138 réponses à ce sujet

[Jorji Costava]

I hope the poster who created this thread doesn't mind that I'm totally ripping off that idea, but I am genuinely curious to hear people's ideas about this. I'll start with just two:

Tali: I'll just limit myself to this suggestion. Having Tali be accused of smuggling active Geth parts or whatever was just a pretty boring hook for her loyalty mission. If Tali were actually guilty of this, my guess is that most players (who didn't hate her already) would probably not hate her or feel particularly stung by her actions; that seems like exactly the least interesting way to set up the mission.

Instead, I think that Tali should have been accused of something that actually seems really bad (to the player), and that the mission should do more to make salient the possibility that Tali is actually guilty of this Bad Thing. That would make the mission test the player's loyalty and trust in the character in a more impactful way. Whether or not she should actually be guilty of this misdeed is something I don't really have strong feelings about one way or the other.

Jacob: First thing would be to lose the daddy issues altogether. The Ronald Taylor subplot just didn't do it for me at all, since we'd already seen daddy issues about 20 or 30 times by that point. Instead, his loyalty mission should have some kind of relevance to whatever incidents led to him abandoning the Alliance and joining Cerberus in the first place. We need to get a sense of what concrete events led to his frustrations with Alliance red tape, so that we could understand his motivations.

Jacob's central conflict seems to revolve around his doubts about the decision to join Cerberus; the loyalty mission should be about dealing with those doubts. Presumably, it would conclude with either Jacob reaffirming his commitment to Cerberus, or with him realizing he needs to get the hell out of there after the current mission is concluded.

[DeinonSlayer]

I sense a character-bash thread in the making... may not even be the OP's intention, but it's gonna happen.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 12 novembre 2013 - 05:13 .

[Jorji Costava]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

I sense a character-bash thread in the making... may not even be the OP's intention, but it's gonna happen.

Or it could be an opportunity for constructive criticism. Obviously, that's not entirely under my or anyone else's control, but I suppose it's part of the risk that comes with posting random stuff on the internet.

[Iakus]

I would have made Morinth a more complex character than "Evil for the lulz"

Udina would have had an actual reason to going nuts and throwing in with Cerberus, rather than the lame "speculations" we're stuck with.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

I sense a character-bash thread in the making... may not even be the OP's intention, but it's gonna happen.

In before the Liara bashing.

[shit's fucked cunts]

I like all of the characters, even the ones I don't like.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

iakus wrote...

I would have made Morinth a more complex character than "Evil for the lulz"

Udina would have had an actual reason to going nuts and throwing in with Cerberus, rather than the lame "speculations" we're stuck with.

Actually it's kind of interesting since Udina was the Dictator of the Systems Alliance at the time since Arcturus Station had been turned to dust. Udina was having the Systems Alliance form an alliance with Cerberus because the he felt the Council was doing absolutely nothing to help Earth. Like I said he was the Supreme Leader of the Systems Alliance. He just wanted it like it was a few months earlier with Humans running the Council. 

What if he'd given the order to Hackett to start cooperating with Cerberus because we were now allies? 

[Jorji Costava]

iakus wrote...

I would have made Morinth a more complex character than "Evil for the lulz"

Udina would have had an actual reason to going nuts and throwing in with Cerberus, rather than the lame "speculations" we're stuck with.

I actually think the idea of having at least one character who you can't redeem with your psychoanalytic powers is a good one; perhaps not everyone has that inner spark of decency just waiting to be rekindled by the awesome PC. It's just that the circumstances in which you recruit Morinth don't make much sense. There needed to be more plausible pragmatic reasons as to why you might take Morinth instead of Samara.

I also agree with Udina; that was a character arc that needed to be seriously reworked. I'm not sure you couldn't omit the Citadel Coup mission without much damage to the overall plot, actually. No reason not to keep Udina around as the face of non-crazy pro-human politics.

[Bruce M. Shepard]

I was a bit let down by Tali's loyalty mission as well. I thought I(we) would have to do some actual investigating(given that there was even a trial) to uncover this something bad that had happened and figure out who set her up, maybe even a plot twist that would test our loyalty to her. finding her father's corpse even felt flat to me.

As for Jacob, I don't have any particular feelings or opinions on his character. Other than he's just there, but yes, that Alliance vs. Cerberus LM does sound infinitely better than the cliche and stereotypical father abandonment issue we had with him.

[Iakus]

osbornep wrote...

iakus wrote...

I would have made Morinth a more complex character than "Evil for the lulz"

Udina would have had an actual reason to going nuts and throwing in with Cerberus, rather than the lame "speculations" we're stuck with.

I actually think the idea of having at least one character who you can't redeem with your psychoanalytic powers is a good one; perhaps not everyone has that inner spark of decency just waiting to be rekindled by the awesome PC. It's just that the circumstances in which you recruit Morinth don't make much sense. There needed to be more plausible pragmatic reasons as to why you might take Morinth instead of Samara.

I'm not talking about redeeming or eve recruiting her.  I'm talking about exploring what made her different from Rila and Falere.  

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I would've made Tali more mature and less insecure off the bat. 

I would've made Liara about 100 years older, and pragmatic. You probably would have hated her.

I would've not done Jacob like Bioware did in ME3. <<< This.

I would've made Kaidan hardened after ME1.

I would have put an extranet terminal in the captain's quarters that opened the Codex so Shepard would avoid asking questions like "Asari can reproduce with other Asari?" 

I would have made Shepard less of a dumb ass. 

If you impressed The Illusive Man, Miranda wasn't so b****y toward you and actually carried on a conversation in ME2. Of course being put second in command might have something to do with that when she might have thought she should have been in command.

Sorry Mad Hanar... you were onto something.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Regarding Tali, her trial really was a sham. There was no way she was going to get exiled. Come on, so her father screwed up. Big f***in' deal. Tali? Stealth drive, Thanix weaponry, and stuff like that.... Don't let masked Quarians run around loose on your ship. Yes, the Migrant Fleet had Thanix weaponry by ME3. You know she'd worked her way down into the main gun room to see Garrus on more than one occasion. She'd probably also studied and scanned EDI's blue box and sent that along to the fleet. No one in reality would have exiled her anywhere. She was a spy.

[Jorji Costava]

iakus wrote...

I'm not talking about redeeming or eve recruiting her. I'm talking about exploring what made her different from Rila and Falere.

Fair enough. I don't have any ideas myself as to what Morinth's unique characteristics ought to have been; truth be told I recruit her so infrequently that I haven't thought about it much.

sHOtgUn jUliA wrote...

If you impressed The Illusive Man, Miranda wasn't so b****y toward you and actually carried on a conversation in ME2. Of course being put second in command might have something to do with that when she might have thought she should have been in command.

Actually, I thought it might be a good idea to go the opposite way. Miranda is pretty cold to Shepard right out of the gate, and then as soon as the Normandy SR-2 shows up, she seems to warm up to Shepard a bit abruptly. I think it might have been a good idea if Miranda's suspicions about Shepard persisted at least a little bit longer, particularly if Shepard acted in a mostly paragon way (perhaps she would have suspicions about whether or not Shepard has what it takes or whatnot).

Related to this, I suggested a long while back that it would have been interesting to make it impossible for Shepard to gain every crew member's loyalty simultaneously. Perhaps some characters would only be amenable to a more Renegade Shepard, while others wouldn't trust a mostly-Renegade Shepard or a Shepard that was too enthusiastic about the association with Cerberus. Perhaps you can't permanently resolve all the resentments between squadmates.

I would have made Shepard less of a dumb ass.

Gotta agree with this.

/night

[Iakus]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Had them wear proper clothing.

That's hardly unique to characters we don't like

[Iakus]

osbornep wrote...

iakus wrote...

I'm not talking about redeeming or eve recruiting her. I'm talking about exploring what made her different from Rila and Falere.

Fair enough. I don't have any ideas myself as to what Morinth's unique characteristics ought to have been; truth be told I recruit her so infrequently that I haven't thought about it much.

Perhaps if we saw these characteristics she would get recruited more;)

[Sir DeLoria]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Regarding Tali, her trial really was a sham. There was no way she was going to get exiled. Come on, so her father screwed up. Big f***in' deal. Tali? Stealth drive, Thanix weaponry, and stuff like that.... Don't let masked Quarians run around loose on your ship. Yes, the Migrant Fleet had Thanix weaponry by ME3. You know she'd worked her way down into the main gun room to see Garrus on more than one occasion. She'd probably also studied and scanned EDI's blue box and sent that along to the fleet. No one in reality would have exiled her anywhere. She was a spy.

What's the big deal? If she was even responsible for acquiring that technology, she would've stolen it from Cerberus, a human-centric terrorist organization. You could also blame Garrus for giving Cerb Thanix tech in the first place. In any situation I was glad the Quarians had Thanix weaponry and stealth drives, gave them a better chance at taking back their homeworld. If I had the chance, I would've given that information to the Flotilla myself.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Necanor wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Regarding Tali, her trial really was a sham. There was no way she was going to get exiled. Come on, so her father screwed up. Big f***in' deal. Tali? Stealth drive, Thanix weaponry, and stuff like that.... Don't let masked Quarians run around loose on your ship. Yes, the Migrant Fleet had Thanix weaponry by ME3. You know she'd worked her way down into the main gun room to see Garrus on more than one occasion. She'd probably also studied and scanned EDI's blue box and sent that along to the fleet. No one in reality would have exiled her anywhere. She was a spy.

What's the big deal? If she was even responsible for acquiring that technology, she would've stolen it from Cerberus, a human-centric terrorist organization. You could also blame Garrus for giving Cerb Thanix tech in the first place. In any situation I was glad the Quarians had Thanix weaponry and stealth drives, gave them a better chance at taking back their homeworld. If I had the chance, I would've given that information to the Flotilla myself.

I'm sorry. This is the wrong thread. This is about characters you DON'T like. I like Tali. She's the most heroic character in the story.

On Topic: There aren't any characters I really hate....

[RatThing]

There aren't any character I really hate except TIM, and I wouldn't change a thing about that. Hating the enemy makes victory so much sweeter. 
There are character though I find less interesting. Jacob, Thane, Miranda, Samara, EDI. Most of the times it's just that i have the feeling that I had seen this kind of character a thousand times before. Jacob -> Hip Hop style buddy from Hollywood action movies, Thane -> spiritual hitman from Hong Kong action movies, Chow Yun-Fat type,  Miranda -> Bond Girl, Samara -> Samurai movies (I would change the way she speaks though), EDI -> Assimov influenced stories about robots becoming alive + Pinocchio. I don't know what I can change about that, you'd have to rewrite the whole character. 
edit: Maybe I'd change Joker to let him be serious at times, or if he really have to deluge you with jokes, make some of them funny at least.
   

Modifié par RatThing, 12 novembre 2013 - 07:38 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

RatThing wrote...

There aren't any character I really hate except TIM, and I wouldn't change a thing about that. Hating the enemy makes victory so much sweeter. 
There are character though I find less interesting. Jacob, Thane, Miranda, Samara, EDI. Most of the times it's just that i have the feeling that I had seen this kind of character a thousand times before. Jacob -> Hip Hop style buddy from Hollywood action movies, Thane -> spiritual hitman from Hong Kong action movies, Chow Yun-Fat type,  Miranda -> Bond Girl, Samara -> Samurai movies (I would change the way she speaks though), EDI -> Assimov influenced stories about robots becoming alive + Pinocchio. I don't know what I can change about that, you'd have to rewrite the whole character. 
edit: Maybe I'd change Joker to let him be serious at times, or if he really have to deluge you with jokes, make some of them funny at least.
   

Actually, the EDI part, you have her required on a mission where you need someone with super tech expertise, and she's the one, and someone has to stay behind and get vaporized. EDI knows perfectly well she is the Normandy, and she can vacate the platform at the last second. EDI volunteers because it is logical. Pinocchio out. Blue globe in.

Joker has a nervous breakdown as a result and you get a new pilot. 

[David7204]

I wonder if anyone here would admit they don't like a character but they're nonetheless well written. That's probably expecting too much.

Miranda is not exactly my favorite character, but her subtle hypocrisy and dishonest is nonetheless very well done and accurate.

[Xilizhra]

I wonder if anyone here would admit they don't like a character but they're nonetheless well written. That's probably expecting too much.

Javik?

[David7204]

I would have gotten rid of Javik.

Her personality might have worked, but him being a Prothean didn't bring near enough to the table for the price. Nor would I want it to. This is Shepard's story. Not Javik's.

So if there was some way to integrate his experiences and perspective and reason for being on the ship into another species...maybe.

I know I'm not fond of Shepard's reponses towards him on the ship conversations. And I don't bring him anywhere else.

Modifié par David7204, 12 novembre 2013 - 08:05 .

[SwobyJ]

Miranda and Jacob would be more appropriately tied into their backstory in Galaxies (mobile game).

Jacob probably would have been a more rounded out character as a result.