169 réponses à ce sujet

[redneck nosferatu]

I wouldn't. My sole motivation would be to design what I felt was the best game; not cater to "the COD audience". But then again, my vision of that would look very little like a DA game, so I'd be a terrible choice for lead designer of this game, in particular.

An isometric RPG with seven active party members at once, no romances, Deus Ex-like nonlethal combat options, practical weapons and armor based on historical designs, and intentionally overpowered magic would be cool; but it also wouldn't fit what's been seen in either preceding Dragon Age game.

Modifié par redneck nosferatu, 11 novembre 2013 - 07:22 .

[The Xand]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I'd put in more Quidditch.

They could do with more minigames actually. I'd prefer Pazaac personally or something like Caravan from Fallout New Vegas. I was a dab hand at that.

[The Xand]

TipsLeFedora wrote...

Appealing to a wider audience usually means accesability. One of the disadvantages of this is dumbing down of core mechanics. A casual fan would be appaled by the idea of inventory management if not well versed in the genre. Some might not even like the combat while some might do. As a Lead designer these are the choices you have to make. One of the choices made was to switch to the Dragon age 2 type of combat system. Did that change for the better? I will let you decide.

Yes absolutely. The combat was kind of sucky in Origins. Skills were all over the place and didn't really feel like they did much. The Sword/shield tree was esp bad with like 3 different types of "block mode" that were virtually indistinguishable.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

N7recruit wrote...

Nothing wrong with Being RPG Purest First, mainstream combat never:lol: I mysely would like Bioware to change focus from "IMPROVE COMBAT & GRAPIX!!!" to  "MAKE BSEST RPG EVER!"

No, nothing wrong with that. XD

This discussion did remind me of an interview I read recently, with Warren Spector on Ultima, Origin, and CRPG Design

I'll quote the bit I meant here, mainly the italicised part, but the rest provided for context:

There's no doubt RPG's were out of favor by the mid-90s. No doubt at all. People didn't seem to want fantasy stories or post-apocalypse stories anymore. They certainly didn't want isometric, 100 hour fantasy or post-apocalypse stories, that's for sure! I couldn't say why it happened, but it did. Everyone was jumping on the CD craze – it was all cinematic games and high-end graphics puzzle games… That was a tough time for me – I mean, picture yourself sitting in a meeting with a bunch of execs, trying to convince them to do all sorts of cool games and being told, "Warren, you're not allowed to say the word 'story' any more." Talk about a slap in the face, a bucket of cold water, a dose of reality.

If you ask me, the reason it all happened was that we assumed our audience wanted 100 hours of play and didn't care much about graphics. Even high end RPGs were pretty plain jane next to things like Myst and even our own Wing Commander series. I think we fell behind our audience in terms of the sophistication they expected and we catered too much to the hardcore fans. That can work when you're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars – even a few million – but when games start costing many millions, you just can't make them for a relatively small audience of fans.

Remember, when I started, "going gold" didn't mean "shipping a game" – it meant you sold 100,000 copies. And when you did that, you went and bought yourself a Ferrari. By the mid-90s, 100,000 copies was a dismal failure. We had to reach out beyond the 100,000 core fans. And none of us did a very good job of that, at the time. Luckily, we figured it out – or started to – later on…​

But to me that all reads...companies have to keep trying to bring in a wider audience, even if the hardcore fans don't like the changes being made. I think I'd be one of the people who, as Warren mentioned, would care more about the hardcore fans which could or would make the brand suffer if the game didn't evolve beyond story.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

I don't know why everyone thinks making a game have more appeal means dumbing down the story and making it have more sex. That to me just screams having a low opinion of others while artificially stroking your ego for liking this one particular genre or game that you think is too advanced for other people to get.

Making a game appealing is making it easy to pick up and play, a good story and narrative are both things that are needed to have a good game regardless of the genre. You'd have to be insane to say "we need to make an inferior story for the players", or someone with a early 1900's mentality to entertainment.

Marketing to make people interested and remember your game, leaving an impression in their hands, combined with a good story, and not over-bearing game mechanics mired in traditionalist thinking and conservative genre-obsession, will make your game go far. In my opinion that's why games like fallout and skyrim are so popular with the newer gaming generations, along with games like minecraft, shooters, etc, they are all easy to play, with a interface that is easy to understand and utilize.

Crafting mechanics, item management, stat comparisons, all of that are things that people can understand and pick up well, if it's presented to them in a easy to understand way. If you mire it in button after menu after display tab and so on and so forth you'll turn them off from the experience because it won't be fun any longer, it'll be extracurricular work, basically the game assigning you homework. If you make it so that only those familiar with the fantasy rpg setting will understand what certain tabs are for items, what the stats mean, how to use items and equip weapons and the restrictions, those new fans aren't going to get it and are going to get really bored or frustrated with the game really quickly.

This also applies to combat, interacting with the environment around you, working and reading the map and display, the way the visuals of the game help the players at certain points. It all may sound like hand-holding to those with lots of rpg experience who are deeply entrenched in the genre, but to a new player it can be like a massive greased wall that blocks their progress in the story and basically says "I'm a game that doesn't want you finishing me", which is why players don't finish the games or play them all the way through. The game mechanics and play weren't enough to interest them, and the story wasn't one they could invest in to force themselves to play the game its way.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 11 novembre 2013 - 07:52 .

[Fredward]

Honestly I'd just try to make the best game ever. And by that I mean best playable story with the most believable and nuanced characters ever. Quality speaks for itself.

[HiroVoid]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Honestly I'd just try to make the best game ever. And by that I mean best playable story with the most believable and nuanced characters ever. Quality speaks for itself.

So you want to make a visual novel?

[Fredward]

HiroVoid wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Honestly I'd just try to make the best game ever. And by that I mean best playable story with the most believable and nuanced characters ever. Quality speaks for itself.

So you want to make a visual novel?

Oooooh a Dragon Age visual novel! That sounds so dope. But no, here I just meant that if it was me my primary focus would be on story and characterization and not say, combat. Which is why Numenera interests me so.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

I don't know why everyone thinks making a game have more appeal means dumbing down the story and making it have more sex. That to me just screams having a low opinion of others while artificially stroking your ego for liking this one particular genre or game that you think is too advanced for other people to get.

I think there's just some confusion between appealing to a wider audience and appealing to a mainstream audience. Wider audience just means more people. Mainstream means appealing to what's currently popular to the majority in our gaming culture.

As such, wider doesn't necessarily mean 'dumbing' anything down. Mainstream can, depending on what exactly is popular and if emulating that is going to mean changing what you've got in order to conform.

Brian Fargo parodies the mainstream direction of marketing quite brilliantly in his Wasteland 2 Kickstarter video.

I suppose it depends if you think a sequel's story will still be good if romantic vampires are integrated into a plot where vampires don't exist.

[mickey111]

Kill streaks.
Open world, because we all know that big open worlds that are loaded with copy + paste are the latest hotness.

[Augustei]

Tell them we've fired all the staff and tell them CD Projekt are working on this game now =P

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 11 novembre 2013 - 08:25 .

[Icy Magebane]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Honestly I'd just try to make the best game ever. And by that I mean best playable story with the most believable and nuanced characters ever. Quality speaks for itself.

So you want to make a visual novel?

Oooooh a Dragon Age visual novel! That sounds so dope. But no, here I just meant that if it was me my primary focus would be on story and characterization and not say, combat. Which is why Numenera interests me so.

But I like to fight.  Bioware give us a great mix of combat and story already... if there's any way to increase the amount of combat while maintaining the strong narratives intrinsic to their games, that would attract the most people.  We're trying to make money here, and make great games...  If some players would rather avoid combat, it could be as simple as creating a "spawn toggle" at the beginning of the game.  No changing it later on, but when you start, you get the option of half or full spawns... maybe the bosses in half spawn mode would be a little easier, since you'd be getting less exp...

[HiroVoid]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Honestly I'd just try to make the best game ever. And by that I mean best playable story with the most believable and nuanced characters ever. Quality speaks for itself.

So you want to make a visual novel?

Oooooh a Dragon Age visual novel! That sounds so dope. But no, here I just meant that if it was me my primary focus would be on story and characterization and not say, combat. Which is why Numenera interests me so.

Hmm...well, to make the best game ever, you still need to incorporate the gameplay elements well, or at least make sure they aren't a burden.  As far as a visual novel, aside from adventure games, I honestly can't think of any that's been made in the west as of now (though there's probably some Indie attempts).

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I wouldn't do this.

Why ?

Dragon Age as a gaming franchise is pretty established now. I mean it is not Elder Scrolls or GTA but its pretty well know.

We already have tons of fans that don't just play the video game but read the novels and do cosplay,etc.

So I would not cater to a bigger audience. DA already has a big audience to cater to. Pro-Mages, Pro-Templars, Middle Grounders, Romancefreaks, Roleplayers, etc...

If Bioware wishes to make a game that could appeal to the masses, they should introduce a new IP and make that the IP's focus.

[fchopin]

If Bioware want to attract more people to the game the answer is very simple.
Sex sells so the more sex scenes in the game with multi relationships for gay lesbian and all kinds of relationships the better.
It does not mean the game will be good but it will sell to more people.
That is why the Sims will be the best game in the future.

[ATiBotka]

Wider audience sucks.

[Wulfram]

1. Make a really good game. Quality is the best thing to appeal outside your niche
2. Improve the default Tactics, to make things simpler for new players
3. Streamline/"dumb down" the attributes system, to place the emphasis on genuine choices rather than optimisation by number crunching, and stop it being such a newbie trap.
4. Cut down on time-wasting filler.

[Blooddrunk1004]

How?
Dumb down RPG elements, make sure every female character has implants, your character is a chosen one of... something, making every companion bisexual, remove story content from the game and put it as Day 1 DLC, COD health regen system, remove potions and etc.

Microtransactions, removal of tactical combat and add "awesome button" mashing, evil taking over the world and you are the only one who can stop it, countless side quests of cleaning dungeons, caves - quantity over quality.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 11 novembre 2013 - 11:04 .

[Fetunche]

Bring back health regen and get rid of inventory micromanagement.

[The Elder King]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Tell them we've fired all the staff and tell them CD Projekt are working on this game now =P

This would lead to a better game (based on the opinion that CDPR is better than Bioware). It doesn't necessarily make the game cater to a wider audience. So far CDPR's games sold less than Bioware's games (comparing the DA IP to TW). 

[Angrywolves]

I'm sure Gaider wants the fans to tell him what to do.
rotfl.
My impression it's a team effort, not just Gaider .
Reaching a broader audience , they're trying to copy skyrim to an extent, they admit that.
Skyrim type sales figures for DAI would be a huge success.
Not sure they can get that, the Elder Scrolls seems to have a larger built in fanbase.
shrugs.
So they should just make the best game they can, hope for good reviews, and go from there.

[Vort3xX]

I wouldn't because appeal to the larger audience is bullsh!t.

[Archaven]

Make the game for kids. Casualize it. No ****** no killing no fighting.

"I love you. You love me. We're a happy family..." - Barney

[Fast Jimmy]

I'd remove the Save Import and focus entirely on making divergent content within the game, personally.