138 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Whoops. Nevermind. I forgot about the literary meaning of 'rounded.' I was thinking 'mellow.'

Modifié par David7204, 12 novembre 2013 - 08:11 .

[SlottsMachine]

When you're in Texas look behind you, because that's where the Ranger gonna be.

[SwobyJ]

David7204 wrote...

I wonder if anyone here would admit they don't like a character but they're nonetheless well written. That's probably expecting too much.

Miranda is not exactly my favorite character, but her subtle hypocrisy and dishonest is nonetheless very well done and accurate.

I really like every henchmen with the possible exception of Jacob.

However, I have 'gameplay distaste' for several, after all 3 games are said and done. At the same time, I think they're largely well written, even if railroaded or ill-fitting at times.

-Tali ... but the tie into the Fleet and Rannoch in ME2-3 was very enjoyable, as was her (though mostly ceremonial) promotion to admiral.
-Jacob ... but his loyalty mission was one of the most enjoyable.
-Zaeed ... but by the end of ME3 I'd have felt like I lost out without him hanging around and saying his stuff
-James ... but I actually think they did very well on making a 'initially hate him but grow to value him' kind of character
-Jack ... who I honestly CHEER for at this point, while still disliking HER. It's a strange feeling.

Honestly.. yeah... Jacob is the only one I think sucks.

[SwobyJ]

David7204 wrote...

Jacob is a 'rounded out' character.

I felt we only got 1/2 of his character potential. "Ready.. for anything! *bro hug*" Me: "Okay...?" And then I go to Mordin who always has something interesting about himself to share.

[SwobyJ]

David7204 wrote...

Whoops. Nevermind. I forgot about the literary meaning of 'rounded.' I was thinking 'mellow.'

Oh. Ok.

[trenq]

New clothes for Miranda.
Jacob, cheating on Shepard? Heavy risk but the PRIZE
Patrick did say Tali wouldn't steal anything from the Normandy without having a conversation with Shepard about it.
( he said that on twitter )

Modifié par trenq, 12 novembre 2013 - 03:09 .

[Oni Changas]

Catalyst is replaced by Harbinger. "Catalyst" then only refers to the Citadel itself.

Liara is toned down in her worship of Shepard.

Kasumi actually does something useful and stops over-relying on her cloak. With her logic anyone can be the best thief in the galaxy if they were good with an omnitool and had a tactical cloak.

EDI. Ditch the body and the pinnochio story. Keep her as is in ME2, or don't sexualize her getting a body.

Legion, ditch the pinnochio story. Have the geth get subjugated by the reapers, not willingly submit. Legion rejects the reaper code but strives to push the geth to achieve such an upgrade on their own terms. Show other geth interacting with him to give insight.

Traynor. Tone down her role (give the option to recruit Kelly to the Alliance to keep her job as Yeoman on the Normandy). She should NOT be making the Shadow Broker look stupid and useless. Ditch the EDI obsession...

(ME3) Legion, ditch the pinnochio story. Have the geth get subjugated by the reapers, not willingly submit. Legion rejects the reaper code but strives to push the geth to achieve such an upgrade on their own terms. Show other geth interacting with him to give insight.

Udina isn't a friggin turncoat idiot. Keep him as the ally we love to hate.

The council is revamped to show they were merely keeping Shepard at a distance in ME2 but were really prepping for a potential reaper threat.

[LegioDamnatus]

I would have made Kai Leng much closer to his character from Retribution and given him a change of clothing. The most important changes would be:

- A haircut. The ponytail looked just stupid.
- Ditch the visor.
- A armor optimized for stealth - Possibly looking somewhat related to the Cerberus Assault Armor (the ME2 version, not the too shiny ME3 version).
- Stealth abilities similar to the geth hunters.
- Replace sword and palm blaster with a combat knife for silent takedowns and a pistol (perhaps an M-11 Suppressor?).
- Subtle hints of cybernetic enhancements.
- Relies of stealth abilities to get close to target (to keep you on edge in fights).

Then the personality:
- Calm in all situations (no more "Shut up!").
- No going into battle alone (a team of commandos gives suppressive fire while he cloaks and sneaks up on you).
- Ambushes your squad.
- Instead of "Cover me while I recharge", he uses a flashbang grenade and cloaks to get away from you. THEN he can recharge.

On topic of the other characters:

- Tali: Does not become an admiral. Keeping her as an expert for the geth is fine, but making her an admiral is overdoing it and felt overtly like pandering to the fans.
- Udina: Does not turn traitor. To me, it seemed like Bioware just put it in because many players hated him - which is not a good reason to kill someone off - especially when we started to see his human side instead of "politician through and through".
- Dalatrass Linron: As Ryzaki said later in the thread - Less obnoxious. Instead, she brings up valid points against curing the genophage (like "What happens after the war?"; "What if Wrex dies?") is diplomatic and pulls strings behind the scenes - you know, what you would expect a salarian leader to do.
- EDI: No sexualized robot body. Instead, she get's a remote-controlled YMIR. Now that would be something to see. 
- Shepard: Yes, not even he is safe. The first step would be to return control during dialogue to the player. Personally, I felt that Shep talked way too much without my input. Another thing would be neutral dialogue options - which I found sorely lacking, especially during the Rannoch arc.

Modifié par LegioDamnatus, 12 novembre 2013 - 05:42 .

[Linkenski]

David7204 wrote...

I would have gotten rid of Javik.

Her personality might have worked, but him being a Prothean didn't bring near enough to the table for the price. Nor would I want it to. This is Shepard's story. Not Javik's.

So if there was some way to integrate his experiences and perspective and reason for being on the ship into another species...maybe.

I know I'm not fond of Shepard's reponses towards him on the ship conversations. And I don't bring him anywhere else.

Speaking of Javik, am I the only one who felt like his existence was cheap (in-world, not DLC pricing)? It felt so contrived and cheap to have a living breathing prothean appear in Shepard's timeline after you'd concluded they were gone in all the other games.

I mean, the DLC justifies him being alive, but... dunno, I just thought it was too easy for the writers to say "let's a have a real living prothean party member, and a walking exposition-device".

Granted he is very well-written IMO, maybe not in characterization (god, so annoying) but his tales are interesting and bringing him to Thessia was awesome. But I think he kinda ruined the Prothean myths and stuff like that, or at least un-mystified them a great deal.

Back to topic: I would've changed Shepard into being not-dudebro. I hate how every Mac-written character likes to mess so much with grammar and slang. "That bad, huh?", "should've seen this coming!", "Wish we had done something", "Goddamn, damn, ****, damn, damn" (a lot of these lines refer to Anderson's awful characterization). Characters were like talking books in ME1, but I wish they'd made at least more characters less grunting and smart-assy in ME3.

[KaiserShep]

I actually quite liked that he totally dismantled the mysticism behind the protheans, and served to disillusion Liara's whole romanticized, benevolent vision of what they were like. If anything, the whole prothean veneration people had was begging to be upended somehow beyond simply finding out that they did not create the relays and Citadel.

If I were to change a character I really didn't like, I'd make the Dalatrass less obnoxious.

[General TSAR]

AI-A Rampant Mech instead of the sexbot.

Liara-Less monotone, less clingy, less moronic, and less hysterical while on the Bimbo homeworld.

Jacob-Give him Sten's personality and a proper battlesuit.

Cortez-Don't cry in front of your CO knucklehead.

Miranda-A proper uniform without the cam shots.

Traynor-Make her less obtuse, "I need a toothbrush!" while Earth is getting Glassed.

Shepard-Remove the railroading: "I Hate CERBERUS!" and "OH NOES!! THE BIMBO HOMEWORLD AND THE DATA!" 

Modifié par General TSAR, 12 novembre 2013 - 04:46 .

[Ryzaki]

Dalatrass - Less obnoxious more diplomatic and manipulative
Ashley - Have her think more often before opening that hole in her face.
Jack - Either have her more like her ME3 self in ME2 or have her more like her ME2 self in ME3 I just feel her personality shift happened way too fast.
Tali - I'd just get rid of her crush on Shep.
Liara - Have her be more professional and brisk with a renedouche. No going to Shep's room for information that could've easily been given over the comm. Less "MY PEOPLE" on Thessia.
Kai Leng - Everything. Just...everything.

[Trav-O]

OniTYME wrote...

Catalyst is replaced by Harbinger. "Catalyst" then only refers to the Citadel itself.

Liara is toned down in her worship of Shepard.

Kasumi actually does something useful and stops over-relying on her cloak. With her logic anyone can be the best thief in the galaxy if they were good with an omnitool and had a tactical cloak.

EDI. Ditch the body and the pinnochio story. Keep her as is in ME2, or don't sexualize her getting a body.

Legion, ditch the pinnochio story. Have the geth get subjugated by the reapers, not willingly submit. Legion rejects the reaper code but strives to push the geth to achieve such an upgrade on their own terms. Show other geth interacting with him to give insight.

Traynor. Tone down her role (give the option to recruit Kelly to the Alliance to keep her job as Yeoman on the Normandy). She should NOT be making the Shadow Broker look stupid and useless. Ditch the EDI obsession...

(ME3) Legion, ditch the pinnochio story. Have the geth get subjugated by the reapers, not willingly submit. Legion rejects the reaper code but strives to push the geth to achieve such an upgrade on their own terms. Show other geth interacting with him to give insight.

Udina isn't a friggin turncoat idiot. Keep him as the ally we love to hate.

The council is revamped to show they were merely keeping Shepard at a distance in ME2 but were really prepping for a potential reaper threat.

I love every idea you've got down here. Jacob's whole ME3 story being trite and out of character as others have said. I was OK with Miranda's obssession with outwitting her creepy dad, but ME3 should not have been rescue Miranda's sister all over again. And the Rachni... same thing. What good is a military ally that seems to do nothing for you? Woo, war asset points. Right.

Modifié par Trav-O, 12 novembre 2013 - 05:07 .

[trenq]

Trav-O wrote...

OniTYME wrote...

Catalyst is replaced by Harbinger. "Catalyst" then only refers to the Citadel itself.

Liara is toned down in her worship of Shepard.

EDI. Ditch the body and the pinnochio story. Keep her as is in ME2, or don't sexualize her getting a body.

Legion, ditch the pinnochio story. Have the geth get subjugated by the reapers, not willingly submit. Legion rejects the reaper code but strives to push the geth to achieve such an upgrade on their own terms. Show other geth interacting with him to give insight.

Traynor. Tone down her role (give the option to recruit Kelly to the Alliance to keep her job as Yeoman on the Normandy). She should NOT be making the Shadow Broker look stupid and useless. Ditch the EDI obsession...

(ME3) Legion, ditch the pinnochio story. Have the geth get subjugated by the reapers, not willingly submit. Legion rejects the reaper code but strives to push the geth to achieve such an upgrade on their own terms. Show other geth interacting with him to give insight.

Udina isn't a friggin turncoat idiot. Keep him as the ally we love to hate.

The council is revamped to show they were merely keeping Shepard at a distance in ME2 but were really prepping for a potential reaper threat.

I love every idea you've got down here. Jacob's whole ME3 story being trite and out of character as others have said. I was OK with Miranda's obssession with outwitting her creepy dad, but ME3 should not have been rescue Miranda's sister all over again. And the Rachni... same thing. What good is a military ally that seems to do nothing for you? Woo, war asset points. Right.

this

Modifié par trenq, 12 novembre 2013 - 05:11 .

[Everyone Is Someone]

osbornep wrote...

Jacob: First thing would be to lose the daddy issues altogether. The Ronald Taylor subplot just didn't do it for me at all, since we'd already seen daddy issues about 20 or 30 times by that point. Instead, his loyalty mission should have some kind of relevance to whatever incidents led to him abandoning the Alliance and joining Cerberus in the first place. We need to get a sense of what concrete events led to his frustrations with Alliance red tape, so that we could understand his motivations.

Jacob's central conflict seems to revolve around his doubts about the decision to join Cerberus; the loyalty mission should be about dealing with those doubts. Presumably, it would conclude with either Jacob reaffirming his commitment to Cerberus, or with him realizing he needs to get the hell out of there after the current mission is concluded.

I really love this idea, OP. Jacob's daddy issues kind of came out of nowhere to me; his resentment towards the Alliance seemed to be his defining characteristic in the beginning. If he needs an older figure to confront, instead of a father, why not an old commander from the Alliance, or from his time with the Corsairs? I'd have preferred his loyalty mission to end with him questioning what he thought his tenure with the Alliance was. He thought he was powerless, but maybe the loyalty mission could teach him how much of a difference he really made.

It also would've made a nice character progression arc, from being earnestly loyal to Cerberus at the beginning of ME2, to questioning it after the loyalty mission, to contradicting the Illusive Man's desire to save the base in the finale, to actively helping people desert Cerberus in ME3. (Yes, admittedly, they didn't know what the plot was of ME3 when writing ME2, but still!)

I guess the problem is it contradicts the pattern of ME2 loyalty mission mechanic: each squadmate has to go from "Oh, I'm so distracted" to "I went on a mission with Shep and now everything's better!" Introducing more doubts doesn't exactly make a character seem more focused in the face of a suicide mission. Still, I think there's definitely a lesson learned for Bioware - don't just throw random character biographical bits together; make them something more. (Which is not to say everything has to come to ahead at once - you didn't need Mordin's loyalty mission to be confronting Maelon at a Gilbert and Sullivan opera at his nephew's university, for example.)

[Karlone123]

EDI: Keep her strictly as the ship's AI, I didn't like the idea of EDI trying to understand and mimic organic behaviour was weird.

Jacob: Talking to Jacob was like talking to a brick wall, there was almost little point or enjoyment in having him around. He had some interesting things to say after Freedom's Progress, displaying his frustration of the Alliance and the Council on being too restrictive on taking action. It made his reason of joining Cerberus understandable.

James Vega: Give him a better introduction instead of "This is James, get used to him" in the opening. It also felt as if he went the same route as Jacob did, make him seem interesting at the start but eventually his interest falls flat afterwards. To me he was just some guy on the ship. I would have made James a recent graduate of the N7 program, bearing facial similarities with the Freddy Prince Jr, and having a similar reserved attitude like Kaidan had.

Kai Leng: Seemed more interesting in the comics before his ME3 appearence. so I would have tried to keep him that interesting.

[KaiserShep]

EDI's attempts to understand and mimic organic behavior was part of her character since her introduction in ME2, since we see her testing Jeff's responses and their dynamic changes throughout the story. Keep in mind that trying to undestand organics is one of the key things we learn about the geth as well when we talk to Legion. Having no curiosity about organic behavior would undermine the fact that these are sentient entities.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 12 novembre 2013 - 06:08 .

[Arcian]

David7204 wrote...

I would have gotten rid of Javik.

Her personality might have worked, but him being a Prothean didn't bring near enough to the table for the price. Nor would I want it to. This is Shepard's story. Not Javik's.

So if there was some way to integrate his experiences and perspective and reason for being on the ship into another species...maybe.

I know I'm not fond of Shepard's reponses towards him on the ship conversations. And I don't bring him anywhere else.

"Waaah, waah, I can't stand being second-guessed by a member of my crew!"

Linkenski wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I would have gotten rid of Javik. 

Her personality might have worked, but him being a Prothean didn't bring near enough to the table for the price. Nor would I want it to. This is Shepard's story. Not Javik's.

So if there was some way to integrate his experiences and perspective and reason for being on the ship into another species...maybe. 

I know I'm not fond of Shepard's reponses towards him on the ship conversations. And I don't bring him anywhere else. 

Speaking of Javik, am I the only one who felt like his existence was cheap (in-world, not DLC pricing)? It felt so contrived and cheap to have a living breathing prothean appear in Shepard's timeline after you'd concluded they were gone in all the other games.

Don't use the word "concluded" unless you're basing your argument on some hard evidence that there definitively and absolutely were no protheans alive in ME1 and ME2. Until there is definitive proof, all you have to work with is chance and likelihood.

Linkenski wrote...

I mean, the DLC justifies him being alive, but... dunno, I just thought it was too easy for the writers to say "let's a have a real living prothean party member, and a walking exposition-device".


Granted he is very well-written IMO, maybe not in characterization (god, so annoying) but his tales are interesting and bringing him to Thessia was awesome. But I think he kinda ruined the Prothean myths and stuff like that, or at least un-mystified them a great deal.

In other words, your headcanon was shattered and this really grinds your gears.

Modifié par Arcian, 12 novembre 2013 - 06:27 .

[KaiserShep]

If Javik was a different species, then he would have been pointless altogether. His personality traits and his views on other species relies on the fact that he's completely out of his time and comes from the broken remains of a very different galactic society. There's no other species in the MEU that would serve as a good fit for Javik.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 12 novembre 2013 - 06:15 .

[Mathias]

There wasn't a single character I disliked.

Wait...no, that's not true. The Catalyst. Get rid of him.

[Xilizhra]

KaiserShep wrote...

If Javik was a different species, then he would have been pointless altogether. His personality traits and his views on other species relies on the fact that he's completely out of his time and comes from the broken remains of a very different galactic society. There's no other species in the MEU that would serve as a good fit for Javik.

There's also the fact, David, that this isn't Javik's story. Of all the squadmates, it's about him least of all. He's an evolutionary dead end from a cycle that failed to defeat the Reapers. He can see it end, but neither he nor anyone like him was responsible for bringing that end to fruition.

[KaiserShep]

And besides, he probably adds the most to the Thessia mission, and probably has the best London dialogue of all the squad members (which itself relies on the fact that he's a prothean).

Modifié par KaiserShep, 12 novembre 2013 - 06:21 .

[ATiBotka]

I don't mind Miranda's clothes, as long as she wears it on the ship, not in space.

[Xilizhra]

KaiserShep wrote...

And besides, he probably adds the most to the Thessia mission, and probably has the best London dialogue of all the squad members (which itself relies on the fact that he's a prothean).

Well, he doesn't add anything good to the Thessia mission, but yes, he adds things. I've never brought him to London, though.

[KaiserShep]

I disagree that he doesn't add anything good on Thessia (better than the entire squad imo), but as for London, I'm talking about the conversation you have with him at the base of operations, not during the beam run.