169 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

cjones91 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

iakus wrote...

The answer is: Don't.

Make the best darn product you can. If you're going to make an rpg, make it the best rpg you can. Make it as appealing an rpg as possible. If you're writing a narrative, make it the best most polished narrative possible. But accept the fact that not everyone plays them. Not everyone cares about the story. Some people don't care about choice or dialogue.

At some point you just reach diminishing returns. At some point broadening the audience just means leaving more and more people behind.

Why should they care about leaving a few behind if they can increase their fanbase tenfold? They are running a business not a service....

Because the original fanbase will stick with you while the others go play something else.

If the "original fanbase" are such loyal beasts as you describe them, then they would stick with the game even if the next instalment was a FPS. However we both know that is not true for the most part. At the end of the day, there is no difference between an old fan and a new fan, oter than the old fan have a bad habit of feeling superior and entitled.

[Plaintiff]

cjones91 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Nothing. Games are an experience good. Nobody knows if they're going to like one until they play it.

As lead designer it's not my job to make the game look appealing to the widest audience possible. It's the marketing department's job.

There are some cases where marketing has done more harm than good.

How can you know that? Can you see into an alternate dimension where the concept of advertising was never invented?

Without marketing you woulldn't even know if a particular game exists. You can't know if any individual game would've been better off without marketing.

[Plaintiff]

cjones91 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

iakus wrote...

The answer is: Don't.

Make the best darn product you can. If you're going to make an rpg, make it the best rpg you can. Make it as appealing an rpg as possible. If you're writing a narrative, make it the best most polished narrative possible. But accept the fact that not everyone plays them. Not everyone cares about the story. Some people don't care about choice or dialogue.

At some point you just reach diminishing returns. At some point broadening the audience just means leaving more and more people behind.

Why should they care about leaving a few behind if they can increase their fanbase tenfold? They are running a business not a service....

Because the original fanbase will stick with you while the others go play something else.

But that's not true. People are not constant. It's inevitable that any pre-existing fanbase will shrink. Members of the "original fanbase" will simply grow out of that series, or even grow out of gaming altogether. Maybe their job keeps them too busy, or maybe their family does. And let's not forget that sometimes people just straight-up die.

If companies don't do something to get some fresh blood, then they stagnate and die. That's just how it is.

[AlexanderCousland]

How do you make an RPG that appeals to everyone, even those who might not be interested:

Skyrim

[The Xand]

FreshIstay wrote...

How do you make an RPG that appeals to everyone, even those who might not be interested:

Skyrim

That's what I mean though, that's a good game because it's got such broad appeal and has been made accessible to the plebeian masses.

I honestly don't feel there's much to be had in the way of arguing against "mainstream appeal", because that implies that you think you're some sort of rare and precious little flower and genuinely above everyone else when at the end of the day you really are just a statistic. What you like, others will, and the best of games will appeal to the most people.

[cjones91]

Plaintiff wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

iakus wrote...

The answer is: Don't.

Make the best darn product you can. If you're going to make an rpg, make it the best rpg you can. Make it as appealing an rpg as possible. If you're writing a narrative, make it the best most polished narrative possible. But accept the fact that not everyone plays them. Not everyone cares about the story. Some people don't care about choice or dialogue.

At some point you just reach diminishing returns. At some point broadening the audience just means leaving more and more people behind.

Why should they care about leaving a few behind if they can increase their fanbase tenfold? They are running a business not a service....

Because the original fanbase will stick with you while the others go play something else.

But that's not true. People are not constant. It's inevitable that any pre-existing fanbase will shrink. Members of the "original fanbase" will simply grow out of that series, or even grow out of gaming altogether. Maybe their job keeps them too busy, or maybe their family does. And let's not forget that sometimes people just straight-up die.

If companies don't do something to get some fresh blood, then they stagnate and die. That's just how it is.

I agree that companies need to get some new customers every once and a while,however your original customers are the ones who tell people about the products you're selling and if you ditch them for a unpredictable market then you will suffer from it.

[The Xand]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Hmmm.

Well to cover all of the bases...

I'd have a gay black dude.
I'd have a scantly clothed female.
I'd have a strong independent female who don't need no man.
I'd have a dudebro who agreed with everything the PC said and mentioned alcohol every other line.
I'd have a girl next door character.
I'd have a guy who wasn't afraid to express his feelings.
I'd include the ability to do drugs.
I'd include the ability to get married, no matter the orientation.
I'd include the ability to have a pet dragon that is also a summon.
I'd have crossbows, old pistols, bows and arrows and slingshots as weapons.
I'd have an athiest mage.
I'd have a religious templar.
I'd have a poor character who bemoaned rich people and politicians.
I'd have a character who would have a "live and let live" attitude.

Most of all...

I'd include the ability to have a child no matter the race of the person you choose to bang.

Everybody would be angry yet represented. BOOYAH.

Why a black guy.

I kid, I kid.

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 04:19 .

[cjones91]

The Xand wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

How do you make an RPG that appeals to everyone, even those who might not be interested:

Skyrim

That's what I mean though, that's a good game because it's got such broad appeal and has been made accessible to the plebeian masses.

I honestly don't feel there's much to be had in the way of arguing against "mainstream appeal", because that implies that you think you're some sort of rare and precious little flower and genuinely above everyone else when at the end of the day you really are just a statistic. What you like, others will, and the best of games will appeal to the most people.

That's not true at all.There is nothing wrong with mass appeal but if it comes into conflict with how the game is supposed to be envisioned then it can be a detriment.

[GreyLycanTrope]

I wouldn't. #hipsterappeal #nicheappeal #edgyasf*ckappeal

[The Spirit of Dance]

If I was a lead designer... I'd be lazy and just throw in stuff that I think would sell to the majority like nudity, multiplayer, minigames (stuff like poker or target practice for archers), atleast 10 romance options and the ability to attack random NPCs.

[cjones91]

Plaintiff wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Nothing. Games are an experience good. Nobody knows if they're going to like one until they play it.

As lead designer it's not my job to make the game look appealing to the widest audience possible. It's the marketing department's job.

There are some cases where marketing has done more harm than good.

How can you know that? Can you see into an alternate dimension where the concept of advertising was never invented?

Without marketing you woulldn't even know if a particular game exists. You can't know if any individual game would've been better off without marketing.

I did'nt say marketing is bad....however some marketing teams have complete turned off customers in this year alone.

[The Xand]

cjones91 wrote...

The Xand wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

How do you make an RPG that appeals to everyone, even those who might not be interested:

Skyrim

That's what I mean though, that's a good game because it's got such broad appeal and has been made accessible to the plebeian masses.

I honestly don't feel there's much to be had in the way of arguing against "mainstream appeal", because that implies that you think you're some sort of rare and precious little flower and genuinely above everyone else when at the end of the day you really are just a statistic. What you like, others will, and the best of games will appeal to the most people.

That's not true at all.There is nothing wrong with mass appeal but if it comes into conflict with how the game is supposed to be envisioned then it can be a detriment.

But then there are other reasons for that, such as conflicting ideas of which direction to take the game. Just look at how intense debates about the Maker or the Golden City get, and we don't even make the game!

[rupok93]

Lets just make every game super accessible, dumbed down with sex every few minutes. O ya and EXPLOSIONS, and add guns and zombies. Lets let you 1 shot everything cause the majority don't like difficulty in games.

I mean those would appeal to a broader audience wouldn't it? If every developer and creative artist thought about appealing to broader audiences first instead of designing their game however they want to then thats all we would get. And you know what? Thats actually whats happening these days in the industry. You get devs who are too scared too put too many complex things in story or gameplay because they think about the masses. You get storytellers who don't want to make a story too dark in fear that it will cause a bad reaction, etc.

Its nothing to do with elitism or some kind of entitlement. I am free to not buy products or leave a series but these days there aren't many replacements since almost all these game devs are doing this "cater to a greater audience" thing. Doing that kind of thing will destroy your core fanbase, the only reason bioware is so big today is because of how good its past games were, it built up a following of people who consistently buy their games, if they throw that away to "appeal to a greater audience" they are welcome to do so but I feel like that would be a bad idea.

[Meatbaggins]

Plaintiff wrote...

Nothing. Games are an experience good. Nobody knows if they're going to like one until they play it.

As lead designer it's not my job to make the game look appealing to the widest audience possible. It's the marketing department's job.

This. If a tactical RPG with a deep fantasy world and interesting characters isn't appealing to a "wider audience", then make the case to them.  Market the hell out of it. When it comes to entertainment, people are willing to try new things if there's enough hype behind it.

Modifié par Meatbaggins, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:49 .

[NUM13ER]

Personally I feel it's making the best version of your game you can. That is your best chance of reaching the widest audience. Sure sometimes great games aren't successful but the list of games that tried to appeal to everyone and pleased no-one is evergrowing. Dragon Age: Origins launched with modest sales, but good word of mouth had it continue to sell consistently months down the line, making it a huge success.

I feel the two latest X-Com games encapsulate this. One was designed with mass appeal in mind and thus was a shooter, despite being a brand known for RTS. The other set about making an enjoyable RTS experience.

X-Com: Enemy Unknown has been a massive success. It's "spin-off" will be forgotten before Christmas.

Modifié par NUM13ER, 11 novembre 2013 - 05:29 .

[Maria Caliban]

N7recruit wrote...

Usergnome wrote...

Multiplayer

Ok... How would you implement it Knowing the DA Pause & Play Strategy based Gameplay?

Have you never played Neverwinter Night or Buldar's Gate? They both had MP.

[Lokiwithrope]

I'd make the game how I'd damn well want it, as an RPG fan and fantasy lover.

[The Xand]

rupok93 wrote...

Lets just make every game super accessible, dumbed down with sex every few minutes. O ya and EXPLOSIONS, and add guns and zombies. Lets let you 1 shot everything cause the majority don't like difficulty in games.

I mean those would appeal to a broader audience wouldn't it? If every developer and creative artist thought about appealing to broader audiences first instead of designing their game however they want to then thats all we would get. And you know what? Thats actually whats happening these days in the industry. You get devs who are too scared too put too many complex things in story or gameplay because they think about the masses. You get storytellers who don't want to make a story too dark in fear that it will cause a bad reaction, etc.

Its nothing to do with elitism or some kind of entitlement. I am free to not buy products or leave a series but these days there aren't many replacements since almost all these game devs are doing this "cater to a greater audience" thing. Doing that kind of thing will destroy your core fanbase, the only reason bioware is so big today is because of how good its past games were, it built up a following of people who consistently buy their games, if they throw that away to "appeal to a greater audience" they are welcome to do so but I feel like that would be a bad idea.

Why would you assume that everyone else is stupid? Are you so very different from the rest of us?

Modifié par The Xand, 11 novembre 2013 - 06:31 .

[Icy Magebane]

I'd take the low road and just add full nudity to the romances. That always sells. Maybe throw in a few brothels with similar features, and the ability to get raging drunk and fistfight whoever's nearby, like in Red Dead Redemption.

[The Xand]

MasterScribe wrote...

T, V, and A everywhere. I want it, you want it, everyone wants it. 

Is that some kind of STD?

[The Xand]

MasterScribe wrote...

The Xand wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

T, V, and A everywhere. I want it, you want it, everyone wants it. 

Is that some kind of STD?

Potentially, if one is not safe. 

Luckily, Cassandra is most likely a virgin. 

The Tennessee Valley Authority?

And oh my. Want to watch comments like that lest you have the feminists from the other thread out in force.

[Fast Jimmy]

I'd put in more Quidditch.