248 réponses à ce sujet

[The Xand]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Xand wrote...
She's jumped on a popular bandwagon to make a career out of and to take offense on behalf of women everywhere.

It couldn't be that she genuinely cares about the issue, could it.

If feminism is a "popular bandwagon", that actually indicates that there is a genuine problem with the way women are treated and portrayed.

The thing I've found about the more radical of feminists is that they're oddly sexist themselves, and not just against men. They seem to believe that women should be exactly like men to be truly equal, which is just absurd. Men and women do seem to have very different tastes because of their genders, but that doesn't mean we should try to stamp that out. Just let people be themselves. Uniformity is not equality.

Anita's not 'radical' by any means, her arguments are balanced, if not always correct. I'm not convinced that the 'radical feminist' who supposedly hates all men and calls for their castration is even a real thing. I've certainly never seen one. I think opponents of the feminist movement invented this character in order to discredit the feminist movement by making its advocates look insane.

There's no basis for the claim that men and women have inherently different tastes. The things we associate with specific genders are, in fact, largely arbitrary, and they change according to shifting social values. Pink was once regarded as a 'masculine' colour, for instance. And even if women did have inherently different tastes from men, that's not an excuse for the overwhelmingly negative portrayal of women in videogames. Especially since we know that women do play videogames, regardless of these supposedly different tastes.

Anita doesn't even argue that women should be like men. Rather, her stance is that the qualities we typically associate with femininity have value for both genders, and that they should be celebrated, rather than being disparaged as a weakness. She's just as critical of the videogame industry's portrayal of masculinity and how it harms men, even if it's not a particualr focus of her work.

Uhuh. So what you're saying is that women have to change to better suit your vision of equality? To be more like you?

And don't misinterprety my use of the term "popular". It's popular because it's a noble cause, but in Western society it's not really an issue these days because women *are* treated equally. Equal votes, equal pay. Men can hardly be blamed for women developing their own unique tastes and preferences, even *gosh* daring to like the colour pink (which is far from universal ofc) or female magazines. Even in videogames they're treated as equals. Especially in videogames. There's nearly an overabundance of female heroines actually and to claim otherwise is demeaning and belittling to women. Perhaps you even view yourself as the dashing knight that will save them?

And fyi radical feminism *is* a thing, and it's every bit as imbalanced as you'd expect.

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:01 .

[sandalisthemaker]

The Xand wrote...
equal pay. 

nope

[In Exile]

The Xand wrote...

I refuse to be labelled a rabid anti-feminist just because I have a particular dislike of one hackneyed actress. I can't stand Russel Brand either because he's a pretentious arsepart, but that doesn't mean I hate all men.

You can refuse to be labelled all you want. But when you reduce a woman to her looks and insist that the only reason she got to where she is happens to be her physical appearance, and then go on about her lack of talent, just about no one will believe you. 

Just look at the example you picked: Russell Brand you happen to dislike because of his attitude, but Felicia Day you reduce to her looks as if her only reason for being was to titillate straight dudes. 

[The Xand]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

The Xand wrote...
equal pay. 

nope

Yes.

https://www.gov.uk/n...imum-wage-rates

You see any gender specific clause there? Me neither.

In Exile wrote...

The Xand wrote...

I refuse
to be labelled a rabid anti-feminist just because I have a particular
dislike of one hackneyed actress. I can't stand Russel Brand either
because he's a pretentious arsepart, but that doesn't mean I hate all
men.

You can refuse to be labelled all you want. But when
you reduce a woman to her looks and insist that the only reason she got
to where she is happens to be her physical appearance, and then go on
about her lack of talent, just about no one will believe you. 

Just
look at the example you picked: Russell Brand you happen to dislike
because of his attitude, but Felicia Day you reduce to her looks as if
her only reason for being was to titillate straight dudes. 

How telling that you yourself singled out her looks. I said it was because she's a hackneyed actress, ie she plays the same role in everything in addition to the cold hard fact that her popularity stems directly from the nerdgasms she induces in gamer males who see her as an object of desire; because everyone wants a quirky gamer girlfriend.

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:04 .

[TurretSyndrome]

Xand, you just doomed this thread.

[The Xand]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Xand, you just doomed this thread.

It is not this day!

[sandalisthemaker]

The Xand wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

The Xand wrote...
equal pay. 

nope

Yes.

https://www.gov.uk/n...imum-wage-rates

You see any gender specific clause there? Me neither.

Meh, as much as I dislike sourcing wikipedia, I'm feeling lazy ATM

http://en.wikipedia..../Gender_pay_gap

[The Xand]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

The Xand wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

The Xand wrote...
equal pay. 

nope

Yes.

https://www.gov.uk/n...imum-wage-rates

You see any gender specific clause there? Me neither.

Meh, as much as I dislike sourcing wikipedia, I'm feeling lazy ATM

http://en.wikipedia..../Gender_pay_gap

It's up to women to get into better paying jobs then. There's nothing stopping them. I already showed you there's no gender clauses when it comes to pay.

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:08 .

[celestial_emperor]

Here's what, at least in the United States, the pay gap is from the 2012 Census. Source is Forbes magazine, if you choose to trust it.

2012 is women being paid about $0.77 per $1 for the same work by men.

www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2013/09/19/the-geography-of-the-gender-pay-gap-womens-earnings-by-state/

We have had the Lily Ledbetter Act in the United States since 2009, which makes it significantly easier in the United States for women to sue their employes for gender discrimination, and that has not changed things much according to the census. 

[sandalisthemaker]

The Xand wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

The Xand wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

The Xand wrote...
equal pay. 

nope

Yes.

https://www.gov.uk/n...imum-wage-rates

You see any gender specific clause there? Me neither.

Meh, as much as I dislike sourcing wikipedia, I'm feeling lazy ATM

http://en.wikipedia..../Gender_pay_gap

It's up to women to get into better paying jobs then. There's nothing stopping them.

FYI

The statistics show that *within the same field*, women get payed less than men on average.

[The Xand]

See my point above. It's because of the jobs that girls are willingly going into. There *are* no laws preventing women from earning the same as men.

[sandalisthemaker]

The Xand wrote...

See my point above. It's because of the jobs that girls are willingly going into. There *are* no laws preventing women from earning the same as men.

You don't seem to comprehend....

Nevermind then.

[The Xand]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

 BSN made this a feminist argument by page three. 

Radical feminists assuming everything is anti-female.

sandalisthemaker wrote...

You don't seem to comprehend....

Nevermind then.

Find me laws forbidding women from earning the same as men then. I dare you. Because iirc it's illegal to pay women less, and that would be duly noted by female employees and taken to court over.

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:14 .

[CuriousArtemis]

celestial_emperor wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Anita's not 'radical' by any means, her arguments are balanced, if not always correct. I'm not convinced that the 'radical feminist' who supposedly hates all men and calls for their castration is even a real thing. I've certainly never seen one. I think opponents of the feminist movement invented this character in order to discredit the feminist movement by making its advocates look insane.

There's no basis for the claim that men and women have inherently different tastes. The things we associate with specific genders are, in fact, largely arbitrary, and they change according to shifting social values. Pink was once regarded as a 'masculine' colour, for instance. And even if women did have inherently different tastes from men, that's not an excuse for the overwhelmingly negative portrayal of women in videogames. Especially since we know that women do play videogames, regardless of these supposedly different tastes.

Anita doesn't even argue that women should be like men. Rather, her stance is that the qualities we typically associate with femininity have value for both genders, and that they should be celebrated, rather than being disparaged as a weakness.

Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. Excellent points, Plaintiff.

Agree, great post  

Understanding that gender is a construct can be difficult for some people. You can only lead the horse so far. If it doesn't want to drink, well. Horses that refuse to drink will die of dehydration eventually.

[sandalisthemaker]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

 BSN made this a feminist argument by page three. 

lulz

[The Xand]

motomotogirl wrote...

celestial_emperor wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Anita's not 'radical' by any means, her arguments are balanced, if not always correct. I'm not convinced that the 'radical feminist' who supposedly hates all men and calls for their castration is even a real thing. I've certainly never seen one. I think opponents of the feminist movement invented this character in order to discredit the feminist movement by making its advocates look insane.

There's no basis for the claim that men and women have inherently different tastes. The things we associate with specific genders are, in fact, largely arbitrary, and they change according to shifting social values. Pink was once regarded as a 'masculine' colour, for instance. And even if women did have inherently different tastes from men, that's not an excuse for the overwhelmingly negative portrayal of women in videogames. Especially since we know that women do play videogames, regardless of these supposedly different tastes.

Anita doesn't even argue that women should be like men. Rather, her stance is that the qualities we typically associate with femininity have value for both genders, and that they should be celebrated, rather than being disparaged as a weakness.

Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. Excellent points, Plaintiff.

Agree, great post  

Understanding that gender is a construct can be difficult for some people. You can only lead the horse so far. If it doesn't want to drink, well. Horses that refuse to drink will die of dehydration eventually.

Wonderful. Someone else who thinks all women have to change to better suit his vision of equality. How liberal of you.

[sandalisthemaker]

The Xand wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

 BSN made this a feminist argument by page three. 

Radical feminists assuming everything is anti-female.

sandalisthemaker wrote...

You don't seem to comprehend....

Nevermind then.

Find me laws forbidding women from earning the same as men then. Because iirc it's illegal to pay women less, and that would be duly noted by female employees and taken to court over.

Of course there is no law.
It's just a statistical fact, dude. Women get payed less on average.

[Schneidend]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Xand, you just doomed this thread.

I choose to blame Anita Sarkesian.

[CuriousArtemis]

The Xand wrote...

Wonderful. Someone else who thinks all women have to change to better suit his vision of equality. How liberal of you.

Actually, I am biologically female (though I identify as genderqueer).

I don't understand why all women have to change. You might explain this? 

[The Xand]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

The Xand wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

 BSN made this a feminist argument by page three. 

Radical feminists assuming everything is anti-female.

sandalisthemaker wrote...

You don't seem to comprehend....

Nevermind then.

Find me laws forbidding women from earning the same as men then. Because iirc it's illegal to pay women less, and that would be duly noted by female employees and taken to court over.

Of course there is no law.
It's just a statistical fact, dude. Women get payed less on average.

Uhuh. So they get paid less on average...why? Because there are no laws enforcing that. Quite the reverse actually.

motomotogirl wrote...

The Xand wrote...

Wonderful. Someone else who thinks all women have to change to better suit his vision of equality. How liberal of you.

Actually, I am biologically female (though I identify as genderqueer).

I don't understand why all women have to change. You might explain this? 

You're the one arguing that all women have to act like men to be equal. It's all too easy to imagine certain posters in this thread running around slapping girly magazine's out of women's hands screaming "No! Too girly!" before stuffing their hands with PC Gamer mags.

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:19 .

[Eragon-]

The lack of comprehension emerging from one place is suffocating.

[sandalisthemaker]

The Xand wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

The Xand wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

 BSN made this a feminist argument by page three. 

Radical feminists assuming everything is anti-female.

sandalisthemaker wrote...

You don't seem to comprehend....

Nevermind then.

Find me laws forbidding women from earning the same as men then. Because iirc it's illegal to pay women less, and that would be duly noted by female employees and taken to court over.

Of course there is no law.
It's just a statistical fact, dude. Women get payed less on average.

Uhuh. So they get paid less on average...why? Because there are no laws enforcing that. Quite the reverse actually.

I don't know. Because patriarchy?
You are asking me as though I am responsible for women getting payed less.