1238 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

There are some strategic flaws and variables that I may have failed to factor in when engaging blood mages. However, I am curious if there are others who can see and list them.

Of course, if your assessment is something I don't agree with, I will try and explain why I do not agree, and to what degree I disagree.

[Heimdall]

I suppose the main disadvantage of fighting as Blood Mage is that you have a fairly limited window before the bloodletting turns your advantage into a handicap.

[Inprea]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

There are some strategic flaws and variables that I may have failed to factor in when engaging blood mages. However, I am curious if there are others who can see and list them.

Of course, if your assessment is something I don't agree with, I will try and explain why I do not agree, and to what degree I disagree.

It depends partly on the setting. I believe someone mentioned once the issue with templars charging mages head on. That can be applied to the other group as well. Unless a mage is in a position of strength, a strong hold of some sort, what are the odds that they're going to be walking around with an I'm a mage sign on.  I believe the true horror of blood magic in war isn't about direct application. Rather it rest in the abiilty to force someone to betray your secrets or to create sleeper agents.

Now I'm not certain on the fine details of DA mind control but I know in the world of darkness my little ventrue loves to mind rape the friends of her enemies with commands along the lines of. At seven PM on Wednesday you'll do everything within your power to kill Bob. Assuming Bob is the person she wants dead.

They are also techniques, such as those from awakening, which are very pro-combat. Stoic and draining being two very big ones. When draining is active anyone standing near a mage has their health drained to restore the mage while at the same time stoic restores the mages mana everytime they take damage to allow them to keep fighting.

There there is the lovely virelent living bomb for destroying clusters of enemies. I wonder if you could use blood magic to mind control someone, cast living bomb on them, send them into their allies campt, let's say where they're eating, then have them suicide.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I suppose the main disadvantage of fighting as Blood Mage is that you have a fairly limited window before the bloodletting turns your advantage into a handicap.

Depends on whose blood you are using to empower your spells.

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Blood magic being immune to negation or neutralization mskes it too dangerous to trust. It's giving massive amounts of power with no effective way to combat or keep the practitioners in check.

Again, Templars can withstand it (Evangeline), but it is just a lot harder to do.

Yes or nor can templars neutralize blood magic using their powers?

Yes, they can, it is just a lot harder to neutralize and negate than normal mana based magic.

Has anyone here was ever curious about the training method used by the templars? Do they force Circle mages ( or do mages volunteer themselves to be used as guinea pigs) to spar with them thus gaining experience to deal with troublemaking mages? Do they secretly force mages to turn to blood magic to spar with them to gain an additional experience to neutralize blood magic? I always wonder about how they practice their power given to them by the lyrium that they take.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Blood magic being immune to negation or neutralization mskes it too dangerous to trust. It's giving massive amounts of power with no effective way to combat or keep the practitioners in check.

Again, Templars can withstand it (Evangeline), but it is just a lot harder to do.

Yes or nor can templars neutralize blood magic using their powers?

Yes, they can, it is just a lot harder to neutralize and negate than normal mana based magic.

Has anyone here was ever curious about the training method used by the templars? Do they force Circle mages ( or do mages volunteer themselves to be used as guinea pigs) to spar with them thus gaining experience to deal with troublemaking mages? Do they secretly force mages to turn to blood magic to spar with them to gain an additional experience to neutralize blood magic? I always wonder about how they practice their power given to them by the lyrium that they take.

I honestly doubt it is the latter. I think they probably have a select group of mages who spar with the templars or help them to practice their powers.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Blood magic being immune to negation or neutralization mskes it too dangerous to trust. It's giving massive amounts of power with no effective way to combat or keep the practitioners in check.

Again, Templars can withstand it (Evangeline), but it is just a lot harder to do.

Yes or nor can templars neutralize blood magic using their powers?

Yes, they can, it is just a lot harder to neutralize and negate than normal mana based magic.

Has anyone here was ever curious about the training method used by the templars? Do they force Circle mages ( or do mages volunteer themselves to be used as guinea pigs) to spar with them thus gaining experience to deal with troublemaking mages? Do they secretly force mages to turn to blood magic to spar with them to gain an additional experience to neutralize blood magic? I always wonder about how they practice their power given to them by the lyrium that they take.

In the mage origin we see mages training in defensive spells with eachother in the library. If they can do thst, they can train templars to neutralize magic in the same manner. Not everything has to be about forcing this to do that. And blood magic?  Why would they ever force anyone to do thst when keeping blood magic from bei g used is a nearly universal goal? 

Don't be so one-noted.

[Cainhurst Crow]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

I suppose the main disadvantage of fighting as Blood Mage is that you have a fairly limited window before the bloodletting turns your advantage into a handicap.

Depends on whose blood you are using to empower your spells.

Yup. They can kill others to fuel their spell. Makes it difficult to balance the range and melee forces to use against them.

[HiroVoid]

The training method for the monstrous templars is to use the poor mages as guineau pigs and go through the shame of having to cast some form of dastardly spells the templars force them to use aimed at templar recruits where they are afterwards forcibly beaten to further reinforce their place in life.

....or mages like the loyalists or any other faction that's willing to work together like Irving and Gregaior simply set up sessions where the mages help templars spar similar to how they train mages train future mages.

[Hellion Rex]

My question is this: if templars can cleanse an area of ambient magic, could they learn to focus that ability in such a way as to create a magic null zone, a place where the Fade cannot be touched?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Maybe of there were enough of them all focusing together. But it would probably be impossible to pull off alone.

[Hellion Rex]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Maybe of there were enough of them all focusing together. But it would probably be impossible to pull off alone.

Definitely. It would require the strongest of the Templar Order, as well as probably boatloads of lyrium. But what if they could pull it off on a building, to seal off the inside from the Fade? What if they could do it on a scale the size of a Circle?

[dragonflight288]

Lord Aesir wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

But the Chantry suppresses, if not outright bans anatomical studies because it's associated with blood magic.  

I've seen this claim several times, but it occurs to me that I can't think of a source for it.  Might you provide?

I bring it up because medieval and Rennaissance anatomical studies had difficulties largely because acquiring corpses was difficult to do legitimately and usually required grave robbing, still today considered immoral and illegal, more than church suppression.  Though at the height of the Black Death the Pope actually encouraged dissection of the dead in the hopes that the disease might be understood and cured.

I provided a source earlier in this thread, but I'll provide it again since it's been awhile.

Here is the wiki page that specifically says it. And here is the in-game item description that is part of the lore that makes it clear that the Chantry bans anatomical studies, or at least suppresses it with severe consequences.

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Maybe of there were enough of them all focusing together. But it would probably be impossible to pull off alone.

Definitely. It would require the strongest of the Templar Order, as well as probably boatloads of lyrium. But what if they could pull it off on a building, to seal off the inside from the Fade? What if they could do it on a scale the size of a Circle?

That would quite likely be extremely expensive. But if it's doable then great!

Such an endeavor, however, would take years, and based on the price of lyrium when you smuggle it to Godwin in origins, may be enough to bankrupt a country.

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Maybe of there were enough of them all focusing together. But it would probably be impossible to pull off alone.

Definitely. It would require the strongest of the Templar Order, as well as probably boatloads of lyrium. But what if they could pull it off on a building, to seal off the inside from the Fade? What if they could do it on a scale the size of a Circle?

That would quite likely be extremely expensive. But if it's doable then great!

Such an endeavor, however, would take years, and based on the price of lyrium when you smuggle it to Godwin in origins, may be enough to bankrupt a country.

True, at the very least we would have to wrest control of the lyrium trade as Inquisitor, and then involve the Mining Caste in our endeavor.
Although...if we were to seal away a circle with such methods... crap. Doing that would in turn prevent mages from practicing magic in a Circle at all. They tap the Fade to use magic.

On the other hand, perhaps they don't even need to seal off a circle. What if they could seal away the innate magical potential in a living being permanently...it could be a solution to the Tranquility question.

Modifié par eluvianix, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:46 .

[Bardox9]

eluvianix wrote...

My question is this: if templars can cleanse an area of ambient magic, could they learn to focus that ability in such a way as to create a magic null zone, a place where the Fade cannot be touched?

Can't say for sure, but I think they could. As shown in the DA:O Mage origin, they can cancel out all magic in a small area with the use of special wards and runes. If they put enough of them together, they should be able to seal off large area. Not sure how that would effect the Fade exactly, but in theory it is possible.

[Hellion Rex]

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

My question is this: if templars can cleanse an area of ambient magic, could they learn to focus that ability in such a way as to create a magic null zone, a place where the Fade cannot be touched?

Can't say for sure, but I think they could. As shown in the DA:O Mage origin, they can cancel out all magic in a small area with the use of special wards and runes. If they put enough of them together, they should be able to seal off large area. Not sure how that would effect the Fade exactly, but in theory it is possible.

Then take that theory, and apply it a person. If enough templars could use maybe a combination of Silence and Cleanse, could it be possible to permanently disrupt/sever/blind a mage to the Fade, without instilling Tranquility?

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Maybe of there were enough of them all focusing together. But it would probably be impossible to pull off alone.

Definitely. It would require the strongest of the Templar Order, as well as probably boatloads of lyrium. But what if they could pull it off on a building, to seal off the inside from the Fade? What if they could do it on a scale the size of a Circle?

That would quite likely be extremely expensive. But if it's doable then great!

Such an endeavor, however, would take years, and based on the price of lyrium when you smuggle it to Godwin in origins, may be enough to bankrupt a country.

True, at the very least we would have to wrest control of the lyrium trade as Inquisitor, and then involve the Mining Caste in our endeavor.
Although...if we were to seal away a circle with such methods... crap. Doing that would in turn prevent mages from practicing magic in a Circle at all. They tap the Fade to use magic.

On the other hand, perhaps they don't even need to seal off a circle. What if they could seal away the innate magical potential in a living being permanently...it could be a solution to the Tranquility question.

We'd have the new Aeonar! A place to put mage criminals who have absolutely no access to the powers that made them dangerous in the first place. It would probably have to be an international prison because the price of such a facility would be astronomical....and you'd also have to look out for the pesky side effects of lyrium addling to the prison wardens and mages in question.

But yeah, if this could be done, we'd have an alternative to tranquility.

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...

I honestly doubt it is the latter. I
think they probably have a select group of mages who spar with the
templars or help them to practice their powers.

Merged with

Darth Brotarian wrote...
In the mage origin we see mages training in defensive spells with eachother in the library. If they can do thst, they can train templars to neutralize magic in the same manner. Not everything has to be about forcing this to do that. And blood magic?  Why would they ever force anyone to do thst when keeping blood magic from bei g used is a nearly universal goal? 

Don't be so one-noted.

Why would the mages willingly help the templars to dispell their mana?

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

I honestly doubt it is the latter. I
think they probably have a select group of mages who spar with the
templars or help them to practice their powers.

Merged with

Darth Brotarian wrote...
In the mage origin we see mages training in defensive spells with eachother in the library. If they can do thst, they can train templars to neutralize magic in the same manner. Not everything has to be about forcing this to do that. And blood magic?  Why would they ever force anyone to do thst when keeping blood magic from bei g used is a nearly universal goal? 

Don't be so one-noted.

Why would the mages willingly help the templars to dispell their mana?

Loyalists to score points with the Chantry, or some mages are just required to help Templars learn.

[Bardox9]

eluvianix wrote...

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

My question is this: if templars can cleanse an area of ambient magic, could they learn to focus that ability in such a way as to create a magic null zone, a place where the Fade cannot be touched?

Can't say for sure, but I think they could. As shown in the DA:O Mage origin, they can cancel out all magic in a small area with the use of special wards and runes. If they put enough of them together, they should be able to seal off large area. Not sure how that would effect the Fade exactly, but in theory it is possible.

Then take that theory, and apply it a person. If enough templars could use maybe a combination of Silence and Cleanse, could it be possible to permanently disrupt/sever/blind a mage to the Fade, without instilling Tranquility?

A pendant with a rune that caused a constant silence/cleanse field around a mage would keep them from casting spells, but now sure if it would keep them out of the fade or not. Would be an interesting experiment to run. A glyph to scribe under a mages bed would be very handy.

[Hellion Rex]

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

My question is this: if templars can cleanse an area of ambient magic, could they learn to focus that ability in such a way as to create a magic null zone, a place where the Fade cannot be touched?

Can't say for sure, but I think they could. As shown in the DA:O Mage origin, they can cancel out all magic in a small area with the use of special wards and runes. If they put enough of them together, they should be able to seal off large area. Not sure how that would effect the Fade exactly, but in theory it is possible.

Then take that theory, and apply it a person. If enough templars could use maybe a combination of Silence and Cleanse, could it be possible to permanently disrupt/sever/blind a mage to the Fade, without instilling Tranquility?

A pendant with a rune that caused a constant silence/cleanse field around a mage would keep them from casting spells, but now sure if it would keep them out of the fade or not. Would be an interesting experiment to run. A glyph to scribe under a mages bed would be very handy.

That is a smart idea. Maybe, a set of magic binding handcuffs on maleficar or apostates that are not immediately killed?

Heck, why not set up a major glyph under the ground of a major building to negate all magic within?

Modifié par eluvianix, 19 novembre 2013 - 05:40 .

[Bardox9]

eluvianix wrote...

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

My question is this: if templars can cleanse an area of ambient magic, could they learn to focus that ability in such a way as to create a magic null zone, a place where the Fade cannot be touched?

Can't say for sure, but I think they could. As shown in the DA:O Mage origin, they can cancel out all magic in a small area with the use of special wards and runes. If they put enough of them together, they should be able to seal off large area. Not sure how that would effect the Fade exactly, but in theory it is possible.

Then take that theory, and apply it a person. If enough templars could use maybe a combination of Silence and Cleanse, could it be possible to permanently disrupt/sever/blind a mage to the Fade, without instilling Tranquility?

A pendant with a rune that caused a constant silence/cleanse field around a mage would keep them from casting spells, but now sure if it would keep them out of the fade or not. Would be an interesting experiment to run. A glyph to scribe under a mages bed would be very handy.

That is a smart idea. Maybe, a set of magic binding handcuffs on maleficar or apostates that are not immediately killed?

Heck, why not set up a major glyph under the ground of a major building to negate all magic within?

That may be going too far. If you cancel out magic across an entire city you would prevent such things as what Anders did in DA2, but you would also prevent the use of  healing magic. Something the people of Thedas depend on. Not sure what level their medical knowledge is up to. Would definitely drive up the death rates.

If this type of stuff were possible it should be kept to a personal level. A lyrium symbol carved into a bed post that could allow a mage to sleep without worrying about a demon attacking them in their dreams. Restraints for a mage who has gone to full darkside or for an abomination to give time to exercise the demon.

Everything in moderation. Can see the Chantry or a Templar Garrison having such a glyph under their buildings, but not whole towns or cities.

[Hellion Rex]

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

My question is this: if templars can cleanse an area of ambient magic, could they learn to focus that ability in such a way as to create a magic null zone, a place where the Fade cannot be touched?

Can't say for sure, but I think they could. As shown in the DA:O Mage origin, they can cancel out all magic in a small area with the use of special wards and runes. If they put enough of them together, they should be able to seal off large area. Not sure how that would effect the Fade exactly, but in theory it is possible.

Then take that theory, and apply it a person. If enough templars could use maybe a combination of Silence and Cleanse, could it be possible to permanently disrupt/sever/blind a mage to the Fade, without instilling Tranquility?

A pendant with a rune that caused a constant silence/cleanse field around a mage would keep them from casting spells, but now sure if it would keep them out of the fade or not. Would be an interesting experiment to run. A glyph to scribe under a mages bed would be very handy.

That is a smart idea. Maybe, a set of magic binding handcuffs on maleficar or apostates that are not immediately killed?

Heck, why not set up a major glyph under the ground of a major building to negate all magic within?

That may be going too far. If you cancel out magic across an entire city you would prevent such things as what Anders did in DA2, but you would also prevent the use of  healing magic. Something the people of Thedas depend on. Not sure what level their medical knowledge is up to. Would definitely drive up the death rates.

If this type of stuff were possible it should be kept to a personal level. A lyrium symbol carved into a bed post that could allow a mage to sleep without worrying about a demon attacking them in their dreams. Restraints for a mage who has gone to full darkside or for an abomination to give time to exercise the demon.

Everything in moderation. Can see the Chantry or a Templar Garrison having such a glyph under their buildings, but not whole towns or cities.

When I was talking about a major building, I was only talking about a structure that could be turned into a prison, not seal away magic in an entire city.