1238 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Raijin]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I just have a few really simple questions to people who are against the Circle.

Do you feel it is really responsible to allow mages to roam free and do exactly as they please? If yes, why?

I'm against the current Circle system (or was) that is being run by the Chantry. I do not support the idea of mages being viewed as prisoners for a crime that they were born with; having magical talents. That is not a valid excuse to imprison someone.

I support the Circle only as an educational source for non-mages parents who have children with magical talents, and for grown adults who sought a safe haven to learn more about the gift that was given to them by the Maker. Mundanes shouldn't have to hide their mage child fearing that they will never see them again. To me that is a failed system all together and it will definitely not work out, as we clearly see.

Even the Libertarians aren't against the Circle... just wanting it to become an autonomous.

[AresKeith]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

*sigh* here we go again.

I'll make the call.

Who you gonna call?

Mage Busters 

[GreyLycanTrope]

spirosz wrote...

I support your mom's circle.

I appricates that. Good woman me mum, she'll have the mage/templar matter sorted out in no time.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 22 novembre 2013 - 02:50 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I just have a few really simple questions to people who are against the Circle.

Do you feel it is really responsible to allow mages to roam free and do exactly as they please? If yes, why?

I'm against the current Circle system (or was) that is being run by the Chantry. I do not support the idea of mages being viewed as prisoners for a crime that they were born with; having magical talents. That is not a valid excuse to imprison someone.

I support the Circle only as an educational source for non-mages parents who have children with magical talents, and for grown adults who sought a safe haven to learn more about the gift that was given to them by the Maker. Mundanes shouldn't have to hide their mage child fearing that they will never see them again. To me that is a failed system all together and it will definitely not work out, as we clearly see.

Even the Libertarians aren't against the Circle... just wanting it to become an autonomous.

I thought they just wanted to blow stuff up. Seems to be their main answer for everything.

[AresKeith]

Greylycantrope wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I support your mom's circle.

I appricates that. Good woman me mum, she'll have the mage/templar matter sorted out in no time.

Bloody pirates

[Cainhurst Crow]

Hopefully not in more ways then one, AmIRite?

[The Hierophant]

Please. There's nothing subjective about the dangers mages present to Thedosian society, while despite the RoA being abused it's main purpose is as a last ditch effort for containment.

The comparisons are so flimsy that the US gov could easily fall under them for it's treatment of the Japanese Americans during WW2, and the indigenous people of NA.

Hitler and his party's beliefs were steeped in eugenics, and supremacy while the Templars are the polar opposite. The comparisons only go so far when one stops to consider that one party advocates containment, and security while the other is for full on extermination of people they view as inferior.

It borders on disrespect to the victims, and survivors of the Holocaust when someone makes flimsy comparisons to the Third Reich between governments, people or factions they don't like. Especially when trying to win an argument on the internet of all places.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 22 novembre 2013 - 02:58 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Hitler Card is not supposed to stand up to scrutiny! How dare you poke holes in their flawless play of the card!!

Anyway, I think the majority of the people here on BSN agrees taht the Circle is a good thing, but that it needs to change. It is however what kind of change that is necessary which is causing much of the debate.
Only a select few are actually arguing for the complete abolishment of the Circle, or that it is perfectly fine as it is.

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Hitler Card is not supposed to stand up to scrutiny! How dare you poke holes in their flawless play of the card!!

Anyway, I think the majority of the people here on BSN agrees taht the Circle is a good thing, but that it needs to change. It is however what kind of change that is necessary which is causing much of the debate.
Only a select few are actually arguing for the complete abolishment of the Circle, or that it is perfectly fine as it is.

I don't agree simple because circle is ****ty work and magic still deliver huge destruction templar are incompetent and do bad job preventing mages go into rampage second if we set anti-magical faction don't make that waste time to imprison mages giving them absolute power because it leads to that what we have now instead new anti-magical faction would exterminate mages which is much more practical and instead being lazy bastards who waste time "watching mages" they could focus on hunting mages removing danger of mages almost entirely.

So you can tell me that circle is "good" but it isn't in case simple almost every dragon age shows that circle limp morally as well like practically doing bad job so better go for best solution.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 22 novembre 2013 - 03:30 .

[AresKeith]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Hitler Card is not supposed to stand up to scrutiny! How dare you poke holes in their flawless play of the card!!

Anyway, I think the majority of the people here on BSN agrees taht the Circle is a good thing, but that it needs to change. It is however what kind of change that is necessary which is causing much of the debate.
Only a select few are actually arguing for the complete abolishment of the Circle, or that it is perfectly fine as it is.

I don't agree simple because circle is ****ty work and magic still deliver huge destruction templar are incompetent and do bad job preventing mages go into rampage second if we set anti-magical faction don't make that waste time to imprison mages giving them absolute power because it leads to that what we have now instead new anti-magical faction would exterminate mages which is much more practical and instead being lazy bastards who waste time "watching mages" they could focus on hunting mages removing danger of mages almost entirely.

So you can tell me that circle is "good" but it isn't in case simple almost every dragon age shows that circle limp morally as well like practically doing bad job so better go for best solution.

He also said that it needs to be changed/reformed

Also the Ferelden Circle was going decent except that one incident that caused by a Blood Mage

Modifié par AresKeith, 22 novembre 2013 - 03:40 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Hitler Card is not supposed to stand up to scrutiny! How dare you poke holes in their flawless play of the card!!

Anyway, I think the majority of the people here on BSN agrees taht the Circle is a good thing, but that it needs to change. It is however what kind of change that is necessary which is causing much of the debate.
Only a select few are actually arguing for the complete abolishment of the Circle, or that it is perfectly fine as it is.

I don't agree simple because circle is ****ty work and magic still deliver huge destruction templar are incompetent and do bad job preventing mages go into rampage second if we set anti-magical faction don't make that waste time to imprison mages giving them absolute power because it leads to that what we have now instead new anti-magical faction would exterminate mages which is much more practical and instead being lazy bastards who waste time "watching mages" they could focus on hunting mages removing danger of mages almost entirely.

So you can tell me that circle is "good" but it isn't in case simple almost every dragon age shows that circle limp morally as well like practically doing bad job so better go for best solution.

And why would I ever even want to attempt to try to ever have a decent conversation with a person such as you with such a deeply pessimistic, irrational, cynical, and anti-social point of view?

You believe that everybody is a dick. And that is all fine and dandy. You however also believe that what you preach is an absolute truth, and therefore you show that you have absolutely no desire to actually debate anything, so why again should any of us even bother acknowledging you? You aren't exactly stimulating debates and conversations by making statements such as those.

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Hitler Card is not supposed to stand up to scrutiny! How dare you poke holes in their flawless play of the card!!

Anyway, I think the majority of the people here on BSN agrees taht the Circle is a good thing, but that it needs to change. It is however what kind of change that is necessary which is causing much of the debate.
Only a select few are actually arguing for the complete abolishment of the Circle, or that it is perfectly fine as it is.

I don't agree simple because circle is ****ty work and magic still deliver huge destruction templar are incompetent and do bad job preventing mages go into rampage second if we set anti-magical faction don't make that waste time to imprison mages giving them absolute power because it leads to that what we have now instead new anti-magical faction would exterminate mages which is much more practical and instead being lazy bastards who waste time "watching mages" they could focus on hunting mages removing danger of mages almost entirely.

So you can tell me that circle is "good" but it isn't in case simple almost every dragon age shows that circle limp morally as well like practically doing bad job so better go for best solution.

And why would I ever even want to attempt to try to ever have a decent conversation with a person such as you with such a deeply pessimistic, irrational, cynical, and anti-social point of view?

You believe that everybody is a dick. And that is all fine and dandy. You however also believe that what you preach is an absolute truth, and therefore you show that you have absolutely no desire to actually debate anything, so why again should any of us even bother acknowledging you? You aren't exactly stimulating debates and conversations by making statements such as those.

Yes because everyone is and even if they aren't mages simple must be put down if you want or not circles are doing bad job and every dragon age product shows that in one way or another every society is built on sacrifices but let walking nuclear bomb live is just stupid and it is truth whether you like it or not these are facts and stating the obvious.Simple debates about that conflict is bi*** about that same or very little different way treatment of mages that was tried already and lead to situation that we have in inquisition or failed before what i bring well i bring easiest and simple solution that solves problem mages won't suffer and non-mages as well (well second will suffer as in real life but at least we don't have nuclear bomb around).    

Simple my solution is better when it comes about jobe being done if you want argue about moral side my solution please that should be interesting from guy that supports "necessary evil" as long that is convenient;)

[Plaintiff]

The Hierophant wrote...
The comparisons are so flimsy that the US gov could easily fall under them for it's treatment of the Japanese Americans during WW2, and the indigenous people of NA.

Instances of bigotry can be compared to other instances of bigotry? Now this is a revelation.

Exactly what point are you making here? Other than that the history of America is also rife with gross abuses?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 22 novembre 2013 - 07:57 .

[Hellion Rex]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...
The comparisons are so flimsy that the US gov could easily fall under them for it's treatment of the Japanese Americans during WW2, and the indigenous people of NA.

Instances of bigotry can be compared to other instances of bigotry? Now this is a revelation.

Exactly what point are you making here? Other than that the history of America is also rife with gross abuses?

Perhaps it is but the scale, the depth of the abuse, that they find hard to comprehend. I will agree that your comparison of Japanese Americans is very apt, and one I have rarely seen here on the BSN.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The point that you have no idea about history or how comparisons work?

Mages are segregated because they are PROVENLY dangerous - for both their safety and the safety of others. This is no false prejudice or some instance of bigotry.

Also:

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The point that you have no idea about history or how comparisons work?

Mages are segregated because they are PROVENLY dangerous - for both their safety and the safety of others. This is no false prejudice or some instance of bigotry.

We do not deny that mages are dangerous, but you can hardly expect people not to resent being locked up in a Tower their whole lives. A gilded cage is still a cage.

[KainD]

@Lotion Soronnar

You are a person the orders of which both the kings and the chantry obey. You want to solve the Templar/Mage conflict - go:

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The point that you have no idea about history or how comparisons work?

Mages are segregated because they are PROVENLY dangerous - for both their safety and the safety of others. This is no false prejudice or some instance of bigotry.

We do not deny that mages are dangerous, but you can hardly expect people not to resent being locked up in a Tower their whole lives. A gilded cage is still a cage.

agree and thats first sane argument but mages brought that on themselves

[KainD]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

agree and thats first sane argument but mages brought that on themselves

Just like Adam and Eve made every single human into a sinner in modern christianity.

[HiroVoid]

Yeah....the politics and religious discussion I think is what the Bioware mod meant to stay out of.

[Lotion Soronarr]

eluvianix wrote...
We do not deny that mages are dangerous, but you can hardly expect people not to resent being locked up in a Tower their whole lives. A gilded cage is still a cage.

They can resent it all they want.
It won't change their nature. They cannot have the exact same lives as everyone else, because they are not like everyone else.

Also, it's not for their whole lives. Proven mages can frequently go out.

KainD wrote...

You are a person the orders of which both the kings and the chantry obey. You want to solve the Templar/Mage conflict - go:

You want me to solve a problem that has no perfect solution? I can try.

Well, Justinias conclave was a good first step. Discuss changes with the mages. See what they resent hte most, see what can be reasonably changed. Test a change in a single circle for some time, and if it workd, start SLOWLY applying it more broadly.

If all else fails, ship all mages and most templars to a large island. Let them build a mage town there and live as they like - as long as they stay there and allow templars stationed all over town, patroling for magic misuse.

If that fails - a global RoA.

[Cainhurst Crow]

For the love of all things innocent wnd pure, let it endalready. Let this stupid ideology war just end.

How would I solve it? Rocks fall, everyone died. Its the ending this war both needs and deserves.

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
We do not deny that mages are dangerous, but you can hardly expect people not to resent being locked up in a Tower their whole lives. A gilded cage is still a cage.

They can resent it all they want.
It won't change their nature. They cannot have the exact same lives as everyone else, because they are not like everyone else.

Also, it's not for their whole lives. Proven mages can frequently go out.

KainD wrote...

You are a person the orders of which both the kings and the chantry obey. You want to solve the Templar/Mage conflict - go:

You want me to solve a problem that has no perfect solution? I can try.

Well, Justinias conclave was a good first step. Discuss changes with the mages. See what they resent hte most, see what can be reasonably changed. Test a change in a single circle for some time, and if it workd, start SLOWLY applying it more broadly.

If all else fails, ship all mages and most templars to a large island. Let them build a mage town there and live as they like - as long as they stay there and allow templars stationed all over town, patroling for magic misuse.

If that fails - a global RoA.

Ship them all to an island? I guarantee you that the majority would fight you until the very end.

Kill all mages? You would have even bigger Veil tears from all this carnage and magic overuse

[KainD]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You want me to solve a problem that has no perfect solution?

Nah, I just want to see where you are coming from. 

And one final question - if you personally were a mage, what would you do?
If you were a regular mage? If you were a mage to whom again both kings and the chantry listen to? Any changes?