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[Legion of 1337]

So I've been lurking around here sometimes but haven't posted barely at all for a while. If this is old news forgive me but it occurred to me recently.

I used to harp on Drew Karpshin's original idea of the Reapers being some kind of space Cthulu trying to stop Dark Energy from causing the heat death of the universe or whatever. But the more I think about it, the more I think "You know what, that works." In ME1 the Reapers themselves stated their very existence and nature was beyond the comprehension of organic minds. Making them into space Cthulu, using unseen, imcomprehensible methods to supposedly fight the laws of physics seems impossible to us and I guarantee everyone would have criticized it as stupid if they used that ending, but it makes sense if you think of it in a Lovecraftian sense. And the Reapers always were a bit Lovecraftian, at least until ME3 where they turned out to just be a bunch of brainwashed drones for a mis-programmed AI. Way to kill the suspense guys.

Personnally I'm a fan of Lovecraft so I wouldn't mind a kind of dillema at the end where if you act on your ignorant, organic impulse and destroy the Reapers, you may doom the entire universe at some point far beyond your lifetime; but if you submit to the Reapers' motives, they kill you and everyone else for the sake of saving existence. It's a good dilemma, even if most people would just pick the "good" ending anyway.

[Deverz]

I actually think Drew's idea sounds worse.

[David7204]

Probably not.

[KaiserShep]

There's no telling how Drew's concept would've played out in the end, because it was still a rough draft when the dark energy plot's resolution was leaked, and would likely have gone through a few revisions as the story developed. As it was, however, I don't think it would've been. I think it would probably have been worse.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 10 novembre 2013 - 11:54 .

[Argentoid]

No. And Drew Karpyshyn is completely overrated. Read his books, you'll see. Mass Effect 1 has a lot of faults in terms of story, inconsistences, etc.

KaiserShep wrote...

There's no telling how Drew's concept would've played out in the end, because it was still a rough draft when the dark energy plot's resolution was leaked. As it was, however, I don't think it would've been. I think it would probably have been worse.

Leak? What leak? You mean the leaked script? The original endings were always there. Anyway, it's just plain bad:

"The Reapers created the Mass Relays. The Mass Relays produce Dark Energy polution/crap/heat/smog/magic. The Reapers are trying to find a solution for the Dark Energy problem. The Reapers created the problem they were trying to solve HURR HURR DURR DURR"

The Reapers look more retarded this way.

Modifié par Argentoid, 10 novembre 2013 - 11:57 .

[Linkenski]

If the what-if scenario also includes the game being rushed and Drew locking himself up in a room with Casey to write it out, I think it would be better. I've read all of those foundation comics by Mac as well as the first issue of Redemption and I've taken note of which stages in ME3 and what characters were written by him, as well as what characters and plot-points Drew made (from those we know) in ME1+ME2. I have to say that I think Drew is definitely the smarter guy and the more creative mind from what I can tell. Just compare his writing in his novels to the writing by Mac in his comics. It's obviously like comparing apples to pear fruits but I think there's still decisive evidence that shows Drew is a better writer, both in terms of characterization, fluency in language and plot-writing.

The dark energy plot he revealed was a rough idea and like the "Synthetics vs. Organics" plot it would change shape over the course of writing ME3 so it would fit better to the rest they put in the game.

It's hard to compare the two plot ideas because undoubtedly ME3 in its entirety would've been so vastly different if Karpyshyn was on board for the whole game.

[eyezonlyii]

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't know. The main thing I think is lost without Drew's dark energy ideas is the importance of biotics to organic evolution. It was a central theme at one point. In the new scheme, evolution is totally anchored on technology (and AI) alone. If they could have still played up biotics more in the current scheme, I probably wouldn't care.

the problem with this is how biotics are created. it takes an externl source 100% of the time to create a biotic anyting except Asari as far as we know. With safety precautions in place, the liklihood of producing a viable biotic generation becomes more and more slim. That is unless biotics pass eezo node through dna...that would be an interesting revelation.

[Linkenski]

Not to go off-topic, but I found an interview from 2009 with Mac Walters where he says they were "trying to delve into themes about the relationship between organics and synthetics" in ME2, and I was like... was that theme ever present in that game?

Makes me wonder if it really WAS the longtime goal for the MEU storyline.

[Deathsaurer]

It was if you kept Legion. That's like the main thing you talk to him about between missions.

[Linkenski]

Yeah, but that's like... the only point and I did think of that. His conversations as well as that side-mission in ME1 with the rogue-money-grub-AI or whatever it was contain some of the most interesting conversations in retrospect to the ME3 ending. I really didn't think much of it until after ME3's ending told me "This is now the main theme, and it was all along".

It would've been cool if you'd actually felt like it had been there all along, but it's just so far away and few inbetween in ME1 and ME2.

[Deathsaurer]

Yeah making that stuff optional was... a mistake. I'd never say it's the main theme, I'd never say there is a main theme. It's there subtly in your face the entire time but you actually have to go looking to explore it in any depth. Otherwise it's just background noise.

[thehomeworld]

The theory is out there sure but considering the derp we got of, to stop computers from eating you we decided to send computers to eat you I think with careful explaining in ME2 and ME3 it could've worked out well considering all the hints of dark energy since ME.

I think that the one ending of killing off all humanity to save the galaxy was a huge leap in logic but if they somehow did more then hint at why humans would be the perfect thing for this beyond they're special the leap could've been made less great and just long.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 11 novembre 2013 - 02:13 .

[kobayashi-maru]

As an idea it was solid but doubt it would have worked with ME because as much as current endings are difficult to write sequel to, the Drew ending would have shut down entire universe (or given a timeline to destruction so life pointless). As ending to a novel it would be fine but not in a franchise.

[dreamgazer]

Nope. Arguably worse, in fact.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You still end up with the fact that the reapers were machines. Someone made them. They were synthetics. So who made them? Yet the first conversation with Sovereign is it's a big giant Cthulhu monster "We have no beginning. We have no end. We are.... infinite....... You exist because we allow it. You will end because we demand it........ Organic life is blah blah blah blah"

And Humans are suddenly "the perfect genetic material to process dark energy?" Do you know how much of the universe is dark energy? Do you know how much a 2 km reaper is going to process? Do you really think a 2 km reaper made from humans is going to save the galaxy? Do you know how much I'm going to roll on the floor laughing as I destroy your asses? The more you look at the dark energy plot the more stupid it looks.

I don't need to know why they're doing what they're doing. I just need to know one thing... where they are.

This was one case where explaining why the reapers were even in the galaxy was a mistake. When you start explaining things, sometimes you open a can of worms. The only way to re-can them is to get a bigger can.

[ruggly]

No.

[Deathsaurer]

Well to be fair there was no assurance the Human Reaper would save the galaxy. It was a saving throw, a desperate last attempt. Still sounds silly though.

[ShadowLordXII]

Good or bad, at least it would fit the Genre and Central Conflict of the series. Plus with all of the hints and foreshadowing that was in the first two games, it wouldn't come out of nowhere.

It would need some tweaking, but the Dark Energy Ending would be great. Way better than Starchild and all of his attendant headaches.

[Deathsaurer]

All the hints in the first 2 games? I remember 3, all in ME2.

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
This was one case where explaining why the reapers were even in the galaxy was a mistake. When you start explaining things, sometimes you open a can of worms. The only way to re-can them is to get a bigger can.

So it's a Wile E. Coyote kind of thing? As long as we don't realize ME always sucked we don't go splat?

[Argentoid]

Deathsaurer wrote...

Well to be fair there was no assurance the Human Reaper would save the galaxy. It was a saving throw, a desperate last attempt. Still sounds silly though.

I can picture everyone's reaction: 

"Drew Karpyshyn sucks! Mac Walters should have been the lead writer! He wrote Wrex and Garrus am i rite guyz?"

[GreyLycanTrope]

They could have done a lot with dark energy aside from it being Reaper pollution I felt. With a name like Mass Effect and it being the centerpiece of just about every technology in the universe I kinda found it fitting to trying something in that direction. As far as the current form of it though I'm not too fond of the Dark Energy Plot.