306 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexanderCousland]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...
It's only a priority for people whom, for whatever reason, dont feel normal.

They don't feel normal because they're not presented as normal, hence the need to change popular perception.

Cool. Do it.  

[Hellion Rex]

Star fury wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Star fury wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

TurretSyndrome wrote...

I too don't mind others having the option to see the version of the Desire demon they want, but how would you make it work?

I suppose you could an option at the character creation screen which would let you pick a preference, after picking your gender. This might involve a bit of work on the developers' side, but then again, Bioware has been trying to make everyone with any preference happy.

Having said that, I definitely do not want to see naked male desire demons in the game at random. *shivers*

I think people are focusing to much on a possible one time encounter where you might have a dialogue with one.

That, I think, is pretty much resolved :

1) Monitor the characters the players are flirting with.

2) Add two Desire Demon in the encounter.

3) Only female flirting : two female demons . Only male flirting : two male demons. Female and male flirting : one male, one female. Everyone is happy.

The rest of the game there would be just random alteration between the two variaties.Regarding the looks of the possible "naked male desire demons" - I think that something like the picture from my original post is a pretty good compromise.

Not going to happen cause it's a needless timesink. Demons don't have genders.

Mhmm, and yet we still have a hyper sexualized desire demon that for all intents and purposes appears to be female.

Yes, problem?

I am trying to understand your need to point out that demons have no genders when the desire demon pretty much defeats that notion.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
I await your exposition with bated breath.

Everything related to creating a good game, selling that game, and adding to that game post-release has priority over Bioware sorting out whatever you think is wrong with media portrayals of something or another. It's a fantasy RPG, not some lecture about IRL issues.

[Vulpe]

FreshIstay wrote...

It's only a priority for people whom, for whatever reason, dont feel normal.

Why do some of you guys thing only at the sexual side of the ideea. There are some people, like myself, that want a little variety in the game. Also, I find it strange that a demon that should represent desire covers less than half of it. I would be pretty happy if they introduced a incubus like skin or at least redesign it to be more androginous (like Desire from "The Sandman" comics or Slaneesh from Warhammer ) - it would fit better with the concept behind it.

And for the guys saying that the ideea of a male Desire Demon is disturbing - I think that's the whole point. I , as a straight male, found the female Desire Demon pretty disturbing. Why ? Maybe it's just me or maybe they intended in making it disturbing for some of the fans. Let's not forget the subtle Pride Demon like voice behind the female one. Still gives me the creeps. 

Oh, and mate... try to think twice before posting.That's not a very good choice of words. Some people might find your statement a little insulting.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 11 novembre 2013 - 10:27 .

[TurretSyndrome]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Does that mean you would support a theoretical future removal of the desire demon as we know them to look today?

I wouldn't support removal of anything unless it's actually offensive to somebody. I'd only have a problem with it if the female version was removed and simply replaced with a male one as a solution.

[Fredward]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
I await your exposition with bated breath.

Everything related to creating a good game, selling that game, and adding to that game post-release has priority over Bioware sorting out whatever you think is wrong with media portrayals of something or another. It's a fantasy RPG, not some lecture about IRL issues.

-blink- Evidently we're talking about different things. I thought you meant that the LGBT community shouldn't be focused on changing what the "norm" entails in modern media. Since that was what I was talking about. Although I'd imagine Bioware has the right to make their priorities whatever they want them to be.

[Kidd]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Does that mean you would support a theoretical future removal of the desire demon as we know them to look today?

I wouldn't support removal of anything unless it's actually offensive to somebody. I'd only have a problem with it if the female version was removed and simply replaced with a male one as a solution.

Nobody is talking about replacing. We're simply saying there should be both kinds. It'd be sad to remove something that has been part of the setting so far. So we agree then? =)

[AlexanderCousland]

JulianWellpit wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

It's only a priority for people whom, for whatever reason, dont feel normal.

Why do some of you guys thing only at the sexual side of the ideea. There are some people, like myself, that want a little variety in the game. Also, I find it strange that a demon that should represent desire covers less than half of it. I would be pretty happy if they introduced a incubus like skin or at least redesign it to be more androginous (like Desire from "The Sandman" comics or Slaneesh from Warhammer ) - it would fit better with the concept behind it.

And for the guys saying that the ideea of a male Desire Demon is disturbing - I think that's the whole point. I , as a straight male, found the female Desire Demon pretty disturbing. Why ? Maybe it's just me or maybe they intended in making it disturbing for some of the fans. Let's not forget the subtle Pride Demon like voice behind the female one. Still gives me the creeps. 

Oh, and mate... try to think twice before posting.That's not a very good choice of words. Some people might find your statement a little insulting.

Whoa. Slow down grasshopper. 
I really dont care what the Demon looks like,  A New Demon in general is fine with me.
And...."Oh mate"... the only reason for someone to be insulted by my statement is if they dont feel normal...which is a personal issue.

[TurretSyndrome]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Nobody is talking about replacing. We're simply saying there should be both kinds. It'd be sad to remove something that has been part of the setting so far. So we agree then? =)

Both kinds should be treated fairly, we agree on that. But one side shouldn't push for the removal of something, the other likes, just because what they prefer was not included. I'm against that, that's all I'm saying.

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 11 novembre 2013 - 10:47 .

[Fredward]

FreshIstay wrote...
Whoa. Slow down grasshopper. 
I really dont care what the Demon looks like,  A New Demon in general is fine with me.
And...."Oh mate"... the only reason for someone to be insulted by my statement is if they dont feel normal...which is a personal issue influenced by external factors*.

Fixed that for yah. Since we don't live in a vacuum and Skinner would have gone all apoplectic if you implied the environment has no impact on an individual.

[Vulpe]

FreshIstay wrote...

Whoa. Slow down grasshopper. 
I really dont care what the Demon looks like,  A New Demon in general is fine with me.
And...."Oh mate"... the only reason for someone to be insulted by my statement is if they dont feel normal...which is a personal issue.

Just saying. Some people might not think the way you do.Extra attention when expressing ourselves wouldn't hurt.

Now let's not turn this in an internet fight. I haven't started any of those and I still don't plan to. Let's try our best and remain civilized. Sorry if any of my comments where insulting in any way. I do seem to fall prey to the limitations text messages  present ( no ability to nuance/tone your expressions, to be more precise ) and the limitations of my own vocabulary (not my first language ). So if any of my comments sounded aggresive or out of place to you or anyone who read them, I'm sorry.

EDIT

TurretSyndrome wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Nobody is talking about replacing. We're simply saying there should be both kinds. It'd be sad to remove something that has been part of the setting so far. So we agree then? =)

Both kinds should be treated fairly, we agree on that. But one side shouldn't push for the removal of something, the other likes, just because what they prefer was not included. I'm against that, that's all I'm saying.

As KiddDaBeauty said, non of us proposed the exclusion of the female Desire Demon. We porposed the introduction of a male variant. The closest we've comend to a "removal" was the proposition of designing the current one in a more androginous way to better fit its concept. That would upset some people, so the first proposition would be the best course to keep people happy ( at least most of them ).

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 11 novembre 2013 - 10:57 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...
Whoa. Slow down grasshopper. 
I really dont care what the Demon looks like,  A New Demon in general is fine with me.
And...."Oh mate"... the only reason for someone to be insulted by my statement is if they dont feel normal...which is a personal issue influenced by external factors*.

Fixed that for yah. Since we don't live in a vacuum and Skinner would have gone all apoplectic if you implied the environment has no impact on an individual.

Ah. The blame must be placed somewhere. So hey, The next time you want to "fix" my statement, don't.

[Fredward]

FreshIstay wrote...
Ah. The blame must be placed somewhere. So hey, The next time you want to "fix" my statement, don't.

I'd wind up doing nothing else so mkay.

[TurretSyndrome]

JulianWellpit wrote...

As KiddDaBeauty said, non of us proposed the exclusion of the female Desire Demon. We porposed the introduction of a male variant. The closest we've comend to a "removal" was the proposition of designing the current one in a more androginous way to better fit it's concept. That would upset some people, so the first proposition would be the best course to keep people happy ( at least most of them ).

I never said or assumed that people are proposing something ike that. I was asked mby KidddDabeauty if I would support such a thing, and that's what I was replying to. 

[Vulpe]

 Good . Just wanted to make it clear for the people who possibly didn't follow the whole thread.

[Kidd]

JulianWellpit wrote...

As KiddDaBeauty said, non of us proposed the exclusion of the female Desire Demon. We porposed the introduction of a male variant. The closest we've comend to a "removal" was the proposition of designing the current one in a more androginous way to better fit its concept. That would upset some people, so the first proposition would be the best course to keep people happy ( at least most of them ).

Isn't it already said in lore any way that desire demons appear in sexually dimorphic looks? As in, they pick what they want to look like at any given time, not that they are truly gendered.

TurretSyndrome wrote...

I never said or assumed that people are proposing something ike that. I was asked mby KidddDabeauty if I would support such a thing, and that's what I was replying to. 

True, all I did was play mental gymnastics with you for a bit to expose you to another point of view.

You originally said you didn't want to see naked men. So I asked if you sympathised with those who do not appreciate the female form. Since you do, I proposed the removal of desire demons altogether since that would mean nobody would see creatures looking like naked people. And as you were opposed to that, we ended up at the spot where equal opportunity is the best way to go.

So basically, the dance went according to my plan and you never indeed advocated for the removal of anything. All I wanted to do was open your eyes to how others feel differently from you and how it'd be better if we all got what we wanted =) To which you seem to agree, now.

On a last note that sounds quite a bit less cackling; Maker's breath, my name now went into all out into a full quadruple D. Having a double D in my original name is odd enough, turned crazy as I registered a random suffix to my EA account name, and now I've powered up into full quadruple D mode. I sure screwed up naming myself considering how difficult my name seems to be to spell, didn't I? xD

[TurretSyndrome]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

So basically, the dance went according to my plan and you never indeed advocated for the removal of anything. All I wanted to do was open your eyes to how others feel differently from you and how it'd be better if we all got what we wanted =) To which you seem to agree, now.

Well then, I'll make it clear for you. I have always been one for everyone treated equally and fairly. There was nothing you could say or do, to open my eyes to something that I already didn't feel or know. Everything I said in this thread echoes the fact that I very well understand how others, whose preferences differ from mine, feel, and that I respect them. So if that's what you were trying to achieve, well, you just wasted your time. 

So basically, you were poking the wrong guy.

[Icy Magebane]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

As KiddDaBeauty said, non of us proposed the exclusion of the female Desire Demon. We porposed the introduction of a male variant. The closest we've comend to a "removal" was the proposition of designing the current one in a more androginous way to better fit its concept. That would upset some people, so the first proposition would be the best course to keep people happy ( at least most of them ).

Isn't it already said in lore any way that desire demons appear in sexually dimorphic looks? As in, they pick what they want to look like at any given time, not that they are truly gendered.

Demons don't reproduce sexually, so no, they don't have a predetermined gender.

[animedreamer]

 i dont think demons in the da universe have genders..thats humanizing them too much for DA standards. Fade Creatures are just creatures, spirits and demons respectfully, but not boy girl.

Also while the art work is nice, Why give it weapons? Do demons need weapons? Does a Desire Demon really need to be displaying a weapon? That's not very desirable if you ask me.

Modifié par animedreamer, 11 novembre 2013 - 02:59 .

[General TSAR]

Waste of resources to pander to a small demographic, but that's just my opinion.

[Vulpe]

animedreamer wrote...

 i dont think demons in the da universe have genders..thats humanizing them too much for DA standards. Fade Creatures are just creatures, spirits and demons respectfully, but not boy girl.

Also while the art work is nice, Why give it weapons? Do demons need weapons? Does a Desire Demon really need to be displaying a weapon? That's not very desirable if you ask me.

Desire Demons are indeed , like the rest of the demonic mob, genderless.The only particulaity they present is that beeing gender amorphic, they can assume forms that better suits it's purpose and victim ( be it more feminine or masculine). Think of the Sloth Demons. They can assume any form they want. Desire Demons have a little more limited morphing capability that permites them to look more like a woman or like a man, depending on how they want to appear. By presenting them only as a female they don't really cover that aspect. 

As for the artwork - I think I mentioned that it would be good if they introduce something like this, without the ridiculous sized blades ( read the original post with a little more attention ). It was the best artwork I could find and I think most of us can agree that it suits the DA setting (if you get rid of the blades).

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 11 novembre 2013 - 04:58 .

[Plaintiff]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
I await your exposition with bated breath.

Everything related to creating a good game, selling that game, and adding to that game post-release has priority over Bioware sorting out whatever you think is wrong with media portrayals of something or another. It's a fantasy RPG, not some lecture about IRL issues.

How any media product treats 'IRL issues' is critical to whether or not I regard it as a 'good' anything.

But wait, I forgot; it doesn't matter if other people get butthurt about something. Only if Inquisitor Recon does.

[animedreamer]

The Sin wrote...

Bottom line is that Desire, Rage, Sloth, Pride, Despair...They are not sexually dimorphic. They are universal. So their designs should reflect that.

?? O_o that is not one of the 7 deadly sins, it really doesn't belong within the hierarchy. I heard fans trying to event it as a new demon before on another thread, but I'd BioWare keep to the originally trope than try and get and fanon.

[xBelzerger]

Sure, it would be great to have a bit of variety, especially since it's the 3rd game and this one will be more fade/demon oriented.

[Medhia Nox]

If we were talking about changing the desire demon to a more androgynous - sexless - form in it's true form, then I would totally be for that.

As it is - the current desire demon's true form caters to the lowest common denominator (though likely the highest market) as far as the concept of "desire" goes.

Though it's actions (certainly the most varied depiction in game) show much greater nuance.