214 réponses à ce sujet

[JCAP]

Eleinehmm wrote...

Makkah876 wrote...

The Witcher is a great game from a technical standpoint, but I didn't find the characters to be very interesting. Great characters is the main reason I find BioWare games so compelling, and they have the Witcher beat quite handily in that department.

Yes, pretty much it. I can play games about people I don't care about, same with the books. Why should I continue reading if I don't care if the main characters  achieve what they want to or not ?

I guess that depends on the people tastes. 

[Ryzaki]

Inprea wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

Oh, and one more thing. Everyone here complaining that the Witcher games don't let you play as a woman are completely missing the point. The games are based on a series of fantasy novels and short stories with Geralt as the main protagonist, so letting the player change his gender/race/etc was out of the question. I've never heard any Harry Potter fans complain that the games don't let them play as Harriet Potter.

For the record, CD Projekt's other upcoming game, Cyberpunk 2077, is an original IP and will have character customization, so you can' t accuse them of sexism.

Actually you're the one missing the point because you're making assumptions. I didn't say they were sexist and I don't believe anyone else here did. Just because we're not interested in yet another male protagonist doesn't mean we believe the game developers are sexist.

I just don't care about male protagonist. Their trials, tribulations and conquest just don't interest me the way a woman's does.

This.

Me not being interested in playing yet another WMSP has nothing to do with feelign the developers are sexist. It's me being tired of WMSP.

[Nohvarr]

9TailsFox wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Unless Geralt of Rivia is suddenly down with the man-love, then there's no comparison as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry Geralt have only one love Yennefer.

This wonderfully expresses one of my major problems with the Witcher games. Geralt likes these people, I do not. Geralt has  history with these people and I do not. I played all through the Witcher 2 hoping to find a connection that would make me care about the world and it's plight, this discussion has made me realize that I have no such connection, so thank you for that. Looking back on it, the only reason I was going to play TW3, was the monster hunting, and open world nature of the game and since I honestly don't know if that will be enough for me, I will wait for a price drop before picking up TW3.

I mean next year I have Torment: Tides of Numenera, Project Eternity an DA:I coming out so I am good for RPGs.

[General TSAR]

Plaintiff wrote...

The point is I get to play a gay character. More than that, I get to play a gay hero.

Do you know how many gay characters there are in fiction, period? Because it's not a lot. And the few that exist consist mostly of one-dimnesional, offensively stereotypical sidekicks to straight women.

The only time a gay character gets to be a protagonist of anything, it's a boring drama where everybody weeps about how super-duper hard it is to be gay. Hell, gay male protagonists are getting off lightly if they haven't committed suicide or been murdered by the end of the story. And the characters are shallow and boring as hell because hack writers think that making a character gay means they don't need any other personality traits. And, of course, it's in the 'Queer' section of your local book or film store, because gay stories don't deserve to be told alongside those of our heterosexual superiors. It doesn't matter if the book/movie is a comedy or a tragedy or a horror or whatever. If it's about gay people, it goes on the 'Queer' shelf. Imagine if your local DVD store had a 'Black' section, and all the Will Smith and Eddie Murphy movies were in there.

Dragon Age is one of a scant few media products where a gay character can a) be an action hero and have a personality. And bonus, I don't have to go to a 'Queer' section to get a copy and feel like I have a neon sign flashing the word "****GOT!" over my head.

I don't expect you to understand the value of that, because you aren't in the position of being constantly told that your place in life is either to help straight people with their relationship problems, or to be bullied to the point of killing yourself. Or that your stories are unimportant and need to be kept separate from everyone else's.

Yeah someone is very salty. 

[Eleinehmm]

Nohvarr wrote...

9TailsFox wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Unless Geralt of Rivia is suddenly down with the man-love, then there's no comparison as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry Geralt have only one love Yennefer.

This wonderfully expresses one of my major problems with the Witcher games. Geralt likes these people, I do not. Geralt has  history with these people and I do not. I played all through the Witcher 2 hoping to find a connection that would make me care about the world and it's plight, this discussion has made me realize that I have no such connection, so thank you for that. Looking back on it, the only reason I was going to play TW3, was the monster hunting, and open world nature of the game and since I honestly don't know if that will be enough for me, I will wait for a price drop before picking up TW3.

I mean next year I have Torment: Tides of Numenera, Project Eternity an DA:I coming out so I am good for RPGs.

Yes, I hope the new Torment: and Project Eternity will turn out to be all right, it would be sad if DA would be the only decent RPG in the next two years.

[Nohvarr]

Eleinehmm wrote...

Yes, I hope the new Torment: and Project Eternity will turn out to be all right, it would be sad if DA would be the only decent RPG in the next two years.

I backed the Kickstarter, and later bought Monte Cooks Numenera guide. Honestly the guide left me with a lot of ideas for PnP campaigns that have little to no combat at all, and rely more on the characters using their heads in conjunction with their skills to solve problems and make new discoverys. Honestly I like this concept a lot, more than I thought I would.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 11 novembre 2013 - 06:58 .

[Eleinehmm]

Nohvarr wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

Yes, I hope the new Torment: and Project Eternity will turn out to be all right, it would be sad if DA would be the only decent RPG in the next two years.

I backed the Kickstarter, and later bought Monte Cooks Numenera guide. Honestly the guide left me with a lot of ideas for PnP campaigns that have little to no combat at all, and rely more on the characters using their heads in conjunction with their skills to solve problems and make new discoverys. Honestly I like this concept a lot, more than I thought I would.

Ah, a fellow  PnPst, so to speak. Yeah, the guide is interesting. I have been collecting setting fluff-books for a long time, and enjoy interesting worlds immensely. This, and I liked the soundtrack, it sounded... right...

[Kalas747]

Nope. RPG fans with good taste will likely get both games. Though I'll read reviews for dragon age before buying after the snake bite that was DA2.

Also, this thread is hilarious. Good material for a parody of some kind...

[dragonflight288]

I plan to get Inquisition well before Witcher 3.

Up to now, I think Witcher's combat and choices are better developed and the consequences are far more reaching, and it's a truly grey world where there are no right or wrong sides, and no faction is innocent. But the characters and their relationships feel very shallow. Take Geralt's relationship with Triss. They are apparently lovers, but what do we know of Triss beyond she's a mage, former adviser to Foltest, and she's head-over-heels in love with Geralt. She doesn't even seem to mind that once they find Yennefer, chances are that Geralt will be returning to her or building a harem of sorceresses. And Geralt....I got more characterization from Dandelion's journal entries than I did by playing.

With Dragon Age, I think the characters are the biggest draw. They are well-written, believable and they have quite realistic actions themselves. A lot of Dragon Age is also morally grey, and a lot of the characters approval and disapproval is based on very relatable issues, for one reason or another, and is masterfully designed to be controversial and so fansfall into very clear-cut camps like pro-templars or pro-mages, or in possible real-life terms, pro-security and pro-liberty.

I find the Dragon Age universe far more compelling than I do the witcher universe, but I can completely understand why some people would find Witcher more appealing than Dragon Age.

[Fredward]

Plaintiff wrote...
The point is I get to play a gay character. More than that, I get to play a gay hero.

Do you know how many gay characters there are in fiction, period? Because it's not a lot. And the few that exist consist mostly of one-dimnesional, offensively stereotypical sidekicks to straight women.

The only time a gay character gets to be a protagonist of anything, it's a boring drama where everybody weeps about how super-duper hard it is to be gay. Hell, gay male protagonists are getting off lightly if they haven't committed suicide or been murdered by the end of the story. And the characters are shallow and boring as hell because hack writers think that making a character gay means they don't need any other personality traits. And, of course, it's in the 'Queer' section of your local book or film store, because gay stories don't deserve to be told alongside those of our heterosexual superiors. It doesn't matter if the book/movie is a comedy or a tragedy or a horror or whatever. If it's about gay people, it goes on the 'Queer' shelf. Imagine if your local DVD store had a 'Black' section, and all the Will Smith and Eddie Murphy movies were in there.

Dragon Age is one of a scant few media products where a gay character can a) be an action hero and have a personality. And bonus, I don't have to go to a 'Queer' section to get a copy and feel like I have a neon sign flashing the word "****GOT!" over my head.

I don't expect you to understand the value of that, because you aren't in the position of being constantly told that your place in life is either to help straight people with their relationship problems, or to be bullied to the point of killing yourself. Or that your stories are unimportant and need to be kept separate from everyone else's.

Plaintiff have you ever read some of China Mieville's books? If you haven't you should read Iron Council. I think you'll like it.


Anyway I think a lot of you who don't get Plaintiff's reasoning would benefit a LOT from a cultural studies course. And I mean that in the most non-condescending way possible. For instance there's a lot of theorists who talk about how in today's consumer society we build our identities around the stuff we buy (or the stuff we buy is an extension of our identities which makes more sense IMO), that you can either support the current hegemony, the status quo or whatever you wanna call it or you can subvert it. Buying a product that happens to represent your minority without turning it into a one dimensional caricature is not weird at all. It's very understandable. It's a small rebellion, in the grand scheme of things, but it means a lot to even have that option. I realize it must be getting kinda sawn off to keep hearing "you don't understand" but you guys don't understand.

[Ausstig]

No because Dragon Age isn't boring to play.

Seriously, Witcher 2 is the most boring game I have played, the prologue was cutscene after cutscene and the combat is weak, only two attacks with swords and a bit of magic.

So no I do not think that "The Wild Hunt" SHOULD be a major competitor.

But if they are released around the same time, of course they will be competitors, they are both similar genres and game types.

[Metalspoon60]

OP you picked the wrong place to ask...

[HiroVoid]

Metalspoon60 wrote...

OP you picked the wrong place to ask...

I'm just gonna assume he asked it exactly where he wanted.

Slightly off-topic, but I do hope that Dragon Age: Inquisition has an antagonist as good as Letho was.  He's basically the perfect form of what Kai Leng in Mass Effect 3 should have been.

[Nohvarr]

HiroVoid wrote...

Metalspoon60 wrote...

OP you picked the wrong place to ask...

I'm just gonna assume he asked it exactly where he wanted.

Slightly off-topic, but I do hope that Dragon Age: Inquisition has an antagonist as good as Letho was.  He's basically the perfect form of what Kai Leng in Mass Effect 3 should have been.

I actually disagree with that. Kai Leng was never meant to be more than 'The Dragon' in ME 3 whereas Lethos story is a bit more important to the overall narrative of TW3. Letho is a valid threat, Kai Lengis just lucky. I mean Leng almost got dropped in a fist fight by Thane who is on his last leg, and then get's away from Shepard later because the gound drops out from underneath the commander. Kai Leng is also not as present in the Story as TIM or Letho. Letho is there pretty much from the beginning and makes it personal by the actons he takes in the prologue. This makes confronting him a major goal throughout the game, with you slowly uncovering his plans and nature throughout the rest of it.

To make it simple, Letho is the Dagon Ascendant, whereas Kai Leng is just the Dragon to the more important antagonist, TIM.

IMHO

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

I'm gonna enjoy both.

A fence sitter? What the hell is this? 

Get back in line, soldier. You're not allowed to like two things at the same time. 

*shoots a spitball at the people under the other banner.*

[Reznore57]

I don't think I will buy Witcher3 , Witcher 2 was good...but the overall story didn't hold my attention much.I didn't finish the game , I end up watching it on Youtube.
Letho was kinda cool , the Roche/Iorveth stuff ...meh.
One was killing elves to keep order /the other was killing humans to bring changes.
Iorveth was hot , so I sided with him.
My Geralt was a closeted gay as far as I'm concerned , so all the scenes with Triss got awkward pretty fast.The elven bath scene was pretty glorious .
"Oh Geralt let's take a bath."
"I wonder what Iorveth is doing"
"Oh Geralt look at me , I'm all wet" *wink* *wink*
"Well find a towel or something ,woman.There's a hot elf out there !I don't have time for this!"
"...."

[Ailith Tycane]

Well having gone through the comments I'm amazed that a moderator hasn't stepped in already.

As for the people complaining about Plaintiff's logic, I would ask you to take a step back and try to imagine living in a world where you aren't represented at all in the media. I know, it's hard to imagine if you happen to be a white straight man, but just try to imagine it. Your video games and movies are populated with people who don't look like you, don't act like you, and don't like what you like. It sucks, it really does. This is why gay gamers get so excited about potential gay romances in games. This is why people of color get so excited when they have the choice to play as a person of color. This is why women get so excited when they can play a female character. It gives them an opportunity to not just be represented in their media, but to actually play out the actual role of their choosing, not just the role of the white heterosexual male.

These options or choices don't take anything away from your experience, so I don't see any point in you even giving it a fraction of your concern. If he wants to play Bioware games because he gets to play as a character of his choosing who gets to romance other dudes, then I think that's great. And even if you personally don't think it's great, well then guess what, Bioware still gives you the option to play as a white heterosexual male, so everyone wins here. When you are the majority there is no point in beating people down when a company decides it would be cool to throw them a bone once in a while. You still have thousands of games out there that cater to you, including The Witcher franchise, so just play what you like without berating people in minority groups, yeah?

Modifié par Ailith430, 11 novembre 2013 - 09:42 .

[Malanek]

The Witcher 2 was good enough, and I have read all the English translated books, but I don't really like the direction they seem to be taking TW3. I strongly dislike the elder scroll games and I felt TW2, despite an excellent plot, was already a bit slow and laborious at times. Throwing in lots more sidequests and open space is not what I am after and TW2 gameplay was no where near good enough to carry it through a slow paced, unfocused, game.

Having said all that, I'll probably still pick it up, but my expectations are not high.

[AtreiyaN7]

Seeing as I hate Geralt as a character (and his English VA) and dislike the portrayal of women dating back to TW1 (which I still regret wasting $5 on in Steam), TW3 won't be any competition in my case. I don't know about other people, though.

[BouncyFrag]

Big budget RPGs dont grow in trees so I'll be loving both. I game for fun without pining away for the baggage of the 'real world' to be beating me over the head as I do it.

Modifié par BouncyFrag, 11 novembre 2013 - 10:18 .

[Br3admax]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
The point is I get to play a gay character. More than that, I get to play a gay hero.

Do you know how many gay characters there are in fiction, period? Because it's not a lot. And the few that exist consist mostly of one-dimnesional, offensively stereotypical sidekicks to straight women.

The only time a gay character gets to be a protagonist of anything, it's a boring drama where everybody weeps about how super-duper hard it is to be gay. Hell, gay male protagonists are getting off lightly if they haven't committed suicide or been murdered by the end of the story. And the characters are shallow and boring as hell because hack writers think that making a character gay means they don't need any other personality traits. And, of course, it's in the 'Queer' section of your local book or film store, because gay stories don't deserve to be told alongside those of our heterosexual superiors. It doesn't matter if the book/movie is a comedy or a tragedy or a horror or whatever. If it's about gay people, it goes on the 'Queer' shelf. Imagine if your local DVD store had a 'Black' section, and all the Will Smith and Eddie Murphy movies were in there.

Dragon Age is one of a scant few media products where a gay character can a) be an action hero and have a personality. And bonus, I don't have to go to a 'Queer' section to get a copy and feel like I have a neon sign flashing the word "****GOT!" over my head.

I don't expect you to understand the value of that, because you aren't in the position of being constantly told that your place in life is either to help straight people with their relationship problems, or to be bullied to the point of killing yourself. Or that your stories are unimportant and need to be kept separate from everyone else's.

Plaintiff have you ever read some of China Mieville's books? If you haven't you should read Iron Council. I think you'll like it.


Anyway I think a lot of you who don't get Plaintiff's reasoning would benefit a LOT from a cultural studies course. And I mean that in the most non-condescending way possible. For instance there's a lot of theorists who talk about how in today's consumer society we build our identities around the stuff we buy (or the stuff we buy is an extension of our identities which makes more sense IMO), that you can either support the current hegemony, the status quo or whatever you wanna call it or you can subvert it. Buying a product that happens to represent your minority without turning it into a one dimensional caricature is not weird at all. It's very understandable. It's a small rebellion, in the grand scheme of things, but it means a lot to even have that option. I realize it must be getting kinda sawn off to keep hearing "you don't understand" but you guys don't understand.

Dragon Age isn't a dating sim nor is it a place to push your real life issues into a media that literally no one else care's about because everyone has their own unique story. Second, if you play games to live out your normal life, go live your normal life. You aren't making a statement. You aren't representing your minority. You aren't convincing anyone to do anything. You are sitting at home, in front of a TV, wasting time when you can be out in the real world doing these things were people actually look. Third, Dragon Age doesn't represent homosexuals. Where this reasoning came from, I don't know, but I recommend a return to sender and that you file a complaint. Fourth, status quo? What does RPing a gay character in a video game have to do with anything? Will this encourage people to force more gay protagonist because, completely disregarding the rest of their fanbase for the marginally few who only play their games to be gay? Really? 

Modifié par Br3ad, 11 novembre 2013 - 10:16 .

[Nightdragon8]

Br3ad wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
The point is I get to play a gay character. More than that, I get to play a gay hero.

Do you know how many gay characters there are in fiction, period? Because it's not a lot. And the few that exist consist mostly of one-dimnesional, offensively stereotypical sidekicks to straight women.

The only time a gay character gets to be a protagonist of anything, it's a boring drama where everybody weeps about how super-duper hard it is to be gay. Hell, gay male protagonists are getting off lightly if they haven't committed suicide or been murdered by the end of the story. And the characters are shallow and boring as hell because hack writers think that making a character gay means they don't need any other personality traits. And, of course, it's in the 'Queer' section of your local book or film store, because gay stories don't deserve to be told alongside those of our heterosexual superiors. It doesn't matter if the book/movie is a comedy or a tragedy or a horror or whatever. If it's about gay people, it goes on the 'Queer' shelf. Imagine if your local DVD store had a 'Black' section, and all the Will Smith and Eddie Murphy movies were in there.

Dragon Age is one of a scant few media products where a gay character can a) be an action hero and have a personality. And bonus, I don't have to go to a 'Queer' section to get a copy and feel like I have a neon sign flashing the word "****GOT!" over my head.

I don't expect you to understand the value of that, because you aren't in the position of being constantly told that your place in life is either to help straight people with their relationship problems, or to be bullied to the point of killing yourself. Or that your stories are unimportant and need to be kept separate from everyone else's.

Plaintiff have you ever read some of China Mieville's books? If you haven't you should read Iron Council. I think you'll like it.


Anyway I think a lot of you who don't get Plaintiff's reasoning would benefit a LOT from a cultural studies course. And I mean that in the most non-condescending way possible. For instance there's a lot of theorists who talk about how in today's consumer society we build our identities around the stuff we buy (or the stuff we buy is an extension of our identities which makes more sense IMO), that you can either support the current hegemony, the status quo or whatever you wanna call it or you can subvert it. Buying a product that happens to represent your minority without turning it into a one dimensional caricature is not weird at all. It's very understandable. It's a small rebellion, in the grand scheme of things, but it means a lot to even have that option. I realize it must be getting kinda sawn off to keep hearing "you don't understand" but you guys don't understand.

Dragon Age isn't a dating sim nor is it a place to push your real life issues into a media that literally no one else care's about because everyone has their own unique story. Second, if you play games to live out your normal life, go live your normal life. You aren't making a statement. You aren't representing your minority. You aren't convincing anyone to do anything. You are sitting at home, in front of a TV, wasting time when you can be out in the real world doing these things were people actually look. Third, Dragon Age doesn't represent homosexuals. Where this reasoning came from, I don't know, but I recommend a return to sender and that you file a complaint. Fourth, status quo? What does RPing a gay character in a video game have to do with anything? Will this encourage people to force more gay protagonist because, completely disregarding the rest of their fanbase for the marginally few who only play their games to be gay? Really? 

The biggest thing is really that, unless you are doing a LP on youtube about this gay hero, it escapes everyone else. No one sees it but you, and thats fine but, anything about status quo is then pretty much pointless, I mean if you think about ti if a game doesn't have a romance of any kind, you can prented that person is gay as well. Also you can play the witcher and not have sex with anyone. the doesn't "require" you to bang anyone. (well in witcher 2 its pretty much a given that, one woman and you are banging but if you play the story right you don't see the scene)

but whatever floats your boat. I personally think its a stupid reason not to play or to play a game. but whatever

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 11 novembre 2013 - 11:48 .

[General TSAR]

Br3ad wrote...
Dragon Age isn't a dating sim nor is it a place to push your real life issues into a media that literally no one else care's about because everyone has their own unique story. Second, if you play games to live out your normal life, go live your normal life. You aren't making a statement. You aren't representing your minority. You aren't convincing anyone to do anything. You are sitting at home, in front of a TV, wasting time when you can be out in the real world doing these things were people actually look. Third, Dragon Age doesn't represent homosexuals. Where this reasoning came from, I don't know, but I recommend a return to sender and that you file a complaint. Fourth, status quo? What does RPing a gay character in a video game have to do with anything? Will this encourage people to force more gay protagonist because, completely disregarding the rest of their fanbase for the marginally few who only play their games to be gay? Really? 

PREACH IT BRUTHA.

[sandalisthemaker]

THIS THREAD IS HOMOPHOBIC