375 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

KaiserShep wrote...

There's something odd about the whole connectedness thing that synthesis suggests that I find incompatible with the way humanity actually functions. Heck, in our own reality, I would expect that sudden and universal augmentation of our own species (without changing the fundamental framework of their minds) to cause global panic and even mass suicides as people freak the f*ck out, but that's me lol.

Becasue of Sythesis, I knew that you would react this way. However, your wanting to end your own life is not inline with our solution. Thus it had to be prevented....for the greater good. 

[Rasofe]

I wouldn't go so far as to guess what kind of people like Synthesis, but I as a self-conscious anthropocentrist can't say I'd be sorry if the original ending was Destroy, Control, and Reject.

[Iakus]

KaiserShep wrote...

There's something odd about the whole connectedness thing that synthesis suggests that I find incompatible with the way humanity actually functions. Heck, in our own reality, I would expect that sudden and universal augmentation of our own species (without changing the fundamental framework of their minds) to cause global panic and even mass suicides as people freak the f*ck out, but that's me lol.

It's forcing everyone to submit to the Qun

Even if you have to give some people qamak to do it

[Rasofe]

Overall, Synthesis worst part is being the least thematically consistent with the rest of the trilogy. With Control and Destroy you can use the Spiral Coils theory to explain how they eventually extend into the cooperative versus dominative dichotomy (given how Shepard decides the fates of the races before the ending, we can project what a Paragon Control future or a Renegade Destroy future would look like).
Synthesis on the other hand feels like a blank slate. Didn't cure the genophage? IS fine, they're part synth now, probably fixed anyway. Didn't save the geth or quarians? IS fine, they're all synth now. I don't know what kind of future is in store for Synthesis, but regardless of what your actions were in the trilogy the species of the galaxy are all set on the same path now. Synthesis drops the theme motif completely.

[Rasofe]

StreetMagic wrote...

Just to add, Nietzsche's overman embodies the earth. His values and creativity and identity stream from a lust for life, in it's most basic, childlike sense.

"The overman is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the overman shall be the meaning of the earth! I beseech you, my brothers, remain faithful to the earth, and do not believe those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poison-mixers are they, whether they know it or not. Despisers of life are they, decaying and poisoned themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so let them go.

Once the sin against God was the greatest sin; but God died, and these sinners died with him. To sin against the earth is now the most dreadful thing, and to esteem the entrails of the unknowable higher than the meaning of the earth..."

Anyways, that's all I can say about it. I'd leave it to people to debate synthesis. I'm just here to hate on it. I don't think I need to carry on about it.

Nietzsche clearly didn't follow the First Principle so nothing he ever said was really relevant.
That can be said about most philosophers, though.
First Principle of Humanity: Anything beneficient is beneficient to the trait called humanity, which benefits itself.
Laymans terms: Human == Good.
Foregoing this principle will lead to contradictions to reality because you then allow humanity to be a bad thing. Notice that I don't define the trait humanity - that's because it's not definable, it's determinable through research. Beneficient is really just the same as that used for symbiotic lifeform analysis, so no mystery there.

Synthesis is basically breaking that principle. Not because the synth humans aren't human, that as I said is a determinable quality. It's because the Catalyst basically expresses that humanity can't remain itself if it is to survive. It suggests Synthesis, therefore it has already discarded the first principle and claimed that humanity is not beneficient to humanity. No matter how you turn it, it defaults to being fundamentally wrong.

The catalyst is not an overman, though. You have to be an anthropod to be an overman. It's a psychetype, it doesn't apply to AI who are a different sentience alltogether.

[Rasofe]

Or woman.
Humanity certainly doesn't deserve Synthesis. If someone writes a Shepard who is willing to pick Synthesis, I'd think we'd be better of with Kaidan reaching the beam instead.

[Steelcan]

StreetMagic wrote...
English needs gender inclusive nouns/pronouns.

"He" is technically the default pronoun in english if a person's gender is unknown. 

No need to invent a new word it already exists, some people just take issue with its percieved male bias.

Modifié par Steelcan, 22 novembre 2013 - 09:57 .

[dreamgazer]

Steelcan wrote...

"He" is technically the default pronoun in english if a person's gender is unknown. 

I'm perfectly fine using "they". 

[Steelcan]

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

"He" is technically the default pronoun in english if a person's gender is unknown. 

I'm perfectly fine using "they". 

"They" comes off as too impersonal, repeated use is a bit grating on the ears, and its longer

[Rasofe]

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

"He" is technically the default pronoun in english if a person's gender is unknown. 

I'm perfectly fine using "they". 

"They" comes off as too impersonal, repeated use is a bit grating on the ears, and its longer

Sorry man, but political correctness comes with its price.

[Killdren88]

*Thousands of tears from now the first ship from a different Galaxy enters the Milky way and is stopped by a Synthesized Reaper along with smaller ships* We are the Ascended. Prepare to be docked and detained. We will bring you and your galaxy into harmony with us. Defiance is pointless. Prepare for ascension."

And that is how ME4 will play out if it went with the Synthesis ending. We are the villains invading other worlds and assimilating them.

[Rasofe]

What would be the point of that? Would anyone want that at all?

[Obadiah]

StreetMagic wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Well, Nieztsche's overmen are identified primarily by their approach to morality, so I think Obadiah's statement about the transcendence of belief works quite well with him.

Not just morality, but their whole identity and sense of creativity. The overman is autonomous in every respect. No one tells him/her something like what Kaisershep pointed out. "You can't."

The overman says "**** you, yes I can."

The Catalyst, in a way, is trying to be the "overman" in this exchange. He's imposing his will. Shepard is free to do the same. He just has to believe in himself.

You know, if Synthetics are looked at as our tools, then through the Catalyst and the Reapers, we are uplifitng ourselves... in a supremely ******-up way. The uplift could be any of the endings really.

Anyway, thanks for the book recommendation Thus Spoke Zarathustra. Looks like its free over here. I'll take a look.

Also, why couldn't Synthesis beings be considered Overmen? They seem... "uplifted." Or are Overmen still supposed to be completely human, devoid of integrated Synthetic assistance, just behave differently?

Modifié par Obadiah, 26 janvier 2014 - 02:34 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

Synthesis, eh?

Child: Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology.
Harbinger: Embrace perfection.
Harbinger: I am the harbinger of your perfection.
Harbinger: We are the harbinger of your perfection.

Child: Synthesis is the final evolution of all life.
Sovereign: We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence.
Sovereign: We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution.

Child: Add your energy to the crucible's. Your organic energy, the essence of who and what you are, will be broken down and then dispersed.
Harbinger: Relinquish your form to us.

Child: The Reapers will cease their harvest, and the civilizations preserved in their forms will be connected to all of us.
Harbinger: We will bring your species into harmony with our own.
Harbinger: They will be as we are.
Harbinger: We are your genetic destiny.

Child: Now that we know it is possible, it is inevitable we will reach synthesis.
Harbinger: Evolution cannot be stopped.
Harbinger: Progress cannot be halted.

EDI (synthesis ending): To reach a level of existence I cannot even imagine.
Sovereign: There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even imagine it.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 26 janvier 2014 - 04:12 .

[AlanC9]

Jeez, Obadiah... since when did you go in for necro?

[Obadiah]

@DoomsdayDevice
That just makes Synthesis ironic.

Also ironic, that you've created a synthesis of quotes from sources that probably don't support your conclusion to advocate your position.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Synthesis, eh?

Child: Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology.
Harbinger: Embrace perfection.
Harbinger: I am the harbinger of your perfection.
Harbinger: We are the harbinger of your perfection.

Child: Synthesis is the final evolution of all life.
Sovereign: We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence.
Sovereign: We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution.

Child: Add your energy to the crucible's. Your organic energy, the essence of who and what you are, will be broken down and then dispersed.
Harbinger: Relinquish your form to us.

Child: The Reapers will cease their harvest, and the civilizations preserved in their forms will be connected to all of us.
Harbinger: We will bring your species into harmony with our own.
Harbinger: They will be as we are.
Harbinger: We are your genetic destiny.

Child: Now that we know it is possible, it is inevitable we will reach synthesis.
Harbinger: Evolution cannot be stopped.
Harbinger: Progress cannot be halted.

EDI (synthesis ending): To reach a level of existence I cannot even imagine.
Sovereign: There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even imagine it.

Right, because IT'ers don't totally sound brainwashed or anything. 

[DoomsdayDevice]

Right, because you're supposed to ignore everything the previous games taught you, because "bad writing hurr".

[teh DRUMPf!!]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Right, because you're supposed to ignore everything the previous games taught you, because "bad writing hurr".

lol ... how little you know of me.

In any case, we already have dorktrainian and NeonFlux### around here to serve the regular dose of "Open your minds to us, and you too can taste the brilliance!"-hynosis (at least, until they themselves break out of the trance and complain about the ending like any other anti-ender). We don't need more crazy; we're full up. Fare you well!

[Obadiah]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Right, because you're supposed to ignore everything the previous games taught you, because "bad writing hurr".

Mass Effect 3 is supposed to be playable as a standalone game, so it is supposed to be understandable by itself.

Besides, what the 3 games "taught" me is that the Reapers gifts given in exchange for something on their terms is not to be trusted. Taking their technology on your own terms is... well... maybe not "fine", but not part of the Reaper's grand-master plan. Geth/Legion and Grunt (created with Collector information), are beings that used the Reaper tech on their own terms. So did Shepard in ME3 when he salvages Reaper tech on missions.

In addition, the whole idea of man's sense of perfectibility is not something I'm against. Surely we do use technology to improve our our lifestyles, our station within the environment, and to "perfect" ourselves when we detect imperfections (bad eyesight, bad heart, etc...).

Modifié par Obadiah, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:17 .

[AlanC9]

Obadiah wrote...

@DoomsdayDevice
That just makes Synthesis ironic.

Also ironic, that you've created a synthesis of quotes from sources that probably don't support your conclusion to advocate your position.

I think you're on to something here. What is IT but a revolt against the mere possibility that TIM and Saren might actually have been right about something despite being villains?

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:18 .

[Darks1d3]

 Huh, I always thought some form of lunacy was required before you could  became a regular here on BSN. 

EDIT: Heh. BSN, where they send all those people with "gifted" minds to keep them out of the real world for their own safety. Or for the safety of everyone else.

Modifié par Darks1d3, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:28 .