132 réponses à ce sujet

[friezen]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

friezen wrote...

I think a mix of ME1 and ME2/3 cooldowns should be used where tech powers share the same cooldown, biotic powers share a cooldown, etc. And to compensate for adepts and engineers, they could fire two powers in a row before triggering a cooldown.

No. Just, no.

This was actually brought up a few times in the ME2 forums, that is, the idea to separate cooldows of different types, such as tech, biotic, and combat. 

The conclusion was always the same: it would only benefit Sentinels.

If you look at the class power sets in ME3 -- and to a lesser extent, ME2 -- in terms of powers that cause cooldowns, the Soldier has only combat powers, the Infiltrator and Engineer only tech powers, and the Adept and Vanguard only biotic powers. Only the Sentinel has different power types competing for cooldown, namely biotic and tech. 

With a bonus power, then the other 5 classes could get two different power types competing for cooldowns, but then the Sentinel could get 3. It is an unfair tradeoff.

I still think it could work if you take into account what I said about soldiers/adepts/engineers getting to use two, maybe three, powers in a row before cooldown.  But you're absolutely right about the infiltrators and vanguards.  I'm just always looking for ways to make things more realistic, and having a power from a biotic amp using the exact same cooldown time as a power from an omni tool doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  But I guess that isn't the point of this topic, so...

[TheMyron]

The Infiltrator's cloaking device should last must longer, considering the fact that the enemy seems to be able to hold it indefinitely...

[TheMyron]

cap and gown wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

cap and gown wrote...

TheMyron wrote...


Dammit, Why did Bioware the Alliance remove that lab? I liked it...

From what I can tell, you are in the minority there.

You gotta poll or something to prove that?

I am not sure I saw a poll, or it is just my sense from reading various reviews, but I got the distinct impression that people prefered the moddable system of ME3. Perhaps not the 10 levels stuff, but they dislike the vanilla research upgrade thingy.

Because people who are dumb, prefer things when they dumbed down. Going from Weapon I to Weapon X with all stat changes practically unnoticeable not the way I want it. Mordin's Lab upgrades told you exactly what your getting, and the changes were noticeable.

[RedCaesar97]

friezen wrote...
I still think it could work if you take into account what I said about soldiers/adepts/engineers getting to use two, maybe three, powers in a row before cooldown.  But you're absolutely right about the infiltrators and vanguards.  I'm just always looking for ways to make things more realistic, and having a power from a biotic amp using the exact same cooldown time as a power from an omni tool doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  But I guess that isn't the point of this topic, so...

The problem about allowing 2-3 powers in a row is that it brings us back to ME1 mechanics where you could use a bunch of powers in a row, which means you need ridiculously long cooldowns on powers to "balance" them.

In my opinion, the global cooldown means -- for the most part -- you need to use the right power at the right time, not just spam powers. And for certain classes, this also means using certain squadmates to get the most out of your own powers.

As for the biotic amps/omni tool sharing a cooldown, I am pretty sure this was also discussed during ME2. Doubt I could find the threads now. But it generally was not debated too much since most powers had a base 3-6 second cooldown so you were never waiting too long between powers. Also, Shepard's Omni Tool and Biotic Amp upgrades in ME2 were part of "Armor", so blah blah space magic all power runs through the suit hand wave look over there.

Now, should gameplay support lore? Ideally yes, and in most cases it does. But in the end, gameplay should trump lore; and lore can always be stretched/rewritten/updated when needed.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 22 novembre 2013 - 11:42 .

[TheMyron]

RedCaesar97 wrote...



Now, should gameplay support lore? Ideally yes, and in most cases it does. But in the end, gameplay should trump lore; and lore can always be stretched/rewritten/updated when needed.

That's why I like the idea of one massive game, that has all the good things with none of the bad. And I am tired of seeing the rule "if its not broken, don't fix it" getting violated over and over again.

[TheMyron]

Female Turian NPC's should be located all over the HUB worlds, not just two isolated cases on two separate DLCs.

[capn233]

Global cooldown is better for the gameplay.

[Soja57]

Have bigger maps. I remember in ME1 being perched on a tall hill looking down at an enemy squad through my sniper rifle scope on some uncharted world. Not saying uncharted worlds were particularly great, but a few occasions of really long range engagements was fresh.

I think ME3 had too much weapons and the weapon types had to much overlap compared to ME2. Bringing back range modifiers and protection multipliers for each weapon like in ME2 would be good, along with having a number of weapons between ME2 and ME3.

I really like the different evolutions for powers in ME3, but ME2 has the right amount of powers; 5 for Shep and 3 for each squadmate. ME3 had too much powers, and also brought a ridiculous amount of points in ME3, maxing out nearly every power.

[TheMyron]

Soja57 wrote...

Have bigger maps. I remember in ME1 being perched on a tall hill looking down at an enemy squad through my sniper rifle scope on some uncharted world. Not saying uncharted worlds were particularly great, but a few occasions of really long range engagements was fresh.

I think ME3 had too much weapons and the weapon types had to much overlap compared to ME2. Bringing back range modifiers and protection multipliers for each weapon like in ME2 would be good, along with having a number of weapons between ME2 and ME3.

I really like the different evolutions for powers in ME3, but ME2 has the right amount of powers; 5 for Shep and 3 for each squadmate. ME3 had too much powers, and also brought a ridiculous amount of points in ME3, maxing out nearly every power.

Maxing out is good, you finally reached "ultimate badass".

[RedCaesar97]

Soja57 wrote...
Have bigger maps. I remember in ME1 being perched on a tall hill looking down at an enemy squad through my sniper rifle scope on some uncharted world. Not saying uncharted worlds were particularly great, but a few occasions of really long range engagements was fresh.

I think ME3 had too much weapons and the weapon types had to much overlap compared to ME2. Bringing back range modifiers and protection multipliers for each weapon like in ME2 would be good, along with having a number of weapons between ME2 and ME3.

Bigger maps would be nice. Although I think the smaller maps may have been a limitation of the game engine itself. I wish I could recall the post I saw on that which explained it better. I also recall a post where someone said "Bigger maps are great, but it also means you have to travel a greater distance." Something to think about I guess.

As for bigger maps, you only really had wide-open spaces on Uncharted Worlds, where you were supposed to use the Mako. Other than that, most of the environments you fought in were as large/small as the maps found in ME2 and ME3.

I also agree with your views on weapons. ME3 had too much overlap at times due to the lack of range modifiers and also too much crap, even with the balance changes. The protection multipliers was a good way to separate weapon types.

The range modifiers was nice, but you could get away without it if you tweaked shotgun damage to compensate. Shotguns would need wider spread again or not as many additive accuracy buffs.

TheMyron wrote...

Soja57 wrote...
I really like the different evolutions for powers in ME3, but ME2 has the right amount of powers; 5 for Shep and 3 for each squadmate. ME3 had too much powers, and also brought a ridiculous amount of points in ME3, maxing out nearly every power.

Maxing out is good, you finally reached "ultimate badass".

But maxing out discourages multiple builds. In ME2, limited points meant you had to think about which powers go the points. Combined with a bonus power, this lead to some pretty diverse builds for each class, especially since you also had a unique/bonus weapon to consider as well. In ME3, you have too many points which leads to no real incentive to try new builds.


I agree with Soja57 in that ME2 had the right amount of powers. 

Actually, I think ME3 had a good amount of powers, but some were poorly thought out. For example, between ME2 and ME3, each class gained Fitness, which was not really needed. This seems more of a multiplayer thing that got added to single player.

Each class also gained a new class-exclusive power, but... Vanguard got Nova and Engineer got Sentry Turret. Regardless of what you think of the powers themselves, they fit in well with the class. Every other class got some type of grenade. It looks lazy, considering you have two different types of biotic grenades.

[TheMyron]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

TheMyron wrote...
The Mantis and Black Widow having equal damage is just silly.

The Black Widow should never have existed in the first place, at least in my opinion. (And neither should the Wraith or Paladin. Both guns are just stupid in my opinion, not having a good place in the game.)

What's wrong with having a newer, upgraded version of another weapon?

[OH-UP-THIS!]

OP, A direct answer................................the ending would still suck.

[Soja57]

 @RedCeasar97
Fitness should have merged with the Class Passive, or perhaps go into armor bonuses instead. But in exchange, bring back specializations like in the first Mass Effect.

So for example, the Vanguard would have the Asssault Mastery tree, and a locked Specialization tree. The 6th evolution of Assault Mastery would unlock the Specialization, and would either be Champion or Destroyer, depending on the evolution chosen. Each specialization would have its own tree, granting unique global bonuses. Such bonuses could include adding radius bonuses to all powers, even to powers that don't have an inital radius. This would make Incendiary Ammo or Biotic Charge potentially affect more targets. Or maybe even unlock a 7th power for all powers (OMG 7 points for one evolution).

The idea is to allow the player to create even more diverse builds, and I think some sort of Specialization system would allow this.

The class-exclusive powers actually aren't too bad. The only one I have a real issue with are Sticky Grenades and Frag Grenades for the Infiltrator and Soldier. If the Soldier got Stim Packs, and the Infiltrator got Tactical Scan or Arc Grenades that would have been awesome.

[TheMyron]

ohupthis wrote...

OP, A direct answer................................the ending would still suck.

Brushing the story aside, now give me a new answer...

[RedCaesar97]

TheMyron wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...

TheMyron wrote...
The Mantis and Black Widow having equal damage is just silly.

The Black Widow should never have existed in the first place, at least in my opinion. (And neither should the Wraith or Paladin. Both guns are just stupid in my opinion, not having a good place in the game.)

What's wrong with having a newer, upgraded version of another weapon?

Because I get stuck with the old weapon and cannot get rid of it. 

And the Spectre Store weapons are not really supposed to be "upgrades", rather they are supposed to be/should be new and different weapons in a balanced weapon set.

The Paladin and Wraith are not really upgrades of any weapon, regardless of the description, at least before the balance changes. At launch, the Wraith was useless and the Paladin was not better than the Carnifex except you could get it earlier. The Black Widow, if you can call it an upgrade, is a heavier, stronger version of the Valiant. And the Valiant is one of the Collectors Edition exclusive weapons. After launch, the Wraith is now way too good. No idea about the Paladin, I have never used in Single Player and have only used it a handful of times in multiplayer. the Black Widow makes a joke of too many sniper rifles. 

Before ME3 was released, I recall reading or hearing one of the developers say they were happy with the weapon balance. Not sure what happened to the weapon balance between that statement and the game's release, because the weapon balance was atrocious. Even after many balance changes, there is still no balance. there are just too many overpowered DLC weapons and way too many woefully underpowered launch weapons.

So basically, in a game where single player and multiplayer shared weapons and there was supposed to be weapon balance, the Spectre Weapons ended up being some of the most imbalanced guns in the game.

[RedCaesar97]

Soja57 wrote...

 @RedCeasar97
Fitness should have merged with the Class Passive, or perhaps go into armor bonuses instead. But in exchange, bring back specializations like in the first Mass Effect.

So for example, the Vanguard would have the Asssault Mastery tree, and a locked Specialization tree. The 6th evolution of Assault Mastery would unlock the Specialization, and would either be Champion or Destroyer, depending on the evolution chosen. Each specialization would have its own tree, granting unique global bonuses. Such bonuses could include adding radius bonuses to all powers, even to powers that don't have an inital radius. This would make Incendiary Ammo or Biotic Charge potentially affect more targets. Or maybe even unlock a 7th power for all powers (OMG 7 points for one evolution).

The idea is to allow the player to create even more diverse builds, and I think some sort of Specialization system would allow this.

First, I really really  like your idea of specializations. I had a similar thought months ago, but I think you fleshed it out better than I ever did in my mind (and I never wrote it down so you get all the credit). It would probably work better if it was a ME2-style single-evolution system instead of an ME3-style multiple-evolution system, unless you dropped the number of evolutions from 6 to 4. For example, for Soldier, I think trying to come up with 6 evolutions for both Commando and Shock Trooper would be difficult. 

Actually, dropping the number of evolutions from 6 to 4 would have been better for ME3 anyway, since most of the time, you had at least 2 evolutions that were absolute crap.

Soja57 wrote...
The class-exclusive powers actually aren't too bad. The only one I have a real issue with are Sticky Grenades and Frag Grenades for the Infiltrator and Soldier. If the Soldier got Stim Packs, and the Infiltrator got Tactical Scan or Arc Grenades that would have been awesome.

Tactical Scan on an Infiltrator would have been great, and would actually fit in very nicely with the Infiltrator theme.

My big problem with the grenades, besides being a limited resource and of little value in single player, is that they really could have been combined in one grenade, but made into evolutions instead. For example, you start with just grenades, but then your 6 evolutions could besomething like , in no particular order:
 - Disruptor grenades (Arc grenades), do more damage to shields
 - Inferno grenades, do more damage to armor and add fire damage over time
 - Warp grenades, do more damage to barriers, (and can detonate biotic explosions?)
 - Sticky grenades
 - Grenade count
 - Cryo grenades, can freeze unprotected enemies and weaken armor



The thing is, the Soldier also already started out with 2 unique class powers: Adrenaline Rush and Concussive Shot. Giving the soldier grenades just gave it 3 unique powers instead of two. 

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 26 novembre 2013 - 01:36 .

[TheMyron]

Grenade shape and trajectory should be that of ME3, but changing its type, (incendiary, cryo, warp, gas, etc.) should be as easy as in ME1.

I agree.

[capn233]

Like the specialization idea.

Also like grenade evolutions. I think the evolutions should depend on class though... whether you are tech, biotic or combat.

[Soja57]

capn233 wrote...8 a. Class weapon restrictions from ME2, in modified form. Roll advanced weapon training into a passive evolution opposed to power damage or recharge speed. This would be something of a hybrid of ME2's system and the ME1 weapon talent system.

I like this suggestion, and I think grenades should be rolled into the passive as well. With this, power trees need to be revamped. All power trees now only have 5 ranks instead of 6 for a total of 15 talent points per power. The first rank is always used to unlock the power, but the 4 other ranks now have two choices like in ME3. Below is an example of passives and specialization of the Engineer, incorporating a grenade and weapon training evolution as well.

Tech Mastery
Improve survivability while boosting the effectiveness of powers from your omni-tool.

Health/Shields +15%
Power Damage +10%
Cooldown +10%

2a = Health/Shields +10%
2b = Power Damage +10%

3a = Power Cooldown +10%
3b = Shield Regen Delay -15%

4a = Power Damage/Cooldown +10%
4b = Health/Shields +15%

5a = Unlock Mechanic Specialization
5b = Unlock Demolisher Specialization

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Mechanic Specialization
Specialize in crowd control and debuffing enemies while boosting squad performance.

Squad Power Duration +30% (Applies for Shepard and the entire squad)

2a = Grenades now snap-freeze unprotected targets, while weakening and slowing down protected targets.
2b = Health/Shields +25%

3a = Heavy Melee temporarily freezes targets and slows down/weakens protected targets.
3b = Squad Power Duration/Cooldown +20% (Applies for Shepard and the entire squad)

4a = Power Radius +2.00 meters (also applies to powers that don't have innate radius)
4b = Crowd Control abilities now work against protected health targets, but at half effectiveness (Cryo Blast can freeze Phantoms even if they have barriers but at 50% duration, debuff, etc.)

5a = Unlock 6th evolution for Cryo Blast, Combat Drone, and Sabotage
5b = Weapon Advanced Training (Choose Assault Rifle, Shotgun, or Sniper Rifle)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Demolisher Specialization
Specialize in obliterating enemy targets with powers from your omni-tool.

Power Damage vs Shields 1.5x

2a = Grenades now release an EMP effect that deals 1.5x damage vs shields and synthetics
2b = Health/Shields +25%

3a = Heavy Melee deals bonus damage to shields and synthetics while restoring your own (like Energy Drain)
3b = Power Cooldown +20%

4a = Power Radius +2.00 meters
4b = Power Damage vs Shields 1.2x (multiplies base shield multiplier, giving up to 1.8x)

5a = Unlock 6th evolution for Incinerate, Overload, and Sentry Turret
5b = Weapon Advanced Training (Choose Assault Rifle, Shotgun, or Sniper Rifle)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

This is just an example, I know some things aren't balanced, but the key is to present the concept of specializations and integrating grenades and weapon training into the specialization.

Modifié par Soja57, 28 novembre 2013 - 07:31 .

[TheMyron]

Should special ammo be a manual addition like in ME1, a "power" like in ME2 and ME3, or maybe a third option?

[Soja57]

TheMyron wrote...

Should special ammo be a manual addition like in ME1, a "power" like in ME2 and ME3, or maybe a third option?

I'm not sure how to handle special ammo. While I would prefer like how it was in ME1, the ammo upgrades weren't significant with only a few exceptions. This is so that caster classes wouldn't dominate just by shooting with ammo upgrades. However, ME2 made the ammo powers more awesome, but having them serve as powers for combat classes which I thought was kind of lazy designing. While the ammo powers emphasize the combat classes on using weapons, I still think there is a better approach to special ammo.

Though one thing that could work is allowing every class to use ammo powers, since the ME3 MP already allows this. Then combat classes gain a special evolution in their passive or specialization that boosts the performance of the ammo power. For example, one evolution could dramatically boost the damage or add an explosive effect to ammo powers.

[RedCaesar97]

TheMyron wrote...

Should special ammo be a manual addition like in ME1, a "power" like in ME2 and ME3, or maybe a third option?

I prefer ammo as powers, like in ME2 and ME3. 

The problem with having them available as a mod instead of a power requires you to come up with more combat powers for Soldier, Vanguard, and Infiltrator. A lot of the combat powers we currently have are not terribly interesting or good in my opinion.

And in ME1, the combat powers were tied to weapons; a neat idea but most of them broke their own weapon lore, at least in my opinion. Specifically, somehow Assassinate increased the damage of one shot but did not add any heat to the gun, Overkill magically reduced heat buildup, and Marksman magically allowed you to fire your gun faster while reducing heat buildup to compensate.

[RedCaesar97]

Okay, here is a new suggestion of my own: how about bringing back the ability to unlock Shepard's powers as bonus powers like you could in ME1 (with the exception of some class-exclusive powers).

That way you could put Disruptor Ammo on a Vanguard, Pull on a Soldier, Overload on an Infiltrator, and so on.

[billpickles]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Okay, here is a new suggestion of my own: how about bringing back the ability to unlock Shepard's powers as bonus powers like you could in ME1 (with the exception of some class-exclusive powers).

That way you could put Disruptor Ammo on a Vanguard, Pull on a Soldier, Overload on an Infiltrator, and so on.

Overload on an Infiltrator would be awesome fun but also massively overpowered.  I guess that's true of everything on an Infiltrator though.  This would certainly allow more variation in class design and would encourage playing as every class to unlock all possible bonus powers.  I like it.

[billpickles]

I really think you're on to something with your specialization proposal, Soja.  It probably needs some tweaking.  For instance, Demolisher seems WAY more powerful to me than Mechanic at first glance.  But I really like the structure of it and the way that it can create a lot more variation in how to spec each class.

Modifié par billpickles, 27 novembre 2013 - 01:04 .