248 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

I had zero problem with Tallis or Dey as Tallis. No problem at all. I didn't like the fact that the player couldn't do anything to resolve things in a better fashion but Tallis was fine. Chobot on the other hand was bad. Bad voice acting., bad idea, pure fan service if you ask me.,

[HiroVoid]

Where exactly do you post that you've been getting hate mail for it anyway? I certainly haven't seen topics on Tallis here for about a month, and I don't believe I remember posts such as yours going around.

[The Xand]

I'm tempted to start one now. Felicia Day annoys the ****** out of me. Ofc she was a Qunari elf in Dragon Age, because bogstandard Dalish are just far too mainstream and not quirky enough. She plays the same character in everything.

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 03:52 .

[AlexanderCousland]

motomotogirl wrote...

People, especially people on the internet, are vicious towards women who are in the spotlight (actors, musicians, etc.). A pretty woman is called a you-know-what and is accused of only getting by on her looks. A less attractive woman is called fat, ugly, or stupid. 

Then people make themselves feel better about their own vitriolic responses by claiming that "sex sells" and "that's just how it is" and "you should learn to face reality."

In other news...

There are legitmate reasons to dislike Tallis, and to dislike Felicia Day's execution of the roll or even involvement in the franchise. These reasons can be voiced without insulting Day... but they so rarely are. In fact there's so much hate being spewed towards her that I choose not to voice my only dislike of the character anymore. Luckily, Felicia Day seems like a VERY tough and cool girl, and hopefully is either unaware of the hate or is smartly letting it roll of her back.

Sometimes "vicious" or "hate" can be confused with crticism, and its not necessarily because they are Women in the spotlight. A pretty woman does get by on her looks, If said pretty Woman is also Talented it's only an added bonus. And a "Less attractive" Woman probably means ugly or fat. Stupid applies to everyone, I dont think that's a gender thing. I dont think it's insulting to say you dont appreciate someone's work, ( I think Tallis I a horrible character, and I don't find her attractive like some men do) Art is made to be enjoyed and criticized equally. I also think a good actress/actor who played themselves could do really well...it just depends on execution.

Oh...and I liked Chobot and "Dat Ass":police:

Modifié par FreshIstay, 11 novembre 2013 - 03:54 .

[The Xand]

I refuse to be labelled a rabid anti-feminist just because I have a particular dislike of one hackneyed actress. I can't stand Russel Brand either because he's a pretentious arsepart, but that doesn't mean I hate all men.

[Plaintiff]

Because they'll get paid.

If you're going to make a career as a public figure, then you should be able to face criticism. Do you think professional actresses scour the internet for negative comments and then cry themselves to sleep over them?

[The Xand]

Plaintiff wrote...

Because they'll get paid.

If you're going to make a career as a public figure, then you should be able to face criticism. Do you think professional actresses scour the internet for negative comments and then cry themselves to sleep over them?

If I ever became famous I probably would, but that's probably because I'm chock full of interesting undiagnosed mental disorders.

[celestial_emperor]

Sorry, I totally forgot about the Yvonne/Miranda. Sorry folks for that omission. Yvonne probably had the best results as a woman from having her appearance channeled into a Bioware game.

I just ended up mentioning the ones that REALLY didn't work out.

But asking the question has generally brought out some really good conversation so far. Thanks everyone!

[Hex of Hell]

celestial_emperor wrote...

My question is, oh forum watching fans, can you give any reason why a woman who's interesting in appearing in the video game industry would want their visage in Inquisition or any future Bioware game?

I think it would be a cool way to get more of a connection to the character, like you've become the character, but the character has also become you.Particularly if, in the future, they were to use motion capture for cutscenes as other games have done. Then you can really give a more visceral, physical performance.

FreshIstay wrote...

A pretty woman does get by on her looks, If said pretty Woman is also Talented it's only an added bonus.

... Did you really just say that?

Modifié par Captain Hex, 11 novembre 2013 - 04:07 .

[sandalisthemaker]

THIS THREAD IS GETTIN' SEXIST

[celestial_emperor]

Plaintiff wrote...

Because they'll get paid.

If you're going to make a career as a public figure, then you should be able to face criticism. Do you think professional actresses scour the internet for negative comments and then cry themselves to sleep over them?

Um, they don't have to "look" for criticism. People on the internet who have problems with figures can very effectively reach out and really make people miserable, male or female. Anita Sarkeesian is probably the biggest example of how pernicious online assaults can get.

[The Xand]

Captain Hex wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

A pretty woman does get by on her looks, If said pretty Woman is also Talented it's only an added bonus.

... Did you really just say that?

If they're an actor then yeh, it helps. Same applies to guys as well though. Normal men and women like seeing beautiful men and women onscreen because that's what we expect our heroes and heroines to look like. Obviously there's parts for uggos and normies to play as well ofc. Some of the best actors become famous because of how odd they look, or because they just slide easily into certain roles. Like Felicia Day always playing the nerdy quirky cute chick.

celestial_emperor wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Because they'll get paid.

If
you're going to make a career as a public figure, then you should be
able to face criticism. Do you think professional actresses scour the
internet for negative comments and then cry themselves to sleep over
them?

Um, they don't have to "look" for criticism.
People on the internet who have problems with figures can very
effectively reach out and really make people miserable, male or female.
Anita Sarkeesian is probably the biggest example of how pernicious
online assaults can get.

She did go out of her way to rile people up over trivialities. She was basically making money by telling everyone how sexist they are and seems the sort to take offense where none was meant.

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 04:12 .

[Plaintiff]

celestial_emperor wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Because they'll get paid.

If you're going to make a career as a public figure, then you should be able to face criticism. Do you think professional actresses scour the internet for negative comments and then cry themselves to sleep over them?

Um, they don't have to "look" for criticism. People on the internet who have problems with figures can very effectively reach out and really make people miserable, male or female. Anita Sarkeesian is probably the biggest example of how pernicious online assaults can get.

Yeah, and Anita faced the criticism and kept doing what she's doing.

Because that's what being a public figure means. I'm not saying abuse, especially to that level, is in any way acceptable, I'm saying that it's something all public figures have had to cope with, even Felicia Day. The simple fact of the matter is that not everyone is going to like all your work, and they aren't going to be polite about it.

[Star fury]

celestial_emperor wrote...
Why would anyone in the Video game/electronic industry want to appear looking like themselves in a Bioware game ever again? 

The prospects would seem to be pretty miserable!
Jessica Chobot essentially retired from electronic media because of the nearly endless vitrolic assault from fans who decided that it was her fault that they didn't like Diana Allers. (Is it really her fault that the Chobot character was written like that? She didn't write it herself)

Bull****. On November 4, 2013 Chobot began work as the main host of Nerdist News, a new daily show on Nerdist currently airing Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays. From wikipedia.

Also I can hardly take seriously a chick who's famous for licking PSP. And her Allers voiceover was so atrocious, it gives me cancer.

celestial_emperor wrote...
Felicia Day's character, Tallis, is routinely lambasted by fans of Dragon Age here on this forum because people don't like how she threatened their Hawke, shoehorned herself into the plot. (I feel that's a little unfair because they were trying to get Redemption fans into coming over to Dragon Age II, and that story didn't necessarilly lead to Dragon Age 2, that story was started independently of Bioware and then they tried to mash it together, with mixed success)

My question is, oh forum watching fans, can you give any reason why a woman who's interesting in appearing in the video game industry would want their visage in Inquisition or any future Bioware game?

You should ask one question - why people don't have problem with Felicia Day in Fallout: New Vegas. She made a decent voiceover of Veronica there. On the other hand, Tallis was a perfect example of Mary Sue, so her DLC looked like bad DA fanfic. And Felicia Day chose a storyline of the "mark of assassin".

P.S. It was already mentioned that people don't have problem with Yvonne Strahovski or Rana McAnear because they were excellent voicing their characters and both Miranda and Morinth were interesting.

Modifié par Star fury, 11 novembre 2013 - 04:18 .

[celestial_emperor]

HiroVoid wrote...

Where exactly do you post that you've been getting hate mail for it anyway? I certainly haven't seen topics on Tallis here for about a month, and I don't believe I remember posts such as yours going around.

Thanks HiroVoid, I was being rather facetious on that point. What I meant is that I feel that in general there's a lot of people on the forum in general who are really active in their dislike of Tallis,. And while there's many very valid reasons not to like Tallis; I wanted to focus on the small, loud minority of people on this forum who really dislike Felicia Day for forcing their favorite media to "focus" on her when she joins them or that she slides by on her appearance and therefore shouldn't be in a Dragon Age game.

[Plaintiff]

The Xand wrote...
She did go out of her way to rile people up over trivialities. She was basically making money by telling everyone how sexist they are and seems the sort to take offense where none was meant.

I don't think these issues are trivial at all. Anita doesn't tell people they're sexist for enjoying the games she critiques, she's just asking people to think harder about the sort of messages these games are sending with their portrayal of women.

I don't agree with everything she says, but her general position (that there is sexism in games and it needs to be recognised) is totally valid.

I wish someone would take a similar analytical approach to the portrayal of racial minorities and LGBT individuals. But first there'd have to actually be some of those characters in games.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 11 novembre 2013 - 04:24 .

[Star fury]

celestial_emperor wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Where exactly do you post that you've been getting hate mail for it anyway? I certainly haven't seen topics on Tallis here for about a month, and I don't believe I remember posts such as yours going around.

Thanks HiroVoid, I was being rather facetious on that point. What I meant is that I feel that in general there's a lot of people on the forum in general who are really active in their dislike of Tallis,. And while there's many very valid reasons not to like Tallis; I wanted to focus on the small, loud minority of people on this forum who really dislike Felicia Day for forcing their favorite media to "focus" on her when she joins them or that she slides by on her appearance and therefore shouldn't be in a Dragon Age game.

So actually you don't get hate mail for being a fan of Tallis. 

[The Xand]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Xand wrote...
She did go out of her way to rile people up over trivialities. She was basically making money by telling everyone how sexist they are and seems the sort to take offense where none was meant.

I don't think these issues are trivial at all. Anita doesn't tell people they're sexist for enjoying the games she critiques, she's just asking people to think harder about the sort of messages these games are sending with their portrayal of women.

I don't agree with everything she says, but her general position (that there is sexism in games and it needs to be recognised) is totally valid.

She's jumped on a popular bandwagon to make a career out of and to take offense on behalf of women everywhere.

The thing I've found about the more radical of feminists is that they're oddly sexist themselves, and not just against men. They seem to believe that women should be exactly like men to be truly equal, which is just absurd. Men and women do seem to have very different tastes because of their genders, but that doesn't mean we should try to stamp that out. Just let people be themselves. Uniformity is not equality.

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 04:26 .

[TEWR]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

THIS THREAD IS GETTIN' SEXIST

Sadly, that's hardly new to the BSN.

[The Xand]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

THIS THREAD IS GETTIN' SEXIST

Sadly, that's hardly new to the BSN.

Man up. Aha.

[GreyLycanTrope]

I really that prefer characters stand on their own regardless of the voice being provided. Garrus doesn't even look human and he's easily one of the most popular bioware characters ever. Throwing in someone actually known for face recognition is just asking for trouble as the concept is way too polarizing. The character suffers since gamers often don't feel like they're talking to an in-universe character but a celeb cameo who they're likely to never see again.

Not that I personally have much against Tallis I thought she was fun all things considered but well let's just say there's a reason you can make out with her and randomly bang Allers in ME3 and I don't much care for it.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 11 novembre 2013 - 04:47 .

[Plaintiff]

The Xand wrote...
She's jumped on a popular bandwagon to make a career out of and to take offense on behalf of women everywhere.

It couldn't be that she genuinely cares about the issue, could it.

If feminism is a "popular bandwagon", that actually indicates that there is a genuine problem with the way women are treated and portrayed.

The thing I've found about the more radical of feminists is that they're oddly sexist themselves, and not just against men. They seem to believe that women should be exactly like men to be truly equal, which is just absurd. Men and women do seem to have very different tastes because of their genders, but that doesn't mean we should try to stamp that out. Just let people be themselves. Uniformity is not equality.

Anita's not 'radical' by any means, her arguments are balanced, if not always correct. I'm not convinced that the 'radical feminist' who supposedly hates all men and calls for their castration is even a real thing. I've certainly never seen one. I think opponents of the feminist movement invented this character in order to discredit the feminist movement by making its advocates look insane.

There's no basis for the claim that men and women have inherently different tastes. The things we associate with specific genders are, in fact, largely arbitrary, and they change according to shifting social values. Pink was once regarded as a 'masculine' colour, for instance. And even if women did have inherently different tastes from men, that's not an excuse for the overwhelmingly negative portrayal of women in videogames. Especially since we know that women do play videogames, regardless of these supposedly different tastes.

Anita doesn't even argue that women should be like men. Rather, her stance is that the qualities we typically associate with femininity have value for both genders, and that they should be celebrated, rather than being disparaged as a weakness. She's just as critical of the videogame industry's portrayal of masculinity and how it harms men, even if it's not a particualr focus of her work.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 11 novembre 2013 - 04:40 .

[celestial_emperor]

Well...I guess I'm not so up on Internet news. Thank you Star fury for pointing out that Jessica Chobot is once again gainfully employed in doing internet media.

Um, to your further point about Veronica. Veronica is in a Bethesda game...that's not the question here. Bioware has a reputation of very prominent uses of celebrity characters and the female ones getting much more flak for it then male ones in some notable cases.

And that's the question here, before it starts walking off track again, why would they want to appear in a Bioware game? I don't think it's just about money, they have to be highly notable for producers to want them to appear as themselves in a game.

[celestial_emperor]

Plaintiff wrote...

Anita's not 'radical' by any means, her arguments are balanced, if not always correct. I'm not convinced that the 'radical feminist' who supposedly hates all men and calls for their castration is even a real thing. I've certainly never seen one. I think opponents of the feminist movement invented this character in order to discredit the feminist movement by making its advocates look insane.

There's no basis for the claim that men and women have inherently different tastes. The things we associate with specific genders are, in fact, largely arbitrary, and they change according to shifting social values. Pink was once regarded as a 'masculine' colour, for instance. And even if women did have inherently different tastes from men, that's not an excuse for the overwhelmingly negative portrayal of women in videogames. Especially since we know that women do play videogames, regardless of these supposedly different tastes.

Anita doesn't even argue that women should be like men. Rather, her stance is that the qualities we typically associate with femininity have value for both genders, and that they should be celebrated, rather than being disparaged as a weakness.

Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. Excellent points, Plaintiff.