1238 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


True. This is especially true of DAO, where all of the companions believe Anora betrayed the Warden at the Denerim estate when the Warden betrayed her first. Most people, because the companions are all against Anora, actually have come to believe she did do that when she didn't.

And Asunder made me wanna follow Lambert, if he's leading some Templars, for one DAI run.

Lol i don't know how screwd up logic some peoples follow but she betrayed twice warden was helping her and she kicked him for own convenience twice

Yeah, uh, no. She specifically tells you "I'm in a disguise so my father's people won't discover who I am" and if a Warden is dumb enough to say to Cauthrien, Loghain's right hand woman that you met in Eamon's Estate with Loghain, "Hey, here's Anora!" then you're betraying HER.

Ok, settle down .
Back on topic, shall we?

[TEWR]

eluvianix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yes, the Calling was a book I enjoyed immensely.

How was it in comparison to Asunder? Because I loved Asunder.

Asunder is IMO better, but the Calling comes a close second.

Meh, I found Asunder to be worthwhile, but it certainly wasn't neutral
in its depiction of the conflict. Only people who are already
knowledgable about the pre-existing lore, will find any sort of sympathy
for the Templars in Asunder. A newcomer to the lore will always
sympathize with the mages after reading Asunder. After all, when ALL the
protagonists in a story take one side, you tend to gravitate towards
the same side.

True. This is especially true of DAO, where all of the companions believe Anora betrayed the Warden at the Denerim estate when the Warden betrayed her first. Most people, because the companions are all against Anora, actually have come to believe she did do that when she didn't.

And Asunder made me wanna follow Lambert, if he's leading some Templars, for one DAI run.

***************SPOILERS********************

World of Thedas assumes that he is dead.

*****************SPOILERS

Nah, he's just in a vegetable state in need of magic to help him.

*prays for this, because this idea (Dave of Canada's idea) was awesome*

[Hellion Rex]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yes, the Calling was a book I enjoyed immensely.

How was it in comparison to Asunder? Because I loved Asunder.

Asunder is IMO better, but the Calling comes a close second.

Meh, I found Asunder to be worthwhile, but it certainly wasn't neutral
in its depiction of the conflict. Only people who are already
knowledgable about the pre-existing lore, will find any sort of sympathy
for the Templars in Asunder. A newcomer to the lore will always
sympathize with the mages after reading Asunder. After all, when ALL the
protagonists in a story take one side, you tend to gravitate towards
the same side.

True. This is especially true of DAO, where all of the companions believe Anora betrayed the Warden at the Denerim estate when the Warden betrayed her first. Most people, because the companions are all against Anora, actually have come to believe she did do that when she didn't.

And Asunder made me wanna follow Lambert, if he's leading some Templars, for one DAI run.

***************SPOILERS********************

World of Thedas assumes that he is dead.

*****************SPOILERS

Nah, he's just in a vegetable state in need of magic to help him.

*prays for this, because this idea (Dave of Canada's idea) was awesome*

Nah, Cole just stabbed him to death:wizard:. Jerk had it coming.

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Not all of them do. Meredith is the one who gave the "cancer" line about magic, and I hardly believe that she can represent accurately the Templar order.

Do remember  to whom you're speaking to.  Raijin is to the pro mages as KomodorShepard is to the pro templars.

Hey now:PI am pro mage too. Let us be civil here.

Pro Templars cannot be civil. They would rather silence us by using the Rite of tranqulity on us.

[TEWR]

eluvianix wrote...

Ok, settle down .
Back on topic, shall we?

Yes, by the Paragons I don't want another Loghain/Anora thread going on. Especially since it attracts the people who revel in murdering him in front of Anora and chastise Anora for illogical reasons.

Back on topic. Lambert, awesome. Fiona, awesome. Both of whom I'd gladly follow for the respective sides.

[Skyrunner_Morgan]

The Circles are a place of learning for Mages, I don't think they were ever intended to be turned into prisons by Templars and the Chantry. Both the Circle and the Templar Order need to be reformed.

Andraste said that "Magic exists to serve man and never rule over him" she didn't say that those with magic have to be made prisoners and be treated with disrespect and looked at with fear. If the Templars didn't tighten their grip over the Circles or hunted down mages like animals, then there wouldn't be any apostates to begin with and mages wouldn't result to Blood Magic to defend themselves.

Templars need to hunt down and punish mages that abuse their power to harm others. Not those that just about had it with the treatment and abuses they suffer for most of their lives in the Circle.

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Hey now:PI am pro mage too. Let us be civil here.

I didn't mean anything by it to you.  Just saying those two are the rather extremist sides of each faction.  Not sure how much reason they will listen to.

That is why I find it fun to poke holes in both arguments to demonstrate how this conflict is not as black and white as some pro mage and pro templars make it out to be.

I don't care about morality only about sanity i don't see that as black and white if we bring into that morality conflict it is more blackvsblack morality with templars being lighter shade of black.

I see that way walking end of the world (mages) vs order of incompetent and corrupt fanatics you can guess what is worse for my pc.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 21 novembre 2013 - 04:11 .

[MisterJB]

Lord Raijin wrote...
But nuclear bombs are created and engineered by mundanes to cause mass death of the innocene. So whats your point in using this as an example to blast the mages?

I believe Mr.Gaider himself compared mages to nuclear bombs. This is because they wield similar destructive capabilities. It doesn't matter why they were created; we regulate nukes exactly because, should an accident happen, the consequences would be devastating.
The same applies to mages. Except mages are even more dangerous because, unlike with nukes, they have emotions that can lead them to explode. And then people die.

If the mages were treated as people, as they should, they wouldn't have a reason to use their magic to defend themselves against their jailers.

Do you truly, honestly believe that the only reason any mage anywhere would ever use its powers would be in self defense? Do you truly can't imagine situations where mages would use their powers for their benefits at the expense of others; mages who would see themselves as superior to non-mages; mages who would fall to temptations; mages who would be possessed?
And this despite the great number of mages who have done just that? Opressed or hurt others for reasons entirely unrelated to the templars?

[Dave of Canada]

eluvianix wrote...

***************SPOILERS********************

World of Thedas assumes that he is dead.

*****************SPOILERS

It assumes he's MIA. There's many reasons this can be done.

Cole entered Lambert's corpse, Templar don't want the world to know he's dead, Templar don't want to let the world know he survived, etc.

I'm a big fan of my desire to see him being in a vegetative state and needing magic/blood magic to resuscitate, the irony of the situation would be fantastic.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 21 novembre 2013 - 04:05 .

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
I don't think the majority of mages in southern Thedas believe that they're superior though. 

Maybe, maybe not. Personally, I find it hard to conceive the idea that the great majority of mages wouldn't fancy themselves superior to non-mages given the way humans are.

Ah, understood. I thought that in your first post you were talking about in-game events. 
What you said is plausible, though it doesn't seem to me that they think that way based on what I saw in-game.  We might know more in inquisiton and the next games, based on what happens post-war.

[Cainhurst Crow]

At least pro-templars don't come up with sick ideas like raping demons then putting them inside others to rape them again.

This forum war has destroyed my trust in my fellow man.

[Lord Raijin]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yes, by the Paragons I don't want another Loghain/Anora thread going on. Especially since it attracts the people who revel in murdering him in front of Anora and chastise Anora for illogical reasons.

Back on topic. Lambert, awesome. Fiona, awesome. Both of whom I'd gladly follow for the respective sides.

Lambert is very pro- R.o.T. He is not awesome but a tyrant. He shows no mercy whatsoever.

[TEWR]

I believe Mr.Gaider himself compared mages to nuclear bombs

Which still isn't accurate. Artillery weapons would be more accurate, because it's not like they make a place uninhabitable for decades and decades and decades. And more decades.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lord Raijin wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Dude mages are walking unstable bombs take templars and will explode because of plenty excuses and as is said protecting mages because templars isn't helping pro-mages because peoples who will want kick you always will exist...

I find it hilarious that each mage that I've encountered, or have read, had a valid reason to act the way they did, and guess what? All of them complained about mistreatment of the Chantry and the Templars.

I the mages are truly ticking time bombs... it is because they were push to be one by their jailers.

whether they have valid reason to go into rampage slaying everything on their path is up to you i prefer foucus on that they go into rampage slaying everything instead why they do that because we have massive number excuses for question why.

[MisterJB]

The most honorable Lord Seeker Lambert is merely commanding the defense of Thedas by the Holy Templar Order from the shadows and will soon reveal himself and come down upon the head of the rebellious maleficars and the demons from the Fade like the fist of the Maker Himself.
You have been warned.

[The Elder King]

From what you guys said about them, I doubt I'd want to follow either Fiona or Lambert, at least with my canon character.
Though I'd still consider them better than the terrific duo in DA2.

Modifié par hhh89, 21 novembre 2013 - 04:11 .

[MisterJB]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I believe Mr.Gaider himself compared mages to nuclear bombs

Which still isn't accurate. Artillery weapons would be more accurate, because it's not like they make a place uninhabitable for decades and decades and decades. And more decades.

The Baroness.

[Lord Raijin]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

At least pro-templars don't come up with sick ideas like raping demons then putting them inside others to rape them again.

This forum war has destroyed my trust in my fellow man.

Makers breath! Where did you read this pro-templars propaganda from?

[TEWR]

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yes, by the Paragons I don't want another Loghain/Anora thread going on. Especially since it attracts the people who revel in murdering him in front of Anora and chastise Anora for illogical reasons.

Back on topic. Lambert, awesome. Fiona, awesome. Both of whom I'd gladly follow for the respective sides.

Lambert is very pro- R.o.T. He is not awesome but a tyrant. He shows no mercy whatsoever.

Lambert's only pro-R.o.T in the sense that it's used as a way to keep weak mages safe, from themselves and others. Now, I don't think the RoT is fine as is and I don't think Lambert's the best guy out there, but the man was willing to go for some slow, modest research into better RoT when things settled down.

And I'll say two things: Being Tranquil is just as dangerous as not being Tranquil. One has a person following pure logic (dangerous road) and the other just has them being Mages in general. Worse, Pharamond was experiencing more emotional outbursts, though I think reapplying the RoT was the wrong call after hearing how he described it, like a dream you can never wake from and all that.

I agree with Adrian that death was definitely better, because the man didn't have to endure all that again. I can understand the hesitance to allowing Tranquil to be back to their old self with that reaction, because of the threat.

That is, of course, assuming it's something inherent to all Tranquil and not a result of Pharamond's possession. However, I'm quick to assume it is indeed the former, as being without emotions for so long would lead to an overflow. It's like a dam was built.

[TEWR]

MisterJB wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I believe Mr.Gaider himself compared mages to nuclear bombs

Which still isn't accurate. Artillery weapons would be more accurate, because it's not like they make a place uninhabitable for decades and decades and decades. And more decades.

The Baroness.

The Blackmarsh is habitable. People just didn't want to live there.

[The Elder King]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

At least pro-templars don't come up with sick ideas like raping demons then putting them inside others to rape them again.

This forum war has destroyed my trust in my fellow man.

Makers breath! Where did you read this pro-templars propaganda from?

If you think that some pro-mages don't have idiotic (to be kind) idea, you haven't read much in this forum. As there are pro-templars on the same level.

[MisterJB]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
The Blackmarsh is habitable. People just didn't want to live there.

The two people who occupied her castle on different occasion died shortly after. That makes it unhabitable.

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
I don't think the majority of mages in southern Thedas believe that they're superior though. 

Maybe, maybe not. Personally, I find it hard to conceive the idea that the great majority of mages wouldn't fancy themselves superior to non-mages given the way humans are.

I find that assertion somewhat untrue, IMO.

Let's be realistic here. If you were born with the pletora of magical abilities in both games; which would include firestorm, walking bomb, blood slave, demon summoning; would you really think of yourself as equal to those who weren't?

[TEWR]

MisterJB wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
The Blackmarsh is habitable. People just didn't want to live there.

The two people who occupied her castle on different occasion died shortly after. That makes it unhabitable.

Superstitious nonsense. That they believe it's still haunted by her doesn't mean it is.

[Br3admax]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

At least pro-templars don't come up with sick ideas like raping demons then putting them inside others to rape them again.

This forum war has destroyed my trust in my fellow man.

Makers breath! Where did you read this pro-templars propaganda from?

Xil is the exact opposite of a pro-Templar.