1238 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Does no one else have an opinion on my proposal?

[dragonflight288]

Let me read back and look at it again. I'm currently debating Emperor (and writing a term paper in between posts) about my idea for a test that may replace the Harrowing.

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I have to disagree with you somewhat. Any time a mage is in the Fade, sleeping or otherwise, they are vulnerable. Just because we have no seen it, does not make it any less true.

But is there evidence or examples of this of mages who are not somniari? We may not see it in the games, but in the novels and codex entries, are there examples? That's what I'm asking for.

Emperer's assertion was that my idea wouldn't work because mages don't have the luxury of time. I say that if a mage can be trained from childhood to adulthood before taking the Harrowing, why would this not also be true for the test I thought up.

"Orana was brought to the Circle of Magi in Kirkwall at the age of five. Her mentors had high hopes for the child, seeing
her talent for magic. Unfortunately, the poor child was plagued bynightmares that only worsened after her move to the Gallows. Orana became afraid of falling asleep. She would lie stiffly in bed, her eyes wide open. Without sleep, she grew thin and wan, and her studies began to suffer. Orana began to experience waking dreams. Shadows flitted in corners, and she swore she heard voices calling her name. She knew demons could take advantage of her vulnerable state, and at the tender age of eleven, she requested to be made Tranquil. The first enchanter complied"
-Codex Entry: Tranquility

Edit: Lord Raijin showed me this Codex entry the other day.

Modifié par eluvianix, 13 novembre 2013 - 09:06 .

[Xilizhra]

HiroVoid wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
I see the Veil tears as our biggest priority at the moment. The War in Orlais is also a big concern for me, but that might change based on how the Masked Empire shakes out. The Mage and Templar War is a long term, background conflict I hope to solve while I work on the other two problems.

Well, another big part of DA:I that will probably just happen as the plot goes on is establishing the DA:I to be an organization with the influence and power similar to the templars and grey wardens if I had to guess at its end game power.  I'm guessing part of the game will be partially deciding policies on how the Inquisiton handles policies.  I don't think it'll have the political clout some hope for such as 'We are the inquisition and we go to war on this country for this*.  Most likely in future games, it's main purpose will probably be hunting down demons and possibly trying to uncover abominations trying to masquerade as regular people.  Templars will probably get a more narrow focus on policing mages or as the conflict goes on, tracking them down.  Still unsure of what becomes of the templars that didn't go rogue yet if that's the case.

You think the Inquisition will last beyond this game? I suppose that might be the case... I'd always thought of it being temporary, somehow.

[Sir JK]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

It's a two way street. The mages would have to rely on kingly handouts which means it would be hard for them to take over nations at wills but the king would have the interest of keeping these villages well supplied in case they fight a war with a kingdom that took better care of its mages.
Also, they wouldn't have to rely entirely on the king. If, say, a noble wishes for protection during a travel, they would come to the village and pay for it. These transactions would be entirely independent from the king.

If they can't maintain themselves as independently as other bannorns, your entire system is a lie and no improvement on the current one.

I far prefer my Chantry integration plan.

I'm inclined to agree with you here Xil. Turning the mages into the equalient of janissaries/mercenaries comes with heaps of problems. Not least of which would be to encourage them to start blackmailing themselve sout of the dependancy with the king (and let's not even begin to touch what would happen if the crown goes bankrupt).

Integration, while also having some issues, is a much more stable approach and less prone to abuse. Keeping mages as far away from war as possible is also always a good idea. Mages and war are two things that do not mix well I've found.

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

I have to disagree with you somewhat. Any time a mage is in the Fade, sleeping or otherwise, they are vulnerable. Just because we have no seen it, does not make it any less true.

But is there evidence or examples of this of mages who are not somniari? We may not see it in the games, but in the novels and codex entries, are there examples? That's what I'm asking for.

Emperer's assertion was that my idea wouldn't work because mages don't have the luxury of time. I say that if a mage can be trained from childhood to adulthood before taking the Harrowing, why would this not also be true for the test I thought up.

"Orana was brought to the Circle of Magi in Kirkwall
at the age of five. Her mentors had high hopes for the child, seeing
her talent for magic. Unfortunately, the poor child was plagued by
nightmares that only worsened after her move to the Gallows.
Orana became afraid of falling asleep. She would lie stiffly in
bed, her eyes wide open. Without sleep, she grew thin and wan, and her
studies began to suffer.
Orana began to experience waking dreams. Shadows flitted in corners, and she swore she heard voices calling her name. She knew demons could take advantage of her vulnerable state, and at the tender age of eleven, she requested to be made Tranquil. The first enchanter complied"
-Codex Entry: Tranquility

Ah. Well, that works. Thanks for that.

But that doesn't change my main point, however...if a mage can be trained from childhood to adulthood before taking the Harrowing, why wouldn't that same time-frame be used for the test I suggested?

Still, that's a very good point that, now that you've pointed it out, I know I've read it before but either mentally blocked it off subconsciously or forgot about it.

[HiroVoid]

Xilizhra wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
I see the Veil tears as our biggest priority at the moment. The War in Orlais is also a big concern for me, but that might change based on how the Masked Empire shakes out. The Mage and Templar War is a long term, background conflict I hope to solve while I work on the other two problems.

Well, another big part of DA:I that will probably just happen as the plot goes on is establishing the DA:I to be an organization with the influence and power similar to the templars and grey wardens if I had to guess at its end game power.  I'm guessing part of the game will be partially deciding policies on how the Inquisiton handles policies.  I don't think it'll have the political clout some hope for such as 'We are the inquisition and we go to war on this country for this*.  Most likely in future games, it's main purpose will probably be hunting down demons and possibly trying to uncover abominations trying to masquerade as regular people.  Templars will probably get a more narrow focus on policing mages or as the conflict goes on, tracking them down.  Still unsure of what becomes of the templars that didn't go rogue yet if that's the case.

You think the Inquisition will last beyond this game? I suppose that might be the case... I'd always thought of it being temporary, somehow.

If it gets enough power or influence, I would think it'd stick around.  Most organizaitons don't get that much power only to disband.  Once the giant veil tear is closed, it'll need a new purpose.  Obviously, the new purpose has to be one similar to the problem that was solved since that was what all the people in the organization fought for which is why I suggested it'll probably move on to hunting down demons and trying to uncover abominations.

[Xilizhra]

HiroVoid wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
I see the Veil tears as our biggest priority at the moment. The War in Orlais is also a big concern for me, but that might change based on how the Masked Empire shakes out. The Mage and Templar War is a long term, background conflict I hope to solve while I work on the other two problems.

Well, another big part of DA:I that will probably just happen as the plot goes on is establishing the DA:I to be an organization with the influence and power similar to the templars and grey wardens if I had to guess at its end game power.  I'm guessing part of the game will be partially deciding policies on how the Inquisiton handles policies.  I don't think it'll have the political clout some hope for such as 'We are the inquisition and we go to war on this country for this*.  Most likely in future games, it's main purpose will probably be hunting down demons and possibly trying to uncover abominations trying to masquerade as regular people.  Templars will probably get a more narrow focus on policing mages or as the conflict goes on, tracking them down.  Still unsure of what becomes of the templars that didn't go rogue yet if that's the case.

You think the Inquisition will last beyond this game? I suppose that might be the case... I'd always thought of it being temporary, somehow.

If it gets enough power or influence, I would think it'd stick around.  Most organizaitons don't get that much power only to disband.  Once the giant veil tear is closed, it'll need a new purpose.  Obviously, the new purpose has to be one similar to the problem that was solved since that was what all the people in the organization fought for which is why I suggested it'll probably move on to hunting down demons and trying to uncover abominations.

Maybe it'll be the new body to handle mages, replacing the Chantry altogether.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
I see the Veil tears as our biggest priority at the moment. The War in Orlais is also a big concern for me, but that might change based on how the Masked Empire shakes out. The Mage and Templar War is a long term, background conflict I hope to solve while I work on the other two problems.

Well, another big part of DA:I that will probably just happen as the plot goes on is establishing the DA:I to be an organization with the influence and power similar to the templars and grey wardens if I had to guess at its end game power.  I'm guessing part of the game will be partially deciding policies on how the Inquisiton handles policies.  I don't think it'll have the political clout some hope for such as 'We are the inquisition and we go to war on this country for this*.  Most likely in future games, it's main purpose will probably be hunting down demons and possibly trying to uncover abominations trying to masquerade as regular people.  Templars will probably get a more narrow focus on policing mages or as the conflict goes on, tracking them down.  Still unsure of what becomes of the templars that didn't go rogue yet if that's the case.

You think the Inquisition will last beyond this game? I suppose that might be the case... I'd always thought of it being temporary, somehow.

If it gets enough power or influence, I would think it'd stick around.  Most organizaitons don't get that much power only to disband.  Once the giant veil tear is closed, it'll need a new purpose.  Obviously, the new purpose has to be one similar to the problem that was solved since that was what all the people in the organization fought for which is why I suggested it'll probably move on to hunting down demons and trying to uncover abominations.

Maybe it'll be the new body to handle mages, replacing the Chantry altogether.

I would be down with that. Especially with a mage Inquisitor at the helm.

[Inprea]

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Right, like obliterating any semblance of economy so they have to rely on kingly handouts? Your disingenuousness is showing quite hard.

It's a two way street. The mages would have to rely on kingly handouts which means it would be hard for them to take over nations at wills but the king would have the interest of keeping these villages well supplied in case they fight a war with a kingdom that took better care of its mages.
Also, they wouldn't have to rely entirely on the king. If, say, a noble wishes for protection during a travel, they would come to the village and pay for it. These transactions would be entirely independent from the king.
They would be serving a role in society without turning non-mages into second class citizens.

As an isolationist I could tolerate this with a few ground rules. You want restrictions on what mages can produce. I couldn't agree to complete restrictions. The mages would have to be allowed to produce goods and grow food for their own use. If there is a famine on and I have enough land plus the ability to create water, ice shards, I am not going to starve to death or allow my children to starve because the king can't send me enough food.  I'm also not going into battle with substandard equipment when superior level equipment can be made right next door.

Also any child born to a mage would have to be allowed to live with their parent, even if the child isn't a mage, until they reach adulthood at which point the child may choose to leave and while the parent may not send the child goods the parent should be allowed to support their child financially. So a mage could send their none mage child off with enough money to buy a farm.

That said I see a serious risk with this system. Such a living situation would encourage mages to develop more and more destructive forms of magic for the sake of war. In a war you want the best edge you can have after all. Now I may be mistaken but the power of mages can differ a great deal even more so then the combat ability of individual mundanes. The notion that magic runs strong in a family line. Uldred I believe even mentioned the PC was abnormally powerful for a mage. I believe you would eventually end up producing a mage that could be called the incarnation of death itself and they may not be content killing when they're told to.

Then again. In any sci-fi story where you lock people away and treat them as living weapons you eventually end up producing a monster you can't contain. If we applied those same sci-fi rules to dragon age's fantasy setting it's a wonder half the templar order hasn't been killed of by a freakishly powerful rogue mage at some point. Well unless the mage rebellion itself is the monster.

I'm not sure if everyone would agree but in most media treating people like living weapons = bad. Eventually you end up with a monster that only the hero can bring down.

Modifié par Inprea, 13 novembre 2013 - 09:12 .

[MisterJB]

Sir JK wrote...
Not least of which would be to encourage them to start blackmailing themselve sout of the dependancy with the king

How do you propose they would do so? 
 

(and let's not even begin to touch what would happen if the crown goes bankrupt).

Definitively a problem, I admit. Altough, in those circunstances, it would be in the best interests of mages to assist the country since other nations would have their own mages who would not see with good eyes foreign mages interfering with their businesses.
Of course, this would lead to mages earning a greater amount of freedom within that country which might result in other nations providing assistance just to reestablish the status quo. It wouldn't do to have their own mages overstepping their boundaries.

Mages and war are two things that do not mix well I've found.

So long as they are only fighting each other...

[Sir JK]

MisterJB wrote...

How do you propose they would do so?

The simplest way? Conning noblemen.

But I would not bat an eyelash if they actually knew how to cast curses on proxy.

Or just start playing nobleman against one another and reaping the benefit.
 

Definitively a problem, I admit. Altough, in those circunstances, it would be in the best interests of mages to assist the country since other nations would have their own mages who would not see with good eyes foreign mages interfering with their businesses.
Of course, this would lead to mages earning a greater amount of freedom within that country which might result in other nations providing assistance just to reestablish the status quo. It wouldn't do to have their own mages overstepping their boundaries.

It never occured to you that a bank would "buy" the mages from the king? That's what I feared.

So long as they are only fighting each other...

Do you remember what happens to the veil if lots of people die over a short span of time in the same location?

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

I recognize the Harrowing is a test. A test that not every mage goes through because if they're conisdered weak, they are forcibly made tranquil. And if you fail, you become an abomination and get killed.

What I suggested is also a test, one that can potentially be lethal if you are unprepared, but also one that you can take when you feel ready for it, so there are no forcible tranquilizations for being weak, and if you fail, there is just as much a chance to survive and recover as there is to die, and if you do survive you can retake the test and it will not be the same. It forces you to be prepared for almost any eventuality as you are facing your own potential.

Your weaknesses are what Pride, Desire and Sloth demons will prey upon. Your emotional attachments, your sense of worth and what it revolves around, your desires, and they will offer those things as a way to tempt you. If you face an aspect of your own potential, and forced to face those things a demon will prey upon, then there is no need to face the demon in the first place, you are your own demon, both literally and metaphorically.

I suppose this test mainly subscribes to the philosophy of "You must know yourself before you know the world," or something similar, and I'm mostly advocating a less lethal but just as effective measure that allows mages to show their ability and what they've learned while also learning something of themselves in the process, and let them also see what they can accomplish if they're willing to work hard for it.

And for those who are only catching on to this, you can go to pages one and two to see my idea being discussed when I originally suggested it, and where my inspiration came from.

You cannot wait around in Thedas and just take your test whenever you feel like it. Demons are not gonna wait for when you are ready. That is why your idea won't work. The test must be forced upon the mage, so that he can prove that he is not a liability. And if you take your test and force it upon the mage, then it is no different than the Harrowing, except that it offers no actual experience with demons.

If you cannot wait around, then what on earth are apprentices doing every single night before their Harrowing?  Going to Fade to dream is true for every mage and non-mage who is not a dwarf. Only somniari have been shown to be at any real risk during this time. It's never mentioned, ever, that there are apprentices in the Circle tower who become abominations at random in their sleep.

If you can point out in the lore or codex entries a single example of a mage who was not a somniari who was truly in danger of getting possessed this way, that would be proof that my idea won't work.

Sure, a mage will be in danger if they wander around Thedas and they come across a demon sundered from the Fade, just as much as any non-mage, or if they use lyrium to enter the Fade conscious and aware, then they are in very real danger, but beyond that and outside of somniari's I cannot think of a single mage who became an abomination by the act of waiting to finish their training and sleeping.

I understand the lore says mages are in more danger of possession than others, and so I support a Circle system of some kind alongside mandatory training with guardians trained to fight abominations like the Templars. But I also think the danger of mages becoming an abomination are not as severe a threat as the Chantry and templars believe, while at the same time a greater threat than many mages will profess.

So I offer a serious challenge, not just to you but to anyone. If you think my system (page one) will truly not work because you think mages are ticking time bombs, ready to blow up into an abomination, or because you think mages are truly in danger of getting possessed simply by the act of sleeping, then I offer this challenge---Locate for me some evidence that a mage who is not a somniari and is getting training is truly in as much danger as has been suggested that it's perfectly fine to train mages to take a Harrowing, but replacing the Harrowing with another test would be too long and too great a risk.

Wynne quite specifically says that whenever a mage opens themselves to the Fade, they endanger themselves to possessions. That means whenver they cast a spell or goes to sleep.
We also hae World of Thedas that specifically says that mages are differnet from mundanes when they sleep, because when they sleep mages are aware in the Fade, and they attract demons.
Basically it is pretty well established that mages are in danger of possession whenver they sleep or cast a spell.

[MisterJB]

Inprea wrote...
As an isolationist I could tolerate this with a few ground rules. You want restrictions on what mages can produce. I couldn't agree to complete restrictions. The mages would have to be allowed to produce goods and grow food for their own use. If there is a famine on and I have enough land plus the ability to create water, ice shards, I am not going to starve to death or allow my children to starve because the king can't send me enough food.  I'm also not going into battle with substandard equipment when superior level equipment can be made right next door.

I don't agree. Allowing the mages to become self-sustainable would undermine the possiblity of the king keeping them in line should some First Enchanter wish to take over the nation.
It would be better if, in case of a famine, the village rellocate their efforts towards earning more private contracts and then use the money earned by these to import the needed goods.

Also any child born to a mage would have to be allowed to live with their parent, even if the child isn't a mage, until they reach adulthood at which point the child may choose to leave and while the parent may not send the child goods the parent should be allowed to support their child financially. So a mage could send their none mage child off with enough money to buy a farm.

Hey, if you want your kid to live in a village whose sole purpose is military and where; given his lack of magical abilities; he will be unable to serve a role in that society, that is your problem, not mine.

That said I see a serious risk with this system. Such a living situation would encourage mages to develop more and more destructive forms of magic for the sake of war. In a war you want the best edge you can have after all. Now I may be mistaken but the power of mages can differ a great deal even more so then the combat ability of individual mundanes. The notion that magic runs strong in a family line. Uldred I believe even mentioned the PC was abnormally powerful for a mage.

 True but they already do that. At least, this way, they would serve an equally important role in society.

I believe you would eventually end up producing a mage that could be called the incarnation of death itself and they may not be content killing when they're told to.

Even the most powerful mage in the world can't stand up to an army.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

I recognize the Harrowing is a test. A test that not every mage goes through because if they're conisdered weak, they are forcibly made tranquil. And if you fail, you become an abomination and get killed.

What I suggested is also a test, one that can potentially be lethal if you are unprepared, but also one that you can take when you feel ready for it, so there are no forcible tranquilizations for being weak, and if you fail, there is just as much a chance to survive and recover as there is to die, and if you do survive you can retake the test and it will not be the same. It forces you to be prepared for almost any eventuality as you are facing your own potential.

Your weaknesses are what Pride, Desire and Sloth demons will prey upon. Your emotional attachments, your sense of worth and what it revolves around, your desires, and they will offer those things as a way to tempt you. If you face an aspect of your own potential, and forced to face those things a demon will prey upon, then there is no need to face the demon in the first place, you are your own demon, both literally and metaphorically.

I suppose this test mainly subscribes to the philosophy of "You must know yourself before you know the world," or something similar, and I'm mostly advocating a less lethal but just as effective measure that allows mages to show their ability and what they've learned while also learning something of themselves in the process, and let them also see what they can accomplish if they're willing to work hard for it.

And for those who are only catching on to this, you can go to pages one and two to see my idea being discussed when I originally suggested it, and where my inspiration came from.

You cannot wait around in Thedas and just take your test whenever you feel like it. Demons are not gonna wait for when you are ready. That is why your idea won't work. The test must be forced upon the mage, so that he can prove that he is not a liability. And if you take your test and force it upon the mage, then it is no different than the Harrowing, except that it offers no actual experience with demons.

If you cannot wait around, then what on earth are apprentices doing every single night before their Harrowing?  Going to Fade to dream is true for every mage and non-mage who is not a dwarf. Only somniari have been shown to be at any real risk during this time. It's never mentioned, ever, that there are apprentices in the Circle tower who become abominations at random in their sleep.

If you can point out in the lore or codex entries a single example of a mage who was not a somniari who was truly in danger of getting possessed this way, that would be proof that my idea won't work.

Sure, a mage will be in danger if they wander around Thedas and they come across a demon sundered from the Fade, just as much as any non-mage, or if they use lyrium to enter the Fade conscious and aware, then they are in very real danger, but beyond that and outside of somniari's I cannot think of a single mage who became an abomination by the act of waiting to finish their training and sleeping.

I understand the lore says mages are in more danger of possession than others, and so I support a Circle system of some kind alongside mandatory training with guardians trained to fight abominations like the Templars. But I also think the danger of mages becoming an abomination are not as severe a threat as the Chantry and templars believe, while at the same time a greater threat than many mages will profess.

So I offer a serious challenge, not just to you but to anyone. If you think my system (page one) will truly not work because you think mages are ticking time bombs, ready to blow up into an abomination, or because you think mages are truly in danger of getting possessed simply by the act of sleeping, then I offer this challenge---Locate for me some evidence that a mage who is not a somniari and is getting training is truly in as much danger as has been suggested that it's perfectly fine to train mages to take a Harrowing, but replacing the Harrowing with another test would be too long and too great a risk.

Wynne quite specifically says that whenever a mage opens themselves to the Fade, they endanger themselves to possessions. That means whenver they cast a spell or goes to sleep.
We also hae World of Thedas that specifically says that mages are differnet from mundanes when they sleep, because when they sleep mages are aware in the Fade, and they attract demons.
Basically it is pretty well established that mages are in danger of possession whenver they sleep or cast a spell.

We have already proven the claim wrong. I provided a codex entry to discount it already.

[MisterJB]

Sir JK wrote...
The simplest way? Conning noblemen.

But I would not bat an eyelash if they actually knew how to cast curses on proxy.

Or just start playing nobleman against one another and reaping the benefit.

 Which would lead to the noblemen seeking the services of different villages. If a particular one can't provide a satisfactory service, they can simply go to the competition.
Of course, this could lead to noblemen efectivelly strengthening an enemy nation which would lead to the king coming down on his mages until they fulfill their duties.

It never occured to you that a bank would "buy" the mages from the king? That's what I feared.

Good point but I find it doubtful a king would be willing to part away with his right over the mages. It is a danger but it also applies to other services. Merchants with private armies is nothing new in Thedas; especially in Antiva.

Do you remember what happens to the veil if lots of people die over a short span of time in the same location?

In that case, it would be better to have standing armies of only mages since their numbers are smaller.
And ultimately, mages fighting each other or non-mages fighting each other should yeld the same results as far as the Veil is concerned.

[Inprea]

MisterJB wrote...
I don't agree. Allowing the mages to become self-sustainable would undermine the possiblity of the king keeping them in line should some First Enchanter wish to take over the nation.
It would be better if, in case of a famine, the village rellocate their efforts towards earning more private contracts and then use the money earned by these to import the needed goods.

Then your system wouldn't work for me. What you're suggesting wouldn't leave them on equal footing to mundanes it would leave them as subservient. The connection to mundanes and a mundane king is too much for my isolationist view.

MisterJB wrote...
Hey, if you want your kid to live in a village whose sole purpose is military and where; given his lack of magical abilities; he will be unable to serve a role in that society, that is your problem, not mine.

That's going back to my first requirement actually. If the mages aren't allowed to produce goods for their own use then it's a deal breaker. Your idea seems rather on the complex side so I doubt it'll be making it into the game but if it did I wouldn't be going that path. Not sure how all the different paths will be settled after DA:I.

MisterJB wrote...
 True but they already do that. At least, this way, they would serve an equally important role in society.

Where does it indicate mages are allowed to set around and develop more and more effective ways to kill people? Given that blood magic is restricted, one of the best magics for killing people storyline wise, and Morgan mentions the chantry restricts other forms of magic from study it seems to me they aren't.  I know they developed the force techniques in Dragon Age 2 but most of those abilities are support abilities.

MisterJB wrote...
Even the most powerful mage in the world can't stand up to an army.

Perhaps but an army can only move so effectively. Just think of the keeper based techniques we see in awakening in which a mage can learn to move through root systems. Cornering someone with such techniques could be very difficult and having an army chasing one person is very costly. Plus I'm not so certain about that. Imagine virulent living bomb for example and the damage that spell could do to an army. Now imagine if it had been refined for mass destruction. Well that or a nice undead plague. In Dragon age Origins we can learn to create undead and living bomb allows us to create a mystic virus that spreads rapidly. That could be a fun experiment.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

Even the most powerful mage in the world can't stand up to an army.

*cough* Flemeth.

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Even the most powerful mage in the world can't stand up to an army.

*cough* Flemeth.

What? I solo'ed her with a single warrior.
Plus, crossbows and trebuchets would bring her down in minutes. Remember that it was a clan of non-mages, the Pentaghasts, that brought the dragons to near extinction.

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

We have already proven the claim wrong. I provided a codex entry to discount it already.

Which claim?

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Even the most powerful mage in the world can't stand up to an army.

*cough* Flemeth.

What? I solo'ed her with a single warrior.
Plus, crossbows and trebuchets would bring her down in minutes. Remember that it was a clan of non-mages, the Pentaghasts, that brought the dragons to near extinction.

. I spent most of that fight with my mage either on fire or drinking lyrium potions like they were going out of style. I had thought she would just be an abomination, not a freaking high dragon. And of course, I did not think to wear my dragonbone armor either. 
Do remember that Flemeth is also a mage as well as some special dragon thing. We have no clue what she is capable of. I would not discount her as of yet.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

We have already proven the claim wrong. I provided a codex entry to discount it already.

Which claim?

The mages and the possibility of being possessed while sleeping.

Edit: It was my first post on this page of the thread.

Modifié par eluvianix, 13 novembre 2013 - 09:55 .

[Estelindis]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

there will be blood mages amongst the rebellion. Blood mages that we will, most likely, have the opportunity to kill

But not the requirement to do so, I suspect. Unlike, it seems, the Red Templars. May no templar remain outside them or the Chantry.

...You actively wish for all templars to be red templars?  Have I understood that correctly?

[Xilizhra]

Estelindis wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

there will be blood mages amongst the rebellion. Blood mages that we will, most likely, have the opportunity to kill

But not the requirement to do so, I suspect. Unlike, it seems, the Red Templars. May no templar remain outside them or the Chantry.

...You actively wish for all templars to be red templars?  Have I understood that correctly?

Aside from Chantry loyalists, yes.

[Estelindis]

Xilizhra wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

...You actively wish for all templars to be red templars?  Have I understood that correctly?

Aside from Chantry loyalists, yes.

Why?