32 réponses à ce sujet

[Linkenski]

 I think one part of ME3 that was just constantly unbelievable, at least for me, was the whole speculation on what the Crucible would be. At the beginning of the game they keep saying it's a super-weapon but they don't really know what it might do, but then later in the game guys like Hackett starts assuming it'll just beat the reapers.

I just think it was kind of disconnected that the game shifted back and forth between having the characters believe the Crucible was this said Anti-Reaper device to characters thinking it could as well be a dangerous experiment.

But since it's shown in the ending that the way it works is where it fires the beam across all Mass Relays in the galaxy I think it would've been much better if they'd revealed earlier in the game that during the construction of the Crucible they would find out that it worked by connecting with Mass Relays in some sort of way.

A contradiction there was with the Crucible was that according to the blueprints they should've been able to figure out early that it should connect to the Citadel, but I believe you could've worked around that plot-hole in a couple of ways.

But IMO it would've been more believable for them to assume it was a Reaper-killer if they only knew that its function was to somehow work in a chain reaction with the mass relays thus touching all the Reapers as they are all in the milky way galaxy.

Do you agree or is this just silly BS?

[AlexMBrennan]

A contradiction there was with the Crucible was that according to the blueprints they should've been able to figure out early that it should connect to the Citadel, but I believe you could've worked around that plot-hole in a couple of ways.

Well, that seems the most likely scenario - they found weapon blueprints but they need to modify the device in some to kill Reapers galaxy-wide since, well, they are everywhere, and hooking it up to the ME relay network (which is controlled by the Citadel) seems like a reasonable leap.

[NeonFlux117]

It would have been nice to have a coherent narrative. Not using a deus ex machina and maccguffin narrative device (the crucible) to explain the already goofy narrative and gainax ending of ME3.

Don't think about it too hard. The crucible is what it is.

High level stuff and art. You understanding is not required here. Only your wallet.

[grey_wind]

I still think the basic idea of the Crucible- a weapon that connects to the Citadel and uses its relay spanning capabilities to disperse the energy of the mass relays galaxy wide- was something basic enough that the current cycle could have come up with it themselves, especially after studying the data-banks and Conduit on Ilos and the remains/data from the Collector Base.
Control could have worked by having TIM modify the Crucible's basic design so it did what he desired.

There was really no need for it to be some incomprehensible, magical gift dropped down from the heavens above in our darkest hour. The Crucible being the accomplishment of this cycle would have been very thematically resonant.

Of course, this would preclude the existence of Synthesis, but with the way it's handled in-game, nothing of value would be lost.

[wolfhowwl]

Not seeing this kind of stupidity would have been nice.

[NeroonWilliams]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

It would have been nice to have a coherent narrative. Not using a deus ex machina and maccguffin narrative device (the crucible) to explain the already goofy narrative and gainax ending of ME3.

Don't think about it too hard. The crucible is what it is.

High level stuff and art. You understanding is not required here. Only your wallet.

The nature of the Reaper threat was ALWAYS going to necessitate a deus ex machina in order to defeat them.

Either that, or a central processing "leader" that would work as one.  We all know how THAT was received.

[Sebby]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Not seeing this kind of stupidity would have been nice.

I'd rather have Link, Adol Christin or Ratchet&Clank in charge of saving the galaxy than this clueless imbecile.

[Vargeisa]

Linkenski wrote...

But since it's shown in the ending that the way it works is where it fires the beam across all Mass Relays in the galaxy I think it would've been much better if they'd revealed earlier in the game that during the construction of the Crucible they would find out that it worked by connecting with Mass Relays in some sort of way.

The way I understand it is that the Citadel is the part that connects the crucible to the mass relays.
The crucible was pretty much only the power source. Without the catalyst it wouldn't have anything to do with the mass relays.

[Rusty Sandusky]

Seboist wrote...

I'd rather have Link, Adol Christin or Ratchet&Clank in charge of saving the galaxy than this clueless imbecile.

What they need is this guy

[txgoldrush]

Linkenski wrote...

 I think one part of ME3 that was just constantly unbelievable, at least for me, was the whole speculation on what the Crucible would be. At the beginning of the game they keep saying it's a super-weapon but they don't really know what it might do, but then later in the game guys like Hackett starts assuming it'll just beat the reapers.

I just think it was kind of disconnected that the game shifted back and forth between having the characters believe the Crucible was this said Anti-Reaper device to characters thinking it could as well be a dangerous experiment.

But since it's shown in the ending that the way it works is where it fires the beam across all Mass Relays in the galaxy I think it would've been much better if they'd revealed earlier in the game that during the construction of the Crucible they would find out that it worked by connecting with Mass Relays in some sort of way.

A contradiction there was with the Crucible was that according to the blueprints they should've been able to figure out early that it should connect to the Citadel, but I believe you could've worked around that plot-hole in a couple of ways.

But IMO it would've been more believable for them to assume it was a Reaper-killer if they only knew that its function was to somehow work in a chain reaction with the mass relays thus touching all the Reapers as they are all in the milky way galaxy.

Do you agree or is this just silly BS?

If you paid attention the story you would find out that they did foreshadow what the Crucible is.

After the coup< Hackett not only foreshadows that the Crucible was an energy generator, but he foreshadowed that the Catalyst is what would give it aim. He also foreshadowed the fact that its not really Prothean.

And there is no plot hole here, the fact that it connects to the crucible simply isn't in the blueprint. Why? Because the Protheans wanted to make sure the next cycle was ready before they reveal the final part, so the plans do not fall to the Reapers.

Its all in the narrative.

[txgoldrush]

NeroonWilliams wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

It would have been nice to have a coherent narrative. Not using a deus ex machina and maccguffin narrative device (the crucible) to explain the already goofy narrative and gainax ending of ME3.

Don't think about it too hard. The crucible is what it is.

High level stuff and art. You understanding is not required here. Only your wallet.

The nature of the Reaper threat was ALWAYS going to necessitate a deus ex machina in order to defeat them.

Either that, or a central processing "leader" that would work as one.  We all know how THAT was received.

There is no  true deus ex machina in ME3...it was not only foreshadowed, it was averted.

People here simply do not know what a deus ex machina really is.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

txgoldrush wrote...

NeroonWilliams wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

It would have been nice to have a coherent narrative. Not using a deus ex machina and maccguffin narrative device (the crucible) to explain the already goofy narrative and gainax ending of ME3.

Don't think about it too hard. The crucible is what it is.

High level stuff and art. You understanding is not required here. Only your wallet.

The nature of the Reaper threat was ALWAYS going to necessitate a deus ex machina in order to defeat them.

Either that, or a central processing "leader" that would work as one.  We all know how THAT was received.

There is no  true deus ex machina in ME3...it was not only foreshadowed, it was averted.

People here simply do not know what a deus ex machina really is.

From Wikipedia: 

"The video game series Deus Ex plays heavily on the theme of deus ex machina. Here, the protagonists of the games - controlled by the player - are said to be the element of deus ex machina by way of using the powers conferred by their mechanical/nanotechnological augmentations so as to affect the balance of power in a conflict from the outside in such a way as to be akin to a god."

The Original Ending to Mass Effect 3 was virtually identical.

[txgoldrush]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

NeroonWilliams wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

It would have been nice to have a coherent narrative. Not using a deus ex machina and maccguffin narrative device (the crucible) to explain the already goofy narrative and gainax ending of ME3.

Don't think about it too hard. The crucible is what it is.

High level stuff and art. You understanding is not required here. Only your wallet.

The nature of the Reaper threat was ALWAYS going to necessitate a deus ex machina in order to defeat them.

Either that, or a central processing "leader" that would work as one.  We all know how THAT was received.

There is no  true deus ex machina in ME3...it was not only foreshadowed, it was averted.

People here simply do not know what a deus ex machina really is.

From Wikipedia: 

"The video game series Deus Ex plays heavily on the theme of deus ex machina. Here, the protagonists of the games - controlled by the player - are said to be the element of deus ex machina by way of using the powers conferred by their mechanical/nanotechnological augmentations so as to affect the balance of power in a conflict from the outside in such a way as to be akin to a god."

The Original Ending to Mass Effect 3 was virtually identical.

No it wasn't....very different themes and happenings.

[Ryzaki]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Not seeing this kind of stupidity would have been nice.

To be fair Shep's cycle as a whole is pretty damn stupid. It's not like he's unique.

[txgoldrush]

Ryzaki wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Not seeing this kind of stupidity would have been nice.

To be fair Shep's cycle as a whole is pretty damn stupid. It's not like he's unique.

But Shepards cycle won....out of thousands that failed.

It seems logical to maybe trust a MacGuffin from a source that has been helpful before, even if they do not know what it really does...

[Yougotcarved1]

txgoldrush wrote...
There is no  true deus ex machina in ME3...it was not only foreshadowed, it was averted.

People here simply do not know what a deus ex machina really is.

Where was the existence of the crucible foreshadowed? And how was DEM averted?

[McFlurry598]

The best use of quote on quote forshadowing, is Me1.

[txgoldrush]

Yougotcarved1 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
There is no  true deus ex machina in ME3...it was not only foreshadowed, it was averted.

People here simply do not know what a deus ex machina really is.

Where was the existence of the crucible foreshadowed? And how was DEM averted?

Lair of the Shadow Broker - Liara states that the Broker had Prothean data that they have not used.

DEM is averted from one line

"The Crucible changed me, created new possibilities, but I can't make them happen", and it was in the narrative all along that the Crucible and the Catalyst could stop the Reapers, so there is no DEM.

Vigil in ME1 is DEM, not the Catalyst.

[nos_astra]

Generic vague line in an optional DLC detected...

Applying hindsight knowledge...

Requirements for DEM not met...

[Star fury]

If you want real foreshadowing like in the Wheel of Time series, biower should've done it in ME1. We got plain ol' deus ex machina.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

txgoldrush wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

NeroonWilliams wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

It would have been nice to have a coherent narrative. Not using a deus ex machina and maccguffin narrative device (the crucible) to explain the already goofy narrative and gainax ending of ME3.

Don't think about it too hard. The crucible is what it is.

High level stuff and art. You understanding is not required here. Only your wallet.

The nature of the Reaper threat was ALWAYS going to necessitate a deus ex machina in order to defeat them.

Either that, or a central processing "leader" that would work as one.  We all know how THAT was received.

There is no  true deus ex machina in ME3...it was not only foreshadowed, it was averted.

People here simply do not know what a deus ex machina really is.

From Wikipedia: 

"The video game series Deus Ex plays heavily on the theme of deus ex machina. Here, the protagonists of the games - controlled by the player - are said to be the element of deus ex machina by way of using the powers conferred by their mechanical/nanotechnological augmentations so as to affect the balance of power in a conflict from the outside in such a way as to be akin to a god."

The Original Ending to Mass Effect 3 was virtually identical.

No it wasn't....very different themes and happenings.

I'm sorry I was thinking of Invisible War. But anyway did we play the same game? 

You had one faction, the Illuminati that wanted to control and one faction Cerberus that wanted to Control
You had one faction, the templars that wanted to destroy, and one faction the Allies that wanted to destroy (and it destroyed tech and not just your reaper tech but tech that your civilization relied on)
You had Helios. And you had synthesis.

The latter ones accomplished by Shepard in a place completely outside the rest of the story in the last 5 minutes. There was no way to defeat the reapers conventionally. This was the only way to defeat the reapers. Shepard needed to interact with a higher power (Starbrat) to gain insight into this, and make the decision for the course of the galaxy's future. That is a deus ex machina.

[NeonFlux117]

txgoldrush, can you not read and comprehend??? Seriously, Deus ex machina is exactly what the endings of ME3 are. Especially the control ending.

[KaiserShep]

Don't forget the mysterious elevator panel that just happens to be under Shepard. Are all the floor panels like that? If Shepard passed out anywhere else, would he/she still be able to be lifted to the decision chamber? We don't know. What we do know is that if not for that thing, the Crucible would simply have been destroyed by the reapers since no one was there to activate it.

[NeonFlux117]

Magik bro. The rule of cool and magik. It is what it is.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Did someone say Deus Effect 3?