pride Demons encountered in total? 

Sorry, I was only giving an example, not trying to reflect the actual number we've seen.  I just thought that with all the demons we're likely to face, a good number of demonic bosses would be from the Pride or Desire category.  Assuming we even fight demon bosses...   Purely a hypotheical situation.

But yeah, I did think that model was kind of over-used... always the same tactics whenever it appeared and so on...

Yeah, the real problem with the Pride Demons were that not only was the model reused, but they had the exact same skillset. That doesn't really set them apart. Wryme was suppsoed to be the most powerful Pride Demon in existance (probably just a prideful boast from a Pride Demon), but he was no different from any of the others, except he had a green hue to him...

[Han Shot First]

eluvianix wrote...

Why should they be lesser to the females?

Its been awhile IIRC I believe the desire demons always take a female aspect. If that's the case rather than retcon the lore Id rather make them lesser fade spirts corrupted or created by the desire demons.

As an interesting bit of trivia, the popular depiction of demons as horned creatures with a goat-like lower half in European cultures is thought to originate with Pan and Satyrs. In effect the Christians turned pagan Greek and Roman mythological creatures into demons.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 10 novembre 2013 - 11:29 .

[Hellion Rex]

@Emperor, I completely agree. If the demon has some major role to play in the story, then they should very much have their very own unique model. I actually thought the Pride Demon from Legends looked pretty cool. While somewhat similar, it was still very different.

Modifié par eluvianix, 10 novembre 2013 - 11:32 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The next game should only have male Desire Demons. *nod*

When questioned by male PCs as to why it isn't female, it can just smirk, wink and say, "I think you know..."

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Well, based on what we know about the story, I assume we're going to be fighting a lot of demons. They also mentioned demons representing emotions we haven't encountered before... so... why not take this chance to upgrade the existing demons? Rage demons, maybe not, but desire demons are the second most powerful (that we know of). If you have 5 boss level desire demons, why not alter their appearances here and there? As much as I liked the Pride Demon model, it felt kind of generic after seeing it so often...

Aren't there only 3 Pride Demons in either game, therefore 6 Pride Demons encountered in total? 

Sorry, I was only giving an example, not trying to reflect the actual number we've seen.  I just thought that with all the demons we're likely to face, a good number of demonic bosses would be from the Pride or Desire category.  Assuming we even fight demon bosses...   Purely a hypotheical situation.

But yeah, I did think that model was kind of over-used... always the same tactics whenever it appeared and so on...

Yeah, the real problem with the Pride Demons were that not only was the model reused, but they had the exact same skillset. That doesn't really set them apart. Wryme was suppsoed to be the most powerful Pride Demon in existance (probably just a prideful boast from a Pride Demon), but he was no different from any of the others, except he had a green hue to him...

I thought he looked pretty purple. The Baroness however was of the dark green hue. The wiki tries to find some distinction between the two colors, claiming that the dark green ones are stronger.

[Hellion Rex]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The next game should only have male Desire Demons. *nod*

When questioned by male PCs as to why it isn't female, it can just smirk, wink and say, "I think you know..."

Ha! That made me cackle.
My male Inquisitor approves.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

It just gets rather tiring seeing the super sexualized demons with big boobs and barely any clothing again and again.

Oh without a doubt. Had the desire demon initially been of male appearance, the argument would however still be the same.

Personally I'd have prefered that tehy went with a competely androgenous appearance. Imagine Slaanesh from Warhammer 40k/Fantasy. Only such an appearance would truly capture the perversion that is a Desire Demon.

Is Warhammer that good? I have been hearing about it a lot lately, and I am curious as to whether I should check it out.