248 réponses à ce sujet

[sandalisthemaker]

Eragon- wrote...

Can we just ignore the obvious obtuse...person ? This is getting ridiculous.

This thread is becoming mildly amusing IMO

[The Xand]

In Exile wrote...

The Xand wrote...
Well done you, you found some obscure articles crying "sexism".

So what exactly is "solid proof" in the apparent evidence free zone that you live in? Because apparently "peer-reviewed empirical studies conduct across the world in the past 40 years" doesn't count, and since we've ruled out all of science, I'm curious. 

You mean a few very selective biased articles? Yes. Science!

[Plaintiff]

The Xand wrote...
Uhuh. So what you're saying is that women have to change to better suit your vision of equality? To be more like you?

No, please stop making things up.

And don't misinterprety my use of the term "popular". It's popular because it's a noble cause, but in Western society it's not really an issue these days because women *are* treated equally.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

Equal votes, equal pay.

Having their claims of sexual harassment and assault ignored by the authorities, religions trying to take away their right to control their own bodies, media constantly reinforcing the notion that women are responsible for domestic service, being publicly shamed for the way they dress.

I could keep going.

Men can hardly be blamed for women developing their own unique tastes and preferences, even *gosh* daring to like the colour pink (which is far from universal ofc) or female magazines.

Women did not all at once just start magically start liking the colour pink. Media informs our notions of gender, and media is largely controlled by men.

Even in videogames they're treated as equals. Especially in videogames. There's nearly an overabundance of female heroines actually and to claim otherwise is demeaning and belittling to women.

Do you have any reliable statistics regarding the percentage of videogames that feature female protagonists, to support this bold assertion?

If women are treated as 'equals' in videogames, why did the developers of Remember Me report being told by publishers, repeatedly, that they needed to change the gender of their protagonist because "female protagonists don't sell"? Why does Naughty Dog report to have had conflict with their marketing team over the decision to display Ellie prominently on the box art? Why did Ken Levine feel the need to exlude Elizabeth from the cover of Bioshock Infinite in order to give the game more "mainstream appeal"?

If games and gaming culture are so respectful fo women, then why did so many female (and male) game developers flock to the '1reasonwhy' hashtag to share anecdotes about sexual harassment, and the contributions of female staff members being belittled or ignored.

Why did members of this very forum make Jennifer Hepler the target of a harrassment campaign when she candidly admitted to not liking combat in games, and wished that she could skip it to get on with the story? Why did this same forum erupt in rage against the women on the writing team when David Gaider posted an anecdote about the value of a female perspective on his blog?

Perhaps you even view yourself as the dashing knight that will save them?

That's me, Plaintiff the gay knight. I rescue oppressed women from their ivory towers so we can get our nails done and talk about boys.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:35 .

[The Xand]

bobobo878 wrote...

Eragon- wrote...
Can we just ignore the obvious obtuse...person ? This is getting ridiculous.

The word you're looking for is "troll" I believe.

Dwarf. Among midgets.

[Eragon-]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Eragon- wrote...

Can we just ignore the obvious obtuse...person ? This is getting ridiculous.

This thread is becoming mildly amusing IMO

I like my laptop screen in one piece 

Can we just ignore the troll ? Its quite obvious from his last post that he's here just for the attention. 

[The Xand]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Xand wrote...
Uhuh. So what you're saying is that women have to change to better suit your vision of equality? To be more like you?

No, please stop making things up.

And don't misinterprety my use of the term "popular". It's popular because it's a noble cause, but in Western society it's not really an issue these days because women *are* treated equally.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

Equal votes, equal pay.

Having their claims of sexual harassment and assault ignored by the authorities, religions trying to take away their right to control their own bodies, media constantly reinforcing the notion that women are responsible for domestic service, being publicly shamed for the way they dress.

I could keep going.

Men can hardly be blamed for women developing their own unique tastes and preferences, even *gosh* daring to like the colour pink (which is far from universal ofc) or female magazines.

Women did not all at once just start magically start liking the colour pink. Media informs our notions of gender, and media is largely controlled by men.

Even in videogames they're treated as equals. Especially in videogames. There's nearly an overabundance of female heroines actually and to claim otherwise is demeaning and belittling to women.

Do you have any reliable statistics regarding the percentage of videogames that feature female protagonists, to support this bold assertion?

If women are treated as 'equals' in videogames, why did the developers of Remember Me why do they report being told by publishers, repeatedly, that they needed to change the gender of their protagonist because "female protagonists don't sell"? Why does Naughty Dog report to have had conflict with their marketing team over the decision to display Ellie prominently on the box art? Why did Ken Levine feel the need to exlude Elizabeth from the cover of Bioshock Infinite in order to give the game more "mainstream appeal"?

If games and gaming culture are so respectful fo women, then why do so many female (and male) game developers flock to the '1reasonwhy' hashtag to share anecdotes about sexual harassment, and the contributions of female staff members being belittled or ignored.

Why did members of this very forum make Jennifer Hepler the target of a harrassment campaign when she candidly admitted to not liking combat in games, and wished that she could skip it to get on with the story? Why did this same forum erupt in rage against the women on the writing team when David Gaider posted an anecdote about the value of a female perspective on his blog?

Perhaps you even view yourself as the dashing knight that will save them?

That's me, Plaintiff the gay knight. I rescue oppressed women from their ivory towers so we can get our nails done and talk about boys.

There's no way I'm going through all of that jibberyjoo so I'm just going to go ahead and list 50 female heroines from gaming and tell you that it's okay for girls to like pink. Women shouldn't feel harassed into liking things and certainly shouldn't need to change to better fit your views on society, because you think they're "too girly".

[spirosz]

I'm not really understanding the question though, what is the problem? The reason miss Chobot failed in my eyes is because she has no experience that I'm aware of in the Voice Acting department and it brought up questionable reasoning for Bioware to hire such a person. I'm okay with characters being portrayed off actors or looking identical, but it depends on the game itself - like Beyond: Two Souls for example, in relation to Ellen Page.

Look at Miranda, I say that is great work done by Bioware and Yvonne Strahovski herself. Plus, a lot of characters have similarities to their in-game look - GTAV for example (Trevor)

-

And I know this is about females, but as long as the talent is behind the woman (or any person for that matter) doing it, I find they should have no problem justifying their look being portrayed in the game, as long as it works for the game itself.

[sandalisthemaker]

Eragon- wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Eragon- wrote...

Can we just ignore the obvious obtuse...person ? This is getting ridiculous.

This thread is becoming mildly amusing IMO

I like my laptop screen in one piece 

Can we just ignore the troll ? Its quite obvious from his last post that he's here just for the attention. 

TROLLS ARE FUN TO PLAY WITH.

[The Xand]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Honestly Ellen Page should star in the next Bioware game.

Her being in three games would just confuse the living hell out of everyone.

(Yes I count TLoU)

She probably isn't down for that after some creative hackers unlocked her nude body in that Playstation game. She was angry enough to sue.

[The Xand]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Eragon- wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Eragon- wrote...

Can we just ignore the obvious obtuse...person ? This is getting ridiculous.

This thread is becoming mildly amusing IMO

I like my laptop screen in one piece 

Can we just ignore the troll ? Its quite obvious from his last post that he's here just for the attention. 

TROLLS ARE FUN TO PLAY WITH.

Never mind his screen, you've obviously knackered your caps lock.

[sandalisthemaker]

The Xand wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Eragon- wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Eragon- wrote...

Can we just ignore the obvious obtuse...person ? This is getting ridiculous.

This thread is becoming mildly amusing IMO

I like my laptop screen in one piece 

Can we just ignore the troll ? Its quite obvious from his last post that he's here just for the attention. 

TROLLS ARE FUN TO PLAY WITH.

Never mind his screen, you've obviously knackered your caps lock.

NOPE.  I DO THIS ALL THE TIME.
LUV ME DEM CAPS    

[In Exile]

The Xand wrote...
There's no way I'm going through all of that jibberyjoo so I'm just going to go ahead and list 50 female heroines from gaming and tell you that it's okay for girls to like pink. Women shouldn't feel harassed into liking things and certainly shouldn't need to change to better fit your views on society, because you think they're "too girly".

And I'm going to quote literally the first pargraph in that list for you:

Female video game characters often have a hard time keeping their dignity intact in digital worlds that are, more often than not, ruled and controlled by men. Nevertheless, there are those special heroines who stand out from the pack and really make a mark on the industry—and not just with their breasts, either - does happen.

 

Holy cow Batman! It's almost like you're totally wrong about everything, and even disproven by the things you cite (probably without bothering to read them). 

Modifié par In Exile, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:40 .

[The Xand]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

The Xand wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Eragon- wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Eragon- wrote...

Can we just ignore the obvious obtuse...person ? This is getting ridiculous.

This thread is becoming mildly amusing IMO

I like my laptop screen in one piece 

Can we just ignore the troll ? Its quite obvious from his last post that he's here just for the attention. 

TROLLS ARE FUN TO PLAY WITH.

Never mind his screen, you've obviously knackered your caps lock.

NOPE.  I DO THIS ALL THE TIME.
LUV ME DEM CAPS    

Settle, petal.

In Exile wrote...

The Xand wrote...
There's no way I'm going through all of that jibberyjoo so I'm just going to go ahead and list 50 female heroines from gaming
and tell you that it's okay for girls to like pink. Women shouldn't
feel harassed into liking things and certainly shouldn't need to change
to better fit your views on society, because you think they're "too
girly".

And I'm going to quote literally the first pargraph in that list for you:

Female
video game characters often have a hard time keeping their dignity
intact in digital worlds that are, more often than not, ruled and
controlled by men. Nevertheless, there are those special
heroines who stand out from the pack and really make a mark on the
industry—and not just with their breasts, either ] does happen.

 

Holy
cow Batman! It's almost like you're totally wrong about everything, and
even disproven by the things you cite (probably without bothering to
read them). 

Yes, because those 50 heroines it goes on to list totally don't exist.

Let's also pretend that the Tomb Raider, Dragon Age and Metroid Prime series don't also exist featuring empowered women. Mainstream games that *aren't* sexist? Heaven forbid.

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:43 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Eragon- wrote...

Can we just ignore the obvious obtuse...person ? This is getting ridiculous.

Yes lol I sometimes come to the DAI forum to polish off my debating skills. Also my teaching skills. It's good practice to try and relate a complex concept in as simple a way as possible. Though it's disheartening when the listener still doesn't quite get it! 

Obviously I still have a ways to go! I was never good at... speaking down to people, if you know what I mean

[wolfhowwl]

Schneidend wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Okay this is pissing me off.

It is "paid."

Your avatar creeps me right the hell out.

Oh? I'm quite fond of it.



So smug.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:48 .

[Plaintiff]

The Xand wrote...
There's no way I'm going through all of that jibberyjoo so I'm just going to go ahead and list 50 female heroines from gaming

Wow, fifty?! That's a big number, fifty. Why it's almost a fraction of a percent of all the videogames ever produced!

and tell you that it's okay for girls to like pink.

I never said it wasn't okay. Women are welcome to like pink. Men are too. When I was younger, pink was my favourite colour.

Women shouldn't feel harassed into liking things and certainly shouldn't need to change to better fit your views on society, because you think they're "too girly".

I never said that women need to change. If anything, men could stand to be more like women.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:50 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The Xand wrote...

Settle, petal. I'm sorry that common sense offended you so, but that's exactly what Felicia Day's whole spiel is. Cute nerdy chick. Her inclusion into Dragon Age was just a clever ploy to get her legions of drooling fanboys interested in Dragon Age 2. They would have been very disappointed if her character didn't at least look like her.

Mmhm.

Here's a screenie I just took of her top search results on Google.

You can extrapolate what her fans are like from that alone.

Sorry, sunshine, I just put her name into Google myself and got twitter, imdb and tumblr.

I'm extrapolating that she's on the internet.

And possibly that your Google search interests are different to mine.

So by your argument it's just as bad if a voice actress was an uggo but they made her attractive in-game? Hurm.

What argument?

Allow me to spell it out for you, poppet; you don't need to be a good looking actor to have your likeness integrated into the game.

Of course you don't, cupcake.

But you're also saying that you should have your likeness in the game if you're good looking. Indeed, you said it'd be a waste of money if a voice actor's visual 'sex appeal' isn't marketed -- or at least the voice actors who are female.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:43 .

[In Exile]

The Xand wrote...
Yes, because those 50 heroines it goes on to list totally don't exist.

Let's do this again:

Female video game characters often have a hard time keeping their dignity intact in digital worlds that are, more often than not, ruled and controlled by men. Nevertheless, there are those special heroines who stand out from the pack and really make a mark on the industry—and not just with their breasts, either. It's a true rarity, we know, but it does happen.

 

Your point: games aren't sexist. List's point: games are super sexist, but here are the very rare female protagonits shown in them that happen to be inspirational. 

[The Xand]

motomotogirl wrote...

Eragon- wrote...

Can we just ignore the obvious obtuse...person ? This is getting ridiculous.

Yes lol I sometimes come to the DAI forum to polish off my debating skills. Also my teaching skills. It's good practice to try and relate a complex concept in as simple a way as possible. Though it's disheartening when the listener still doesn't quite get it! 

Obviously I still have a ways to go! I was never good at... speaking down to people, if you know what I mean

I do hope you aren't teaching debating because so far all you've waded in with is "I'm a genderqueer woman and for some reason I disagree with you". Truly helpful.

In Exile wrote...

The Xand wrote...
Yes, because those 50 heroines it goes on to list totally don't exist.

Let's do this again:

Female
video game characters often have a hard time keeping their dignity
intact in digital worlds that are, more often than not, ruled and
controlled by men. Nevertheless, there are those special
heroines who stand out from the pack and really make a mark on the
industry—and not just with their breasts, either. It's a true rarity, we know, but it does happen.

 

Your
point: games aren't sexist. List's point: games are super sexist, but
here are the very rare female protagonits shown in them that happen to
be inspirational. 

So rare there's fifty of them in that list alone.

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:45 .

[ObserverStatus]

The Mad Hanar wrote...
*peeks head in*
Isn't it funny how every female protagonist looking good is sexist, but every male protagonist looking good isn't?

I don't know about that, a lot of male protagonists I've seen look far more "grizzled" than "good looking".

[The Xand]

bobobo878 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...
*peeks head in*
Isn't it funny how every female protagonist looking good is sexist, but every male protagonist looking good isn't?

I don't know about that, a lot of male protagonists I've seen look far more "grizzled" than "good looking".

That is good looking. Chicks dig grizzled.

[sandalisthemaker]

XAND, SWEETHEART, I GIVE YOU A 5/10.