1238 réponses à ce sujet

[Bardox9]

eluvianix wrote...

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Bardox9 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

My question is this: if templars can cleanse an area of ambient magic, could they learn to focus that ability in such a way as to create a magic null zone, a place where the Fade cannot be touched?

Can't say for sure, but I think they could. As shown in the DA:O Mage origin, they can cancel out all magic in a small area with the use of special wards and runes. If they put enough of them together, they should be able to seal off large area. Not sure how that would effect the Fade exactly, but in theory it is possible.

Then take that theory, and apply it a person. If enough templars could use maybe a combination of Silence and Cleanse, could it be possible to permanently disrupt/sever/blind a mage to the Fade, without instilling Tranquility?

A pendant with a rune that caused a constant silence/cleanse field around a mage would keep them from casting spells, but now sure if it would keep them out of the fade or not. Would be an interesting experiment to run. A glyph to scribe under a mages bed would be very handy.

That is a smart idea. Maybe, a set of magic binding handcuffs on maleficar or apostates that are not immediately killed?

Heck, why not set up a major glyph under the ground of a major building to negate all magic within?

That may be going too far. If you cancel out magic across an entire city you would prevent such things as what Anders did in DA2, but you would also prevent the use of  healing magic. Something the people of Thedas depend on. Not sure what level their medical knowledge is up to. Would definitely drive up the death rates.

If this type of stuff were possible it should be kept to a personal level. A lyrium symbol carved into a bed post that could allow a mage to sleep without worrying about a demon attacking them in their dreams. Restraints for a mage who has gone to full darkside or for an abomination to give time to exercise the demon.

Everything in moderation. Can see the Chantry or a Templar Garrison having such a glyph under their buildings, but not whole towns or cities.

When I was talking about a major building, I was only talking about a structure that could be turned into a prison, not seal away magic in an entire city.

Ah... read it wrong. I imagine that Aeonar and other such prisons would have to have something like this.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

But the Chantry suppresses, if not outright bans anatomical studies because it's associated with blood magic.  

I've seen this claim several times, but it occurs to me that I can't think of a source for it.  Might you provide?

I bring it up because medieval and Rennaissance anatomical studies had difficulties largely because acquiring corpses was difficult to do legitimately and usually required grave robbing, still today considered immoral and illegal, more than church suppression.  Though at the height of the Black Death the Pope actually encouraged dissection of the dead in the hopes that the disease might be understood and cured.

I provided a source earlier in this thread, but I'll provide it again since it's been awhile.

Here is the wiki page that specifically says it. And here is the in-game item description that is part of the lore that makes it clear that the Chantry bans anatomical studies, or at least suppresses it with severe consequences.

"Fear of blood magic has stigmatized academic dissection, but dedicated scribes keep anatomical works from disappearing. This book allows training that modestly increases the reader's base attributes."

This might just be me, but I don't see the word 'Chantry' being used even once, in the description of the Tome of the Mortal Vessel, And since this Tome is also what the blood magic page use as reference for its claim that the Chantry is responsible..... Well, you see where this is going.

[TEWR]

Well, you see where this is going.

True. In fact, I'll say that one quest in DAO from the Chanter's Board even has you rounding up Corpse Galls for Mages in a Templar's control to study to better combat possessed corpses in the future, after Redcliffe.

So I would say while the Chantry doesn't necessarily ban/suppress it, they don't particularly give it the spotlight enough either.

[HiroVoid]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Well, you see where this is going.

True. In fact, I'll say that one quest in DAO from the Chanter's Board even has you rounding up Corpse Galls for Mages in a Templar's control to study to better combat possessed corpses in the future, after Redcliffe.

So I would say while the Chantry doesn't necessarily ban/suppress it, they don't particularly give it the spotlight enough either.

Or maybe its other places that don't like the use of anatomical studies of it, and the chantry's one of the few organizations actively interested in studying it.

[TEWR]

Perhaps. Really, DA hasn't done much exploration in this regard, when I'd like to see it do more of that.

[HiroVoid]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Perhaps. Really, DA hasn't done much exploration in this regard, when I'd like to see it do more of that.

True.  Orlais is supposed to have a fairly large academy if I remember right, so maybe we'll get more insight into what kinds of studies Thedas is going through and where education is on certain subjects.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

But the Chantry suppresses, if not outright bans anatomical studies because it's associated with blood magic.  

I've seen this claim several times, but it occurs to me that I can't think of a source for it.  Might you provide?

I bring it up because medieval and Rennaissance anatomical studies had difficulties largely because acquiring corpses was difficult to do legitimately and usually required grave robbing, still today considered immoral and illegal, more than church suppression.  Though at the height of the Black Death the Pope actually encouraged dissection of the dead in the hopes that the disease might be understood and cured.

I provided a source earlier in this thread, but I'll provide it again since it's been awhile.

Here is the wiki page that specifically says it. And here is the in-game item description that is part of the lore that makes it clear that the Chantry bans anatomical studies, or at least suppresses it with severe consequences.

"Fear of blood magic has stigmatized academic dissection, but dedicated scribes keep anatomical works from disappearing. This book allows training that modestly increases the reader's base attributes."

This might just be me, but I don't see the word 'Chantry' being used even once, in the description of the Tome of the Mortal Vessel, And since this Tome is also what the blood magic page use as reference for its claim that the Chantry is responsible..... Well, you see where this is going.

And yet the first one says....

"The Chantry has gone to great lengths to ban the use of blood magic,
going so far as to suppress anatomical study and condemning its use even
in the face of severe circumstances."

Unless evidence comes up that disproves this, this is where it stands. On the other hand, I won't be heartbroken or broken up if the devs decide to retcon this since it's quite likely a very, VERY small number of players actually noticed this.

But until that happens, this small piece of information makes it true as there is nothing that contradicts it.

[dragonflight288]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Well, you see where this is going.

True. In fact, I'll say that one quest in DAO from the Chanter's Board even has you rounding up Corpse Galls for Mages in a Templar's control to study to better combat possessed corpses in the future, after Redcliffe.

So I would say while the Chantry doesn't necessarily ban/suppress it, they don't particularly give it the spotlight enough either.

Or maybe they are researching the corpse galls simply because they were possessed by spirits/demons and are looking for better ways to combat spirits. Actually, now that I think about it, I think that's the reason given in the print when you take it from the Chanter's Board.

If so, then kudos to the templars and Chantry.

That doesn't mean the Chantry allows anatomical studies overall, however, since we know that Ferelden is quite a bit more liberal than the other Circles, with Rivain being the only one I know that is more liberal.

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

But the Chantry suppresses, if not outright bans anatomical studies because it's associated with blood magic.  

I've seen this claim several times, but it occurs to me that I can't think of a source for it.  Might you provide?

I bring it up because medieval and Rennaissance anatomical studies had difficulties largely because acquiring corpses was difficult to do legitimately and usually required grave robbing, still today considered immoral and illegal, more than church suppression.  Though at the height of the Black Death the Pope actually encouraged dissection of the dead in the hopes that the disease might be understood and cured.

I provided a source earlier in this thread, but I'll provide it again since it's been awhile.

Here is the wiki page that specifically says it. And here is the in-game item description that is part of the lore that makes it clear that the Chantry bans anatomical studies, or at least suppresses it with severe consequences.

"Fear of blood magic has stigmatized academic dissection, but dedicated scribes keep anatomical works from disappearing. This book allows training that modestly increases the reader's base attributes."

This might just be me, but I don't see the word 'Chantry' being used even once, in the description of the Tome of the Mortal Vessel, And since this Tome is also what the blood magic page use as reference for its claim that the Chantry is responsible..... Well, you see where this is going.

And yet the first one says....

"The Chantry has gone to great lengths to ban the use of blood magic,
going so far as to suppress anatomical study and condemning its use even
in the face of severe circumstances."

Unless evidence comes up that disproves this, this is where it stands. On the other hand, I won't be heartbroken or broken up if the devs decide to retcon this since it's quite likely a very, VERY small number of players actually noticed this.

But until that happens, this small piece of information makes it true as there is nothing that contradicts it.

The problem is that the reference for the Chantry banning anatomical study comes from the description of a tome that could be considered contradictory to to that assertion. Although, the "scribes" mentioned seemed to be very ambiguous and might be opposed to the Chantry's ban.

[dragonflight288]

The problem is that the reference for the Chantry banning anatomical study comes from the description of a tome that could be considered contradictory to to that assertion. Although, the "scribes" mentioned seemed to be very ambiguous and might be opposed to the Chantry's ban.

True. The wiki uses it as a source and specifically says the Chantry does the banning, and nothing in-game contradicts that statement.

It's kind of hard to dismiss or claim something when there is so little evidence overall. There's one source, one, that is easily overlooked, and what the wiki says, and that's all that's said on the matter entirely. If evidence comes out in Inquisition that says otherwise, I will neither complain nor begrudge the devs as there's so little at present.

I'm only saying that based on what little we do have, it's a safe assumption.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The problem is that the reference for the Chantry banning anatomical study comes from the description of a tome that could be considered contradictory to to that assertion. Although, the "scribes" mentioned seemed to be very ambiguous and might be opposed to the Chantry's ban.

True. The wiki uses it as a source and specifically says the Chantry does the banning, and nothing in-game contradicts that statement.

It's kind of hard to dismiss or claim something when there is so little evidence overall. There's one source, one, that is easily overlooked, and what the wiki says, and that's all that's said on the matter entirely. If evidence comes out in Inquisition that says otherwise, I will neither complain nor begrudge the devs as there's so little at present.

I'm only saying that based on what little we do have, it's a safe assumption.

The problem is that the wiki says that the Chantry is the one banning anatomical research when tehre is NOTHING to back this statement up. What it uses as a source for the statement doesn't even mention the Chantry. So it is basically spreading misinformation and can't be trusted.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The problem is that the reference for the Chantry banning anatomical study comes from the description of a tome that could be considered contradictory to to that assertion. Although, the "scribes" mentioned seemed to be very ambiguous and might be opposed to the Chantry's ban.

True. The wiki uses it as a source and specifically says the Chantry does the banning, and nothing in-game contradicts that statement.

It's kind of hard to dismiss or claim something when there is so little evidence overall. There's one source, one, that is easily overlooked, and what the wiki says, and that's all that's said on the matter entirely. If evidence comes out in Inquisition that says otherwise, I will neither complain nor begrudge the devs as there's so little at present.

I'm only saying that based on what little we do have, it's a safe assumption.

The problem is that the wiki says that the Chantry is the one banning anatomical research when tehre is NOTHING to back this statement up. What it uses as a source for the statement doesn't even mention the Chantry. So it is basically spreading misinformation and can't be trusted.

Also true.

But there isn't any evidence (thus far) that contradicts the wiki. Or if there is, I'm unaware of it.

[HiroVoid]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The problem is that the reference for the Chantry banning anatomical study comes from the description of a tome that could be considered contradictory to to that assertion. Although, the "scribes" mentioned seemed to be very ambiguous and might be opposed to the Chantry's ban.

True. The wiki uses it as a source and specifically says the Chantry does the banning, and nothing in-game contradicts that statement.

It's kind of hard to dismiss or claim something when there is so little evidence overall. There's one source, one, that is easily overlooked, and what the wiki says, and that's all that's said on the matter entirely. If evidence comes out in Inquisition that says otherwise, I will neither complain nor begrudge the devs as there's so little at present.

I'm only saying that based on what little we do have, it's a safe assumption.

The problem is that the wiki says that the Chantry is the one banning anatomical research when tehre is NOTHING to back this statement up. What it uses as a source for the statement doesn't even mention the Chantry. So it is basically spreading misinformation and can't be trusted.

Yep.  Unfortunately, the problem with Wikis is any random user can input their interpretation on information they've gathered on sources.  I still remember when someone said there was a better chance of Simon Templeman voicing Loghain in DA:I because it was listed on wikipedia.  Since the statement in the page uses the item as a source of information and the Tome states nowhere that the Chantry is responsible for suppressing anatomical study.  In fact, it simply says a general fear of blood magic is responsible which is a pretty regular fear to have for countries where even World of Thedas had a tevinter mage not being too fond of blood magic and about how more death and such gives blood magic more power.  In fact, to the contrary, we have proof of at least one case where even if the corpse was possessed beforehand of the chantry looking for anatomical study material that could be suspect to blood magic, that the Chantry was openly asking for mercenaries or any questers to help them with the retrieval of galls for study.

[HiroVoid]

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The problem is that the reference for the Chantry banning anatomical study comes from the description of a tome that could be considered contradictory to to that assertion. Although, the "scribes" mentioned seemed to be very ambiguous and might be opposed to the Chantry's ban.

True. The wiki uses it as a source and specifically says the Chantry does the banning, and nothing in-game contradicts that statement.

It's kind of hard to dismiss or claim something when there is so little evidence overall. There's one source, one, that is easily overlooked, and what the wiki says, and that's all that's said on the matter entirely. If evidence comes out in Inquisition that says otherwise, I will neither complain nor begrudge the devs as there's so little at present.

I'm only saying that based on what little we do have, it's a safe assumption.

The problem is that the wiki says that the Chantry is the one banning anatomical research when tehre is NOTHING to back this statement up. What it uses as a source for the statement doesn't even mention the Chantry. So it is basically spreading misinformation and can't be trusted.

Also true.

But there isn't any evidence (thus far) that contradicts the wiki. Or if there is, I'm unaware of it.

The problem is there isn't any evidence FOR what the wiki says which is the big problem in some instances of wikis.  Ultimately, some random user added it in there with their own interpretation.  Since their cited source does not state the Chantry as a source of the suppression, there's no proof of the Chantry suppressing the studies.  In the end, the first evidence needed to throw out for the chantry suppressing studies lays on the first party before people have to prove that the chantry doesn't ban the studies based on shoddy evidence.

[dragonflight288]

But would they take those same corpse galls from the dead who hadn't gotten up and walked around for study?

Does the school of creation study the human (and elven) bodies so they can learn to more effectively heal others?

[HiroVoid]

dragonflight288 wrote...

But would they take those same corpse galls from the dead who hadn't gotten up and walked around for study?

Does the school of creation study the human (and elven) bodies so they can learn to more effectively heal others?

Don't know.  At the moment, I don't have any sources proving otherwise.  I'm not sure the school of creation would really benefit from that anyway rather than general medical studies.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The problem is that the reference for the Chantry banning anatomical study comes from the description of a tome that could be considered contradictory to to that assertion. Although, the "scribes" mentioned seemed to be very ambiguous and might be opposed to the Chantry's ban.

True. The wiki uses it as a source and specifically says the Chantry does the banning, and nothing in-game contradicts that statement.

It's kind of hard to dismiss or claim something when there is so little evidence overall. There's one source, one, that is easily overlooked, and what the wiki says, and that's all that's said on the matter entirely. If evidence comes out in Inquisition that says otherwise, I will neither complain nor begrudge the devs as there's so little at present.

I'm only saying that based on what little we do have, it's a safe assumption.

The problem is that the wiki says that the Chantry is the one banning anatomical research when tehre is NOTHING to back this statement up. What it uses as a source for the statement doesn't even mention the Chantry. So it is basically spreading misinformation and can't be trusted.

Also true.

But there isn't any evidence (thus far) that contradicts the wiki. Or if there is, I'm unaware of it.

As HiroVoid already pointed out, the problem is the alck of evidence to make such a claim to begin with. Right now I could make a claim that you were actually a sentient cat skilled at typing, and since there was no proof to the contrary claim it as fact.
The truth of this matter is that the wiki is spreading misinformation, and someone should really edit that article to better portray the facts of the matter.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The problem is that the reference for the Chantry banning anatomical study comes from the description of a tome that could be considered contradictory to to that assertion. Although, the "scribes" mentioned seemed to be very ambiguous and might be opposed to the Chantry's ban.

True. The wiki uses it as a source and specifically says the Chantry does the banning, and nothing in-game contradicts that statement.

It's kind of hard to dismiss or claim something when there is so little evidence overall. There's one source, one, that is easily overlooked, and what the wiki says, and that's all that's said on the matter entirely. If evidence comes out in Inquisition that says otherwise, I will neither complain nor begrudge the devs as there's so little at present.

I'm only saying that based on what little we do have, it's a safe assumption.

The problem is that the wiki says that the Chantry is the one banning anatomical research when tehre is NOTHING to back this statement up. What it uses as a source for the statement doesn't even mention the Chantry. So it is basically spreading misinformation and can't be trusted.

Also true.

But there isn't any evidence (thus far) that contradicts the wiki. Or if there is, I'm unaware of it.

As HiroVoid already pointed out, the problem is the alck of evidence to make such a claim to begin with. Right now I could make a claim that you were actually a sentient cat skilled at typing, and since there was no proof to the contrary claim it as fact.
The truth of this matter is that the wiki is spreading misinformation, and someone should really edit that article to better portray the facts of the matter.

*shrug* Fair enough.

Until we hear more, I simply won't bring the issue up again since it's simply in the air. As you guys have said, there's a total lack of evidence. I took one source and ran with it, and that was probably a mistake on my part, as I hadn't seen anything that contradicted it, but unless future books or Inquisition makes mention of it, I'll simply put this out of my mind.

[Heimdall]

The actual source on that says anatomical studies are stigmatized because of fear of blood magic.

Frankly, it seems like quite a leap in logic to say the Chantry actively suppresses or bans such studies.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 20 novembre 2013 - 02:54 .

[Heimdall]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The truth of this matter is that the wiki is spreading misinformation, and someone should really edit that article to better portray the facts of the matter.

Done

It now just says fear of blood magic has stigmatized anatomical studies.  Exactly what the item description tells us.  Full stop.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 20 novembre 2013 - 03:08 .

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

I support the total destruction of all circles, mages, Templars, chantries and everything.

let the nobles run things-

he/she who has the gold makes the rules.

[Hellion Rex]

Bluto Blutarskyx wrote...

I support the total destruction of all circles, mages, Templars, chantries and everything.

let the nobles run things-

he/she who has the gold makes the rules.

Haha nope. Mages at the top.

[Lord Raijin]

Bluto Blutarskyx wrote...

I support the total destruction of all circles, mages, Templars, chantries and everything.

let the nobles run things-

he/she who has the gold makes the rules.

If you go by that logic then shouldn't the mages rule Thedas?

He/She who wields the most power (tevinter imperium) makes the rules.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Tevinter isn't the most powerful nation though.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Tevinter isn't the most powerful nation though.

In Andrastian Thedas, I would say that they are, if only because they are still standing after pretty much everyone has hammered at them for centuries, and because they are busy holding off the Qunari.