91 réponses à ce sujet

[viper_veteran]

This link explains it pretty well


www.youtube.com/watch

Edit: I added the wrong part.

Go to 8:20

Modifié par viper_veteran, 13 novembre 2013 - 08:19 .

[Sailears]

To waste our time.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

mybudgee wrote...

Update: 80% of people (kids) already play mostly TGI + Harrier

Apparently, they're dressing up those Ghosts in Juggernaut suits.

[Bryan Johnson]

Alright, I am coming in to this one as more of a generalized person and not directly explaining decisions made. I was not the one making the decisions, but can understand them.

A lot of points were already made in this thread, and others so wont go into great detail.

There is also a social aspect of it, that is a strong with randomization. Even though this is a co-op game there is a gentle competitive nature to it. I know during development I was the first in my group of friends to get a Revenant and was able to play it in such a way those around me wanted to get one and try it out. During that process another got a widow, and even though at the time all they wanted was the Revenant that I was using they fell for the Widow. So in their quest to get the gun they thought they wanted, they found something randomly that they ended up liking more. Whereas a straight progression system (buy what you want), would have lead to people using the same as me, but without the same joy that they found with their own thing.

We are by no means unique in the approach we took, as many have said we are the same as collector cards. With trading cards though, I know that you can trade those, whereas you cant trade stuff in our game, But these an explanation of this in that the majority of value that collector cards come are in the ability to sell them in the future. They also have the advantage of being at a controlled rate of rarity whereas our game rarity approachs 1 over long period of time. Anyways back to my point of trading, in our game a weapons value is that what you get at that time, and is repeatable thus why trading is not the same in that analogy.

Anyways ill stop here, for now.

[Beerfish]

It's certainly true about the social aspect of the randomness. We had some huge threads about 'what did you get in your victory pack'.

[InstaShark]

BroJo brought up a point that led to a related point grabbing my attention: If we were allowed to trade mod/weapon/character cards, there could be potential abuse for "resale" and the like, which adversely affects both the developers, publishers, and, most importantly (sorry Biolulz), the players.

The whole multiplayer aspect of ME3 would've probably gone in a downward spiral, crashing into the nothingness that is pay-to-win, although there isn't really a serious competitive aspect to co-op (I would think, anyway). Even if it's not an economic/legal issue, it's still affecting gameplay as a whole. ME3MP would've been a much less enjoyable experience, and we may not have the community that we have right now.

Modifié par InstaShark, 13 novembre 2013 - 09:49 .

[Moby]

BJ I have to ask, are you very busy these days? You're sure being active here again.

[Rotward]

Gambling is highly addictive. Look at wow. It's nothing but gambling and competitive sports.

[Bryan Johnson]

MofuggerX wrote...

BJ I have to ask, are you very busy these days? You're sure being active here again.

I have time between builds, before I would spend them doing other things, now I am spending them here. Although I got a second computer, so my downtime should be reduced again.

[ndw542]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

MofuggerX wrote...

BJ I have to ask, are you very busy these days? You're sure being active here again.

I have time between builds, before I would spend them doing other things, now I am spending them here. Although I got a second computer, so my downtime should be reduced again.

Whatever the reason, it's good to see you back.  Even post-support, the Biotag's still a reliable indicator that a thread will be more interesting than most of the others. 

[Strict31]

InstaShark wrote...

BroJo brought up a point that led to a related point grabbing my attention: If we were allowed to trade mod/weapon/character cards, there could be potential abuse for "resale" and the like, which adversely affects both the developers, publishers, and, most importantly (sorry Biolulz), the players.

The whole multiplayer aspect of ME3 would've probably gone in a downward spiral, crashing into the nothingness that is pay-to-win, although there isn't really a serious competitive aspect to co-op (I would think, anyway). Even if it's not an economic/legal issue, it's still affecting gameplay as a whole. ME3MP would've been a much less enjoyable experience, and we may not have the community that we have right now.

I don't know that I agree. It seems quite vague. Maybe you could go into more detain on what BroJo meant? Or post a link to the thread?

All I know is that I've got a ton of weapons I would have never used before the Challenge system came into play. And even then, I have to force myself to use these weapons. I wouldn't mind trading some stuff out for things I do use.

For the longest time, I had a Saber stuck at level one. But I had dat Eagle at level three or four or something like that. I got two upgrades to the Eagle in consecutive weeks as weekend rewards last year. But my Saber was stuck on level one. I would have punched someone's grandmother in the box  to swap out that Eagle 4 for even one additional level of Saber.

There are a bunch of sniper rifles I never use and probably won't ever use, CP be damned. I don't even use them in single-player. Wouldn't mind the ability to unload that stuff for a CSMG. Or the PPR.

If there could be a system of equivelency exchange, like you could only exchange a gold for a gold, or maybe a gold for two blues and a silver...I dunno.

It just feels like this system has the promise of a reward without reliably making good on the reward. Maybe there's no perfect system, but I can tell you I have no problem paying Bioware for the stuff I want. This is a system that has been working fairly well since God invented money.

[mybudgee]

[/quote]

Whatever the reason, it's good to see you back.  Even post-support, the Biotag's still a reliable indicator that a thread will be more interesting than most of the others. 

[/quote]

+1

[Bryan Johnson]

What InstaShark was referencing was the post 2 above his, My comment was directed more at player trading instead of into a system.

Even if it was a trade system into a system it could be easily gamed. Lets take your example of 2 blues for a silver, and then lets say it was 2 silver for a gold. Currently lets say the value of a blue is 5k (recruit pack) whereas the value of a gold is 60k (spectre pack). We have now established 4 blues = gold, which allows us to cause the value of our gold to decline to be worth only 20k which renders all other packs moot.

Now if we said alright lets do it at a 10:1 blue:Gold to somewhat maintain value. Well when a player goes to make the jump from bronze to gold, the can have a level 6 gold weapon instantly by trading in all their blues. They now have a weapon that is significantly more powerful than the effort they have put in to date, and as a result they have also choked their entire variety. Which means that they have established a crutch situation for themselves and made it so that their team has to adapt to their play because they have no other options.

[megabeast37215]

How about just letting others freely give and trade as they wish? I would love to give a new play a bunch of my level 1-3 amps, piercing mods, etc... Things that can really help them along while they build their manifest. I can see what you're saying about creating a crutch... That makes sense. If I were to give someone my level X Collector SMG, it would be all they'd use for a very, very long time.

Modifié par megabeast37215, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:37 .

[Bryan Johnson]

megabeast37215 wrote...

How about just letting others freely give and trade as they wish? I would love to give a new play a bunch of my level 1-3 amps, piercing mods, etc... Things that can really help them along while they build their manifest. I can see what you're saying about creating a crutch... That makes sense. If I were to give someone my level X Collector SMG, it would be all they'd use for a very, very long time.

Honestly, it takes a TON of fun out of it

[Evil]

Bryan, as a slight tangent, how about giving a player the option of turning any one-use items they don't have any need for into omni-gel, like back in ME1, in the next ME?MP game?

The omni-gel is then used as PARTIAL payments for unlockables, like using a gift voucher, with the effective value of the omni-gel being significantly less than the credit value of the consumable used to make the omni-gel.

It would give players who never use a specific form of consumable at least some value from the original purchase.

Or better yet, do away with the idea of being dependant on random number generator for mission critical equipment completely.

I'm absolutely fine with not getting that one kit or gun that I want, but if I can't get melee amps or shotgun amps, that acts as a bar to playing on the higher difficulties with my prefered kits.

It's not nearly as bad as it used to be, now that jumbo equipment packs are permanently available(thanks for that BTW), but before that, getting enough gear to play gold was a real problem, illustrating why some things shouldn't be left completely to chance.

I know how some of the guys feel about being able to unlock that one thing they want, I've been trolled by the store for the Blood Pack Punisher for months, but that's life, I can deal with it.

Modifié par Evil Mastered, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:44 .

[Bryan Johnson]

@Evil Mastered no idea what is going on with next mass effect, I am on Dragon Age

[Sailears]

Evil Mastered wrote...

Bryan, as a slight tangent, how about giving a player the option of turning any one-use items they don't have any need for into omni-gel, like back in ME1, in the next ME?MP game?

The omni-gel is then used as PARTIAL payments for unlockables, like using a gift voucher, with the effective value of the omni-gel being significantly less than the credit value of the consumable used to make the omni-gel.

It would give players who never use a specific form of consumable at least some value from the original purchase.

Or better yet, do away with the idea of being dependant on random number generator for mission critical equipment completely.

I'm absolutely fine with not getting that one kit or gun that I want, but if I can't get melee amps or shotgun amps, that acts as a bar to playing on the higher difficulties with my prefered kits.

It's not nearly as bad as it used to be, now that jumbo equipment packs are permanently available(thanks for that BTW), but before that, getting enough gear to play gold was a real problem, illustrating why some things shouldn't be left completely to chance.

I know how some of the guys feel about being able to unlock that one thing they want, I've been trolled by the store for the Blood Pack Punisher for months, but that's life, I can deal with it.

Fantastic idea, and it brings in omnigel in a very neat way. Certainly great for consumables.

[Moby]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

I have time between builds, before I would spend them doing other things, now I am spending them here. Although I got a second computer, so my downtime should be reduced again.

See I get curious and ask people dumb questions like that all the time.

Anyways, in my opinion it's pretty sweet that you're posting again.  I'm just waiting for another jest that you can take away someone's Harrier again.

[Bryan Johnson]

MofuggerX wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

I have time between builds, before I would spend them doing other things, now I am spending them here. Although I got a second computer, so my downtime should be reduced again.

See I get curious and ask people dumb questions like that all the time.

Anyways, in my opinion it's pretty sweet that you're posting again.  I'm just waiting for another jest that you can take away someone's Harrier again.

I think the next step is to perma lock someones GI

[Evil]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

@Evil Mastered no idea what is going on with next mass effect, I am on Dragon Age

Ah, of course you are, you mentioned that earlier,  I forgot.  Sorry.

Still, could I be cheeky and ask you to pass the idea of not making mission critical equipment totally dependent on RNG to the relevant people?

It's a small thing, but it might well improve the gameplay of ME?MP, as anyone who's played a gold or platinum game with three pugs who havn't got a single med-gel between them will attest.

Modifié par Evil Mastered, 14 novembre 2013 - 12:00 .

[Moby]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

I think the next step is to perma lock someones GI

Well hey, if you want to try an experiment... I'm down.  

[saxybeast418]

If any of you haven't already, check this out:

http://www.penny-arc...le-games-part-1

Extra Credits is an awesome show that tackles all sorts of video game related topics.

This is a recent episode (the second part of this just aired today) that goes into the potential (and dangers) of the booster pack model. While it seems to mainly focus on free-to-play portable titles, it applies perfectly to ME3 multiplayer's upgrade system.

Mass Effect 3's system wasn't perfect by any means - the rarer item pools got really bloated after all of the expansions came out. But all in all, it really added some much needed longevity to the game, seeing as how they focused it to one mode.

Slowly and unpredictably unlocking new weapons and kits encourages the exploration and experimentation needed to keep this game from getting stale, and the urge to max out the manifest keeps many engaged in the experience with the need to collect all of the things.

[Titus Thongger]

I actually don't mind the RNG. it gave me a chance to use guns I never would have otherwise used if not for the natural progression. I mean, I only really started using uber guns like the javelin, talon, scorpion, because I so happened to have them at a decent level.

A mixture of both elements would be nice, natural progression and RNG. at the start it was frustrating but towards the end I used pretty much all of the URS so the RNG didn't really annoy me.